The official Oranje thread ***Spoilers***

[Elzavo]

The place for discussions and news concerning The Netherlands NT :cool:.


http://members.upc.nl/i.vantoor/sigs/dutchNT.jpg


#1 Current squad (updated 09-09-2011):

nr.[pos][club]----------------------------age goals caps

Keepers (3):
01.[K2][Swansea City] Michel Vorm ------------27--00--07
16.[K3][Newcastle United] Tim Krul -----------23--00--02

Defense (7):
02.[RB][Ajax] Gregory van der Wiel -----------23--00--26
04.[CB][Malaga] Joris Mathijsen --------------31--03--74
05.[LB][PSV] Erik Pieters --------------------23--00--12
12.[RB][VfB Stuttgart] Khalid Boulahrouz -----29--00--33
13.[LB][Hoffenheim] Edson Braafheid ----------28--00--08
xx.[CB][HSV] Jeffrey Bruma -------------------19--00--02
xx.[CB][Feyenoord] Ron Vlaar -----------------26--00--04

Midfield (6):
05.[DM][Manchester City] Nigel de Jong -------26--01--54
06.[DM][AC Milan] Mark van Bommel ------------34--10--70
08.[DM][PSV] Kevin Strootman -----------------21--01--06
10.[AM][Tottenham] Rafael van der Vaart ------28--17--90
18.[DM][Sporting Lisbon] Stijn Schaars -------27--00--15
15.[AM][PSV] Georginio Wijnaldum -------------20--01--01

Attack (7):
18.[ST][FC Twente] Luuk de Jong --------------21--01--03
11.[RW][Liverpool] Dirk Kuijt ----------------31--23--80
19.[RW][PSV] Jeremain Lens -------------------23--01--04
07.[ST][Arsenal] Robin van Persie ------------28--25--58
09.[ST][Schalke 04] Klaas-Jan Huntelaar ------28--28--46
17.[LW][Juventus] Eljero Elia ----------------24--02--24

****************
Injuries:

[+][K1][AS Roma] Maarten Stekelenburg --------28--00--42
[+][AM] Wesley Sneijder ---------27--23--78
[+][CB][Everton] John Heitinga ---------------27--07--72
[+][RW] Arjen Robben ---------27--15--[B]53
[+][LW][FC Barcelona] Ibrahim Afellay --------25--03--36
[+][DM][Valencia] Hedwiges Maduro ------------26--00--18


****************
Other recent call-ups:

xx.[LB][AC Milan] Urby Emanuelson ------------25--00--14
xx.[LB][Ajax] Vurnon Anita -------------------22--00--03
xx.[DM][Spartak Moscow] Demy de Zeeuw---------28--00--27
xx.[AM][Everton] Royston Drenthe -------------24--00--01
xx.[ST][Malaga] Ruud van Nistelrooy ----------35--35--70
xx.[LW][Hoffenheim] Ryan Babel----------------24--05--40
xx.[AM][Ajax] Theo Janssen -------------------30--00--05




#[I]2 Thrilling WC2010 promo:

v/4B9es3EGhio


#3 NOS TV up-to-date videos about the WC (Dutch) (http://nos.nl/wk2010/video-en-audio/).

[flancrest]

Question for the Dutchies:

I'm an American, who will be in Amsterdam for the first week of the WC. I have a RvN Dutch NT shirt. Should I wear it? I'll be rooting for the Dutch as my "second team," but don't want to be a bandwagoning asshole.

[Elzavo]

Yeah why not? It's always nice to see foreigners wearing orange.
Hell, we even tolerate bandwagoning assholes :D.

[Elzavo]

Injury update:

*Khalid Boulahrouz has suffered an ankle sprain in training on Tuesday. It doesn't appear to be very serious. [+ (http://www.vi.nl/WK-Nieuws-item/181467/Boulahrouz-breekt-training-af-vanwege-enkelblessure.htm)]

*Physiotherapist van Toorn expects Robben to be 'fit' for the Denmark game. [+ (http://nos.nl/wk2010/artikel/162649-robben-verwacht-snel-hereniging.html)]

[Elzavo]

Looks like I'm talking to myself here :rolleyes:.

Anyway, great news on Robben:
Van Toorn: Robben fit to face Danes.[VI (http://www.vi.nl/WK-Nieuws-item/181588/Van-Toorn-Robben-kan-spelen-tegen-Denemarken.htm)][Skysports (http://www.skysports.com/football/world-cup-2010/story/0,27032,12021_6199766,00.html)]

He won't get any minutes though, too risky.

[fcb_sandy05]

Looks like I'm talking to myself here :rolleyes:.


Loser :p

I had posted this link (http://timhi.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/dutch-world-cup2010/) in the Group E thread. It's a decent analysis of the team tactics (albeit based mainly on the Hungary game) and I've been commenting on that site regarding the fullbacks and De Jong's role as a DM.

Denmark game should be interesting but I fully expect a win by 1 or 2 goals. Their main source of creativity comes from the flanks and the pace of the wingers could cause some problems for GvB but because their CM's are fairly limited players, De Jong can probably float to the left to help out.

On a very dull side note, a lot of their players play or have played in the Eredivisie (Rommedahl, Eriksen, Jon Dahl, Poulsen etc). Also, Bendtner is expected to start.

[Elzavo]

WTF? Another post!!! :D

Yeah I read it. Like you said I think it's more an analysis of the friendy Hungary game, which is a little shortsighted, but nonetheless it's a good read with an interesting insight in our tactics.

My guess is also a 2-1, perhaps a 2-0. there are a lot of uncertainties concerning the ball, our defense, their offense, the vuvuzela's :), but I'm sure we will win.

[SteffNL]

Anyone going to create video's by themselves about the Dutch matches? NOS is doing a great job each year to produce some recap with little commentary and good music.

Good luck today! Anyone here going to Amsterdam or Rotterdam?

[Blitzkrieg]

Good luck boys!

Rooting for you along with Brazil!

[fcb_sandy05]

At the end of round 1, given the paucity of goals and how the other big names (Germany aside) have performed, that 2-0 against a stubborn Danish side looks ever better.

[fcb_sandy05]

Double post but this article is worth a read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jun/18/holland-football-future

[Elzavo]

Double post but this article is worth a read.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jun/18/holland-football-future

Thanks for the link, promising prospect :cool:.

[smilingtears87]

Oranje Rules...!

M from India, but love the team..!

[fcb_sandy05]

Van Der Vaart is injured and might not start against Slovakia. It's probably a good thing. Afellay or Elia to come in. Hopefully it'll be Afellay.

[footnboot]

well done vs brazil

snieder had a damn fine game

[Dynamite Dutch]

Oranje will be OK till 2014, after that we're totally screwed. I predict a deep valley like we had in 1982-1986.

We have zero world class talent coming through the ranks. Strootman, de Vrij, Afellay and de Jong brothers (Siem & Luukinho) only come to mind. And neither Strootman nor deJong bros. are IMO good enough talents to play for any big EPL, Liga or Italian clubs. At least not right now

Our only hope is sometimes our best talent seems to come out of nowhere (Jaap Stam, Ruud just to mention a few).

I do worry a bit :o

[fcb_sandy05]

Yeah. The best players in the Eredivisie are almost all foreigners (Ruiz,Dzudzsak etc) and so are the most promising ones (Eriksen, Alderwiereld,Vertonghen etc). You could even make the case that Belgium's future looks brighter.

That article I had posted a few posts up lists many of the talented guys coming through but it'll be a while before they're ready and obviously not all of them will make it - especially the ones who go to England.

What do you guys think of Janssen by the way? I think it could be useful to have him in the midfield two behind Robben, Sneijder & Co.He can defend and attack fairly well. Not world class but still effective.Played vs Austria this year no?
I know VdV has been playing that role but I'm not convinced that's a good position for him. You need to run a lot there and that's definitely not one of VdV's strenght.

[Dynamite Dutch]

Jannsen could easily start for Oranje but he's not the youngest anymore (turns 30 this summer), thats his drawback. By the time WC'14 comes around he might be over the hill.

And you're right about teenage players going to England, thats the worst way to develop them IMO. Just look at vAanholt, Bruma, de Ridder...etc, they're going nowhere right now

[robdogj]

And you're right about teenage players going to England, thats the worst way to develop them IMO. Just look at van Aanholt, Bruma...

Disagree w/ you there mate. Yes I am trolling, but I want to say that PvA is the real deal. Also I like what I see in Bruma. Wish Chelsea gaffer gave them more props. PvA scored a couple of weeks ago & Bruma is receiving a lot more playing time. Ok I know it's the Coca Cola Championship, but it's still a good league for these two young talents to get some experience.

[fcb_sandy05]

Disagree w/ you there mate. Yes I am trolling, but I want to say that PvA is the real deal. Also I like what I see in Bruma. Wish Chelsea gaffer gave them more props. PvA scored a couple of weeks ago & Bruma is receiving a lot more playing time. Ok I know it's the Coca Cola Championship, but it's still a good league for these two young talents to get some experience.
But you've said it yourself - They're playing in the Championship where the standard is lower and the facilities aren't always great They could have been playing in the Eredivisie and maybe even in the CL/EL. Feyenoord, for example, right now has a bunch of teenagers in the 1st team.

There are problems in the Dutch league and sometimes the clubs don't do a better job of blooding youngsters but they're better than Chelsea.

Can't argue with the guys who make the move though. It's a huge pay increase.

[Dynamite Dutch]

Disagree w/ you there mate. Yes I am trolling, but I want to say that PvA is the real deal. Also I like what I see in Bruma
Dont get me wrong, I'm not disputing their talent. But playing in Championship is not gonna develop them as well compared to playing in our Dutch mickey mouse league. If there's one thing Dutch league is perfect for is developing talent so that after a few years they're good enough for top 4 Euro leagues.

Ever wonder why Romario and Ronaldo chose NL before they went to better clubs??

PvA scored a couple of weeks ago & Bruma is receiving a lot more playing time
I hope you're right and I'm wrong when it comes to these 2 defenders, time will tell ;)

[robdogj]

Hey just a couple of more things. Both Bruma & PvA received Champion's League action this season w/ Chelsea. IMHO, these guys are receiving excellent training w/ Chelsea. In fact PvA has been under the wing of Ashley Cole & his rifle shooting has greatly improved ;) No seriously PvA is the real deal. I am one that wishes he received more time in Chelsea Blue. Bruma, is struggling to receive Don Carlo's approval & the recent signing of David Luiz could hurt his development.

[Dynamite Dutch]

Oranje will be OK till 2014, after that we're totally screwed. I predict a deep valley like we had in 1982-1986.

We have zero world class talent coming through the ranks. Strootman, de Vrij, Afellay and de Jong brothers (Siem & Luukinho) only come to mind
Let me add Castaignos and Wijnaldum to that list. They are excellent talents (especially Wijnaldum)

[robdogj]

Not sure if you guys discussed this or not, but Bruma registered a brace today in Leicester City's 4-2 win over Watford (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=293718&cc=5901). I heard he scored one from 30 yards. Looking for videos of this. If I find one online, I will post it here. Oh yea, PvA played the full 90.

[gumby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Eu6s5YFTY

i belive this might be the goal

[robdogj]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Eu6s5YFTY

i belive this might be the goal

Thanks for that http://www.fbtz.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

You can check to see if you can the match highlights as well from the Football League show:

http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177846
http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177828

[Elzavo]

Scoring a goal is always nice of course but what about his defensive abilities/progression? That's what is needed in our NT. Especcially a LB.

So we have the following prospects:

Keepers:
Krul [K]

Defense:
Bruma [CB],
de Vrij [CB],
van Aanholt [LB]

Midfield:
Fer [DM],
Strootman [AM/DM],
Wijnaldum [AM].
S. de Jong [AM/ST]

Attack:
L. de Jong [ST]
Castaignos [ST]


What do you guys think of Ozbiliz and Ebecilio (the Ajax wingers who both have just extended their contracts)? Do they have potential? I don't watch Ajax games frequently so I have no idea.

[gumby]

cant see them world class imo . also in the striking department there is Ricky van Wolfswinkel who is having a pretty good season for utrect i belive .

[gumby]

other names that come to mind are bas dost ,ola john and dirk marcellis so i still think there is enough depth there to still be around the top for the long term if u include afellay.

[Dynamite Dutch]

cant see them world class imo . also in the striking department there is Ricky van Wolfswinkel who is having a pretty good season for utrect i belive
Unless Ricky goes on a major steroid diet he is too light-weight to ever play for the big clubs

other names that come to mind are bas dost ,ola john and dirk marcellis so i still think there is enough depth there to still be around the top for the long term if u include afellay
Marcellis is ok, nothing special. He even had a hard time holding a starting spot for a while. Dost might become very good finisher but he needs to transfer to a better club next season.

Afellay still has to prove himself at Barca, and rumors of him being sold this summer arent helping matters

[gumby]

I would perfer if afellay does get sold to be honest so they he will get more starting time for a different club.

Good to see holland under 17s start of with a good result v germany a few good players there looks to be in that side which could be good in about four or five years ebecilo hade a pretty good match and looks like a very good talent for the future.

[Elzavo]

Our U17 kids have reached the EC final (http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/200306/Sterk-Oranje-Onder17-plaatst-zich-voor-finale-EK.htm) (next Sunday vs. ze Germans). Excellent job!

[Elzavo]

U17 EC Final: Netherlands - Germany: 5-2 (http://en.uefa.com/under17/matches/season=2011/round=2000075/match=2008043/postmatch/report/index.html#netherlands+five+past+germany+u17+title ).

Great game and what a talented side this is. I can definitely see some of them reaching the top level in the near future.

[Dynamite Dutch]

Oranje will be OK till 2014, after that we're totally screwed. I predict a deep valley like we had in 1982-1986.

We have zero world class talent coming through the ranks. Strootman, de Vrij, Afellay and de Jong brothers (Siem & Luukinho) only come to mind. And neither Strootman nor deJong bros. are IMO good enough talents to play for any big EPL, Liga or Italian clubs. At least not right now

Our only hope is sometimes our best talent seems to come out of nowhere (Jaap Stam, Ruud just to mention a few).

I do worry a bit :o
Wik Kieft apparently agrees with me: http://voetbalzone.nl/doc.asp?uid=147113

I'm still optimistic Oranje will have world class talent appearing out of nowhere, but as it stands now these players better hurry up and arrive soon

'Zie nog steeds geen nieuwe Sneijder of Robben, het is allemaal degelijk'

Het Nederlands elftal is een van de sterkste voetballanden van de wereld en zal gezien de gemiddelde leeftijd van de Oranje-internationals en de aanwezige kwaliteit waarschijnlijk hoge ogen gooien op het EK van 2012 en het WK van 2014. Oud-international Wim Kieft voorspelt echter 'een moeilijk verhaal' richting het EK van 2016. De oud-aanvaller vraagt zich af wie bepalende spelers als Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben, Rafael van der Vaart en Robin van Persie moet opvolgen. "Het is allemaal wel degelijk, maar extra kwaliteit…"

"Zonder pessimistisch te zijn zie ik de opvolgers niet zo één, twee, drie", vertelt Kieft zaterdag in De Telegraaf. "Vanzelfsprekend weet ik dat spelers van Jong Oranje een hele ontwikkeling kunnen doormaken de komende jaren. Het is een moeilijke leeftijd waarbij grilligheid troef is. Bij hun club lopen ze vaak mee aan de hand van een routinier, maar bij Jong Oranje moeten ze alles zelf doen. Dan gaat er weleens iets fout en dat is op zich niet erg. Maar als je daardoorheen kijkt, zie ik nog steeds geen nieuwe Sneijder of Robben. Zij waren op hun achttiende al beslissend bij hun club en Oranje. Dan kan er nog veel fout gaan in een carrière, maar toen zag je al dat ze de kwaliteiten bezaten om het verschil te maken.

"Hun aanwezigheid bepaalt of het Nederlands elftal strandt in de kwartfinale of in de halve finale, finale of een Europees of mondiaal toernooi wint." Kieft mist extra kwaliteiten in de lichtingen eronder. "Misschien een Georginio Wijnaldum of een Jerson Cabral, maar verder….. Leroy Fer is een geweldige speler, maar het verschil maken, is een ander verhaal. Jeremain Lens, Eljero Elia, Luciano Narsingh en Ola John zijn goede spelers, maar op het hoogste niveau beslissend zijn, is een ander verhaal. Luuk de Jong? Hij heeft de afgelopen twee jaar een enorme ontwikkeling doorgemaakt, maar het niveau Van Persie of Robben? Dat is toch iets anders."

[Elzavo]

All bollocks, and Wim Kieft is a moron :p. Barely two months later we can add two new talents to the list: Maher and Boerrigter.

Talents like these will keep coming in the next few years, and one or two of them will be the robben/sneijder/persie segment.

And what about the recent performances of Krul, van Wolfswinkel, Luuk de Jong and Strootman?

No need to worry at all.

[Whoah10115]

You need to work out the center of defense. Heitinga has to remember he can be great and you have to remind him...shout out that he needs to leave Everton right now. And you have to find a suitable partner for him...and if you're playing 4-3-3 then Sneijder and VDV have to be playing together and it's gotta be worked out.


I think you're going to win Euro Cup...it's just a matter of fixing those things.

[Dynamite Dutch]

All bollocks, and Wim Kieft is a moron :p. Barely two months later we can add two new talents to the list: Maher and Boerrigter.

Talents like these will keep coming in the next few years, and one or two of them will be the robben/sneijder/persie segment.

And what about the recent performances of Krul, van Wolfswinkel, Luuk de Jong and Strootman?

No need to worry at all.
It might be a bit too early but perhaps we can add 18-year old Klaassen to that list.

Barely on for a few minutes and calmly tucks home the 3-0: http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/211707/Klaassen-Kom-bij-een-aantal-grote-namen-te-staan.htm

[Dynamite Dutch]

Add these 2 prospects also:

http://segvideo.seginternational.com/play.php?vid=262


v/5miZxF4trvE&feature=player_embedded#!

[Elzavo]

Good news from the Afellay camp. He's expected to be back in training in January (http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/212355/Revalidatie-Afellay-in-Nederland-verloopt-voorspoedig.htm), so he'll be fit for the EC if everything goes according to plan.

I think it's crucial for us to have him with the group. In his last NT games he was the best player by miles (South America trip). He should take the LW spot instead of Kuyt.

[Dynamite Dutch]

Bas Dost scored 5 goals in 1 game: http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/scheerenveen/11104287/__VIDEO_Vijf_goals_van_Bas_Dost__.html

[Elzavo]

Bas Dost scored 5 goals in 1 game: http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/scheerenveen/11104287/__VIDEO_Vijf_goals_van_Bas_Dost__.html

Could be the ideal striker for Rotterdam-Zuid next season with the amount of wingers we have, pity we haven't even got a single eurocent to spend...

[Dynamite Dutch]

v/m59CCIHoiIw

[Elzavo]

Large provisional squad for Euro 2012:

Keepers:
01. Maarten Stekelenburg (AS Roma)
02. Michel Vorm (Swansea City)
03. Tim Krul (Newcastle United)
04. Erwin Mulder (Feyenoord)
05. Jasper Cillessen (Ajax)

Defense:
06. Joris Mathijsen (Málaga)
07. John Heitinga (Everton)
08. Khalid Boulahrouz (VfB Stuttgart)
09. Gregory van der Wiel (Ajax)
10. Hedwiges Maduro (Valencia)
11. Wilfred Bouma (PSV)
12. Erik Pieters (PSV) *OUT* => *IN*: Alexander Büttner (Vitesse)
13. Vurnon Anita (Ajax)
14. Ron Vlaar (Feyenoord)
15. Stefan de Vrij (Feyenoord)
16. Nick Viergever (AZ)
17. Jetro Willems (PSV).

Midfield:
18. Mark van Bommel (AC Milan)
19. Wesley Sneijder (Internazionale)
20. Nigel de Jong (Manchester City)
21. Rafael van der Vaart (Tottenham Hotspur)
22. Urby Emanuelson (AC Milan)
23. Adam Maher (AZ)
24. Stijn Schaars (Sporting Lissabon)
25. Kevin Strootman (PSV)
26. Georginio Wijnaldum (PSV)
27. Siem de Jong (Ajax)

Offense:
28. Robin van Persie (Arsenal)
29. Klaas-Jan Huntelaar (Schalke 04)
30. Arjen Robben (Bayern München)
31. Ibrahim Afellay (Barcelona)
32. Ola John (FC Twente)
33. Luuk de Jong (FC Twente)
34. Dirk Kuyt (Liverpool)
35. Jeremain Lens (PSV)
36. Luciano Narsingh (SC Heerenveen)


Confirmed: Erik Pieters will miss the Euro (footinjury)

[Dynamite Dutch]

Confirmed: Erik Pieters will miss the Euro (footinjury)
Kut..........kut...........kut!!!!!

So who's gonna be our leftback then??

Urby does okay going forward, but on defense?? :eek:
Anita is totally unproven. And Jetro Willems was turned inside out against Valencia about a 100 times

[Elzavo]

I say Kuyt or Nigel de Jong, perhaps Schaars (England game).The other possibilities are indeed unproven and very unexperienced.

Btw. van Marwijk's replacement for Erik Pieters is.....Alexander Büttner :eek: whoever that may be (sounds like a german spy).

[Dynamite Dutch]

I like Kuyt perhaps the best at LB.

De Jong we need in midfield to deliver karate kicks

[Elzavo]

Provisional squad Round 2: from 36 down to 27 players...

Out are:

01 Jasper Cillessen (Ajax)
02 Erwin Mulder (Feyenoord)

03 Hedwiges Maduro (Valencia)
04 Alexander Büttner (Vitesse)
05 Stefan de Vrij (Feyenoord)
06 Nick Viergever (AZ)

07 Urby Emanuelson (AC Milan)
08 Georginio Wijnaldum (PSV)
09 Ola John (FC Twente)

[Dynamite Dutch]

Wow, I'm very surprised at Urby and Wijnaldum getting cut :confused:

But in Bert we trust I guess

[Elzavo]

Well, Urby is not a LB anymore if he ever was, and he was terrible against Hungary at home on that position, so I think it's a wise decision.
Besides, I think he's a pussy, slappe hap, mooiweervoetballer zonder winnersmentaliteit . Soit :).

Wijnaldum didn't improve this year, he is way below the level everybody expected him to be at.



BTW: Sweet appetizer for the big euro: Dutch win Euro 2012 U17s (beating Germany on penalties) (http://tv.eurosport.nl/voetbal/euro-u17/2012/tv-videos_vid231292.shtml).

Twice in a row!:cool:

[Dynamite Dutch]

Is Kuijt fast enough to play linksback?? I dont think he is, so unless his positioning is perfect he's gonna get run ragged


And this pic is for the wifey :D

http://i48.tinypic.com/3480c2r.jpg

[Dynamite Dutch]

Ribery just turned Willems inside out like it was nothing.

Next leftback, please :rolleyes:

[matuag]

Van Gaal

[Dynamite Dutch]

All bollocks, and Wim Kieft is a moron :p. Barely two months later we can add two new talents to the list: Maher and Boerrigter.

Talents like these will keep coming in the next few years, and one or two of them will be the robben/sneijder/persie segment.

And what about the recent performances of Krul, van Wolfswinkel, Luuk de Jong and Strootman?

No need to worry at all.
No need to worry at all??!! :eek:

Boerrigter is a talent, but he aint no Overmars.
Maher I'm not impressed by. Certainly not world class.
van Wolfswinkel is another Huntelaar, in fact he's less of a striker then Huntelaar.
Luuk de Jong got signed by MunchenGB. Why, because the big clubs know he's not good enough for the top.

The only 2 talents we have (and even those 2 arent world class) are Strootman and Krul (and maybe Vorm).

Basically, Oranje is fucked for the next 4 years or so. No way will we qualify for WC2014.

You can quote me on it :o

[Elzavo]

Van Gaal

Not my favourite but he seems to be the only one available suited for the job; to clean up the shite and rejuvenate :rolleyes:.

And most likely that chickenshit double DM crap will be history :D.