Copa Libertadores discussion *Spoilers*

[saurabh]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e9/Copa_Toyota_Libertadores.png/190px-Copa_Toyota_Libertadores.png

Defending Libertadores Cup champions Sao Paulo were stunned 2-1 at home by 10-man Guadalajara on Wednesday, while River Plate crashed to Brazilian second division club Paulista.

Guadalajara made sure of a top-two finish in Group One and a place in the last 16 after their shock win against the Brazilians at the Morumbi stadium.

They lead with 10 points followed by Sao Paulo on six, Caracas FC (Venezuela) on four and Cienciano (Peru) on three after four games.

It was Sao Paulo's first home defeat in the competition in 30 outings, a run stretching back to 1987 when they lost 2-1 to Chile's Colo Colo.

Sao Paulo, which lost to the Mexican outfit by the same scoreline two weeks ago, went ahead with striker Aloisio's hooked opener in the 32nd minute.

But the Chivas equalised on the stroke of halftime when Adolfo Bautista sent over an inswinging cross from the right and Sergio Santana beat Fabao to the ball to head past Rogerio Ceni.

The game turned ugly in the second-half with some bad-tempered clashes. Fabao could have been sent off for elbowing Ramon Morales but the referee and linesmen appeared to miss the incident.

Guadalajara striker Omar Bravo was then sent off after picking up a second yellow card for a seemingly innocuous challenge on Diego Lugano in the 74th minute.

But seven minutes later, the Sao Paulo defence failed to deal with Alberto Medina's cross and Diego Martinez tapped the ball past Rogerio Ceni.

Despite five minutes of injury-time and finishing with four forwards, Sao Paulo could not find a way back and were jeered off the field.

Argentina's River Plate, champions in 1986 and 1996, lost 2-1 to Paulista in Group Eight, who are playing in their first Libertadores after winning last year's Copa Brasil knockout competition.

Paulista raced to a 2-0 lead in 17 minutes through Amaral's looping 30-metre shot and after Jailson headed home a cross from Lucas.

Daniel Passarella's team pulled one back after Jairo Patino scored with a low, swerving shot in the 19th minute.

River stayed second with six points, but are now only one ahead of Paulista. Paraguay's Libertad lead with eight points and Ecuador's El Nacional trail with four from four games.

In the night's other game, Brazilian provincial club Goias, already qualified for the last 16, lost their unbeaten record in a 1-0 away defeat to The Strongest at 3,600 metres above sea level in La Paz.

Ronald Gutierrez fired home for the Bolivians in the 73rd minute as Goias conceded only their first goal of the group in their fifth outing.

Goias lead Group Three with 10 points from five games while The Strongest are level on six with Chile's Union Espanola. Newell's Old Boys of Argentina are bottom with four.

[Lordbeebop]

Vai Corinthiaaaaaaaaaans !!!

[Vip]

Vai Corinthiaaaaaaaaaans !!!

:D :D


These are the Round of 16 match-ups:

Velez v Newells
v
Santa Fe v Chivas

Sao Paulo v Palmeiras
v
Goias v Estudiantes


Internacional v Nacional (U)
v
At. Nacional v LDU

Corinthians v River
v
Libertad v Tigres

[chauchey]

WHAT!? AGIAN!? Corinthians vs River! man, both teams that i want to cheer for to get late into the tourney are playing each other so early in the knockout stages. man. talk about bad luck. Oh well, makes for a good storyline early on.

[deviant]

vamos Tigres vamos Chivas y vamonos River!!!!!!!!!!

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

Good games...

Corinthians x River will be great but Corinthians is 1000 times better... :(

São Paulo x Palmeiras will be great too.... a brazilian classic in Libertadores...

Wow!!! I´ll be there!!!

[Xyrus]

Corinthians are too good for River I think. But there are some fantastic matchups there.

[deviant]

Corinthians are too good for River I think. But there are some fantastic matchups there.
if Pumas can beat Corinthians then im sure River can aswell especially the way they played against Boca

[Vip]

if Pumas can beat Corinthians then im sure River can aswell especially the way they played against Boca

Don't forget that Corinthians did not concentrate in the Sudamericana Cup despite going thru over River. They were after the Brasileirao, which they won.

It is day and night in terms of the form of the team ... and they have Mascherano now. Also ... lets be reallistic, the altitude in Mexico was a BIG factor despite the weakened team that Corinthians fielded.

In this Libertadores, Corinthians' group was probably the toughest ... both Tigres and Catolica were 2 strong sides. On the other hand, River's group was the softest, and still they were hung on the radio to know what was happening in Brasil with 15 minutes to go.

Should be a good tie. Corinthians must be the favorites, based on Libertadores performance ... and finishing the tie at home.


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[riivattu]

River vs Corinthians, 1st leg wed 26th in Argentina

...I'd love to see it

[west501]

can't wait to exact sweet revenge on corinthians!
still will never forgive them for that cheap 92nd minute goal

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

can't wait to exact sweet revenge on corinthians!
still will never forgive them for that cheap 92nd minute goal


:D :D http://www.fbtz.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif http://www.fbtz.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Vamonos River!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vip]

Results tonite:

Round of 16 - First Leg
Estudiantes[Arg] 2 - Goias[Bra] 0
LDU[Ecu] 4 - Atletico Nacional[Col]0


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[Xyrus]

That's good stuff from Estudiantes, they're doing reasonably well so far.

Come on Corinthians teach those gallinas football lessons. :p

[perfectdark]

I guess I can post spoilers here.



So did anyone see Tevez's goal :D plz give a visual description.

[brain26]

Here is your own visual

Tevez Goal (http://rapidshare.de/files/19024404/Tevez_Goal.avi.html)

[brain26]

great game,,, River is playing the best they have played in a long time

[Xyrus]

Oh my god...River are thrashing them 3-1...

VAMOS CORINTHIANS!!!! :p

[brain26]

Tevez has been shut down in the 2nd half

[brain26]

nice header

3-2 now

[Xyrus]

GOL!!!! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL DE CORINTHIANS!!

Doesn't matter how late it is in the game, that's 3-2 and Corinthians are right back in this tie and it'll go down to the wire in São Paulo.

[brain26]

full match is now being seeded

[west501]

another cheap and undeserved injury time goal in the classic boca style :mad:
but at least we won..all we need is a tie in brasil to complete the cycle of sweet, sweet revenge

[Vip]

Undeserved? ... there was a legit Tevez goal not allowed and an empty goal shot on the post. Not to add that Ferrari was the MoM and he should had been sent off midway into the 1st half before doing anything positive in the game.

Nonetheless ... I am not naive enuff to realize that Mascherano is in serious moral doubt after tonite's game. If he can not stop AT ALL an aging Gallardo, then either he is not the man for the spot in the WC or he purposedly underperformed. In the first 5 minutes he committed 2 unnecessary fouls around the box, and got a yellow for a mistimed tackle in front of the area's semi circle. Not to mention his "clearance" started the ball possesion for River's 2nd goal, a pretty lame kick that bounced on the back of a River player. And then his 2nd yellow ... unnecessary and clumsy. I don't eat it. At all. He didn't want to play against his old team. Watch the game over ...

River scored 2 very good goals ... uncharacteristic of their performance. The goalie had lots to say in the 1st.

But the tie is WIDE OPEN for the return leg. A minimal lead and 2 away goals should prove too much for River to handle. We'll see.


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[saurabh]

I can't believe some of you are actualy supporting a Brazilian team over an Argentine team. Very bad. Good luck to River!

[Vip]

I can't believe some of you are actualy supporting a Brazilian team over an Argentine team. Very bad. Good luck to River!

Are you serious? :confused:

Don't be naive m8 ... there are 3 Argentinean teams to support ... + Corinthians if you are a Carlitos fan. And then there is River ... the only team many wouldn't support. Actually 50% + 1 of Argentinians wouldn't ever support River. ;)


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[perfectdark]

I was really surprised that Mascherano had that much of a poor game. He had an almost perfect game the week before when Corinthians won 3-0. Since his comeback this is definetly his worst. Maybe the pressure got to him.

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

We have the "choque-rei" on wednesday...

From the 68k tickets available 38k tickets was sold already (until yesterday).

a huge classic.

Edmundo, Juninho, Gamarra, Rogério Ceni, Lugano, Mineiro, Júnior and others awesome players!! I got my ticket! Arquibancada amarela!

My prediction: São Paulo 3-1 Palmeiras! :p

[Dash]

I will have the full game of Velez Sarsfield V Newell's Old Boys in the second leg of a fascinating all-Argentinean match-up in the last 16 of the Copa Libertadores this weekend.

I will release further details later, this will be my first cap on here for months and i can't wait.

Might give Brain26 a break from South American capping too, We don't wanna burn him out. I love his caps :D

It was a great game and there is a re-run over the weekend, so i'll cap it ;)

[Nelly]

In the Sao Paulo-Palmeiras CL game last night,Palmeiras got 3 men sent off in the 90th minute:eek:

Can anyone shed any light on this situaton?

[Vip]

I will have the full game of Velez Sarsfield V Newell's Old Boys in the second leg of a fascinating all-Argentinean match-up in the last 16 of the Copa Libertadores this weekend.

I will release further details later, this will be my first cap on here for months and i can't wait.

Might give Brain26 a break from South American capping too, We don't wanna burn him out. I love his caps :D

It was a great game and there is a re-run over the weekend, so i'll cap it ;)

I think this was released by Brain already .... http://tracker.denness.net:6969/stats.html?info_hash=5a090748631de2be2e1336c335d81 a0ee3fb5652


Nelly ... the Palmeiras players went crazy on the ref after awarding a non-existant penalty in favor of Sao Paulo with less than 10 minutes to go. They insulted the ref and if not for the police probably would had got worse.

The game was tied 1-1 atm of the penalty, and would had gone to penalty kicks (there is no ET in Libertadores) as the first leg was also 1-1.


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[Nelly]

Cheers,as always,VIP.

Damn refs........always causing problemos:D

No ET in Libertadores :confused: Never knew that.

[west501]

we're gonna get 'em!
can't wait

[Dash]

I think this was released by Brain already .... http://tracker.denness.net:6969/stats.html?info_hash=5a090748631de2be2e1336c335d81 a0ee3fb5652


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Oh ok thats cool :cool:

[perfectdark]

Will the Libertadores finish before the WC ?? If not it is going to be a really tight schedule.

[Xyrus]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! River scored and tied it up in São Paulo!! Damn it! :p

edit: Oh crap, and now that's thank you and good night for Corinthians as River are now winning 1-3.

[perfectdark]

this thing turned ugly pretty fast....fans are furious now. Something needs to be done about this sort of behaviour in south america.\

Watched the second half. Corinthians really lacked any sort of creativity attacking. Couldnt even form any sort of danger with their efforts. River was the better team.

[Hartfield]

goddamit..I've never seen so many damn people on so little cops. What a fucking fight. jesus christ. I think some dude died. :(

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

Hahahahahaha!!!!! :D :D :D

Corinthians....... bye bye!!!!!!

Libertadores é torneio pra time grande gambazada!!!

Congrat to River... and gracias hermanos! ;)

[Hartfield]

this thing turned ugly pretty fast....fans are furious now. Something needs to be done about this sort of behaviour in south america.\

Watched the second half. Corinthians really lacked any sort of creativity attacking. Couldnt even form any sort of danger with their efforts. River was the better team.

This copa Libertadores has been non sense..in Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay..some shit in Ecuador. I'm glad nothing happended in Colombia this time.

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

This copa Libertadores has been non sense..in Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay..some shit in Ecuador. I'm glad nothing happended in Colombia this time.

In the critical moment 15 police officers (I think) hold (I don´t know how...) the Gaviões da Fiel (supporters group) to invade the pitch... that riot officers was heroes... was incredible...

[Vip]

Will the Libertadores finish before the WC ?? If not it is going to be a really tight schedule.

Originally the Libertadores was scheduled to be played up to quarterfinals ... and after the WC the semis and final. That meant that there were games next week (May 10th and 11th) and the following (May 17th and 18th)

But this morning it was informed in La Red radio that FIFA has pressured CONMEBOL to stop the tournie after next week's games. This means that the 1st leg of QF is played next week and the return leg after the WC. :rolleyes:

This certainly benefits:
- Chivas, who will have their 6 NT players back for the return leg against Velez in BS As
- River, that will be able to play with Montenegro and Zapata the 2nd leg, as they were injured and would have missed both legs.


As to the game tonite ... Corinthians' coach unbalanced the team taking out Xavier ... he was the holding midfielder, after the sub, River always was facing the 2 center backs ... terrible players btw.

River outplayed Corinthians in the 2nd half with a mere 2 shots on goal and 3 goals. :rolleyes: But defensively, never gave Corinthians the chance to build. Missing Mascherano and Gustavo Neri proved too much for Timao. Their replacements were not up for the task.

The QF brackets are:
Chivas v Velez
Estudiantes v Sao Paulo
and
River v Libertad
LDU v Internacional


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[west501]

Hahahahahaha!!!!! :D :D :D

Corinthians....... bye bye!!!!!!

Libertadores é torneio pra time grande gambazada!!!

Congrat to River... and gracias hermanos! ;)

we're coming after you next ;)

[Hartfield]

we're coming after you next ;)

I hate argentinians arrogance..maaan i hope they lose.

[west501]

I hate argentinians..maaan i hope they lose.

whoa whoa whoa
you might as well edit the word 'arrogance' out of that post
I reserve the right to root for my team and to look forward to a possible rematch with the team that eliminated us last year (before going on to win it all) without being called arrogant
that being said we deserved better last year and can beat them this year if we both make it that far

[Hartfield]

whoa whoa whoa
you might as well edit the word 'arrogance' out of that post
I reserve the right to root for my team and to look forward to a possible rematch with the team that eliminated us last year (before going on to win it all) without being called arrogant
that being said we deserved better last year and can beat them this year if we both make it that far
arrogance

[Hartfield]

I'm obviously kidding...

[west501]

arrogance

nah, mate, I'm a realist
we lost a lot of key players between last year and now (lucho, mascherano, salas) and since the local tournament is all but lost, we need to put all our efforts into this copa libertadortes so as to build a more cohesive team and regain our place at the top of argentine football
you may be confusing the definitions of competitiveness and arrogance

[west501]

I'm obviously kidding...

I'd hoped as much

[deviant]

damn Im bummed out Tigres didnt make it to the next round

[chauchey]

I'm obviously kidding...
i was thinking of a repremand, but then i read that and breathed a sigh of relief. You never know with type vs speach. its just not the same, and we cant see the personality through it. :rolleyes:

[Hartfield]

damn Im bummed out Tigres didnt make it to the next round

Yea, to tell you the truth I wasn't expecting much from them. In the Copa they didn't show much except for that Corinthians game.

Chivas in the other side is a very good team the only down side is that they face Velez a very good team. But If Chivas amkes it pass Velez I think they can make it Champions.

[Hartfield]

i was thinking of a repremand, but then i read that and breathed a sigh of relief. You never know with type vs speach. its just not the same, and we cant see the personality through it. :rolleyes:
lol yea. I'm all for team cheering and stuff. That's what soccer is all about. ;)

[chauchey]

good chap ;) :D

[Juan_ma]

Chivas Guadalajara vs. Vélez Sarsfield

Good game today. It'll be interesting to see what's Chivas gameplan tonight as they get their first "real" test in the Copa because Velez is a very very offensive side.

[Hartfield]

who ever thinks that goal for chivas was valid is a complete inept in soccer.

[sirmax858]

who ever thinks that goal for chivas was valid is a complete inept in soccer.


i do!

Fuck SOuth AMerican Football
They hate Mexico, and cant accept the fact that we have the best league...

Shit i was pissed at that offside cal to, when santana had the ball passed the keeper in the 83rd minute, but i realised it was correct, but i was still angry...

[toli]

i do!

Fuck SOuth AMerican Football
They hate Mexico, and cant accept the fact that we have the best league...

Shit i was pissed at that offside cal to, when santana had the ball passed the keeper in the 83rd minute, but i realised it was correct, but i was still angry...

Who is "we"? because there is no way in hell either the US or Mexico have the best league.

[deviant]

Yea, to tell you the truth I wasn't expecting much from them. In the Copa they didn't show much except for that Corinthians game.

Chivas in the other side is a very good team the only down side is that they face Velez a very good team. But If Chivas amkes it pass Velez I think they can make it Champions.
Chivas are a good team but almost all of the starting line up is on international duty. :eek:

[deviant]

Who is "we"? because there is no way in hell either the US or Mexico have the best league.
dont insult me by putting the FMF with the MLS lol what a fucking joke.

[Hartfield]

i do!

Fuck SOuth AMerican Football
They hate Mexico, and cant accept the fact that we have the best league...

Shit i was pissed at that offside cal to, when santana had the ball passed the keeper in the 83rd minute, but i realised it was correct, but i was still angry...

The ball wasn't even played before Bofo took it form his hands, FIFA specifically focues on that matter. Even if the gaolie let's it go in the air to kick the ball it is still a foul.


Anyway kid this is not a Univision or Big Soccer forum so respect other peoples opinion. Wether you think that your league is the best in the world that's up to you but everyone here has a different opinion and I don't want to hear some kid who has been following soccer for about 2 years to come here and insult my beliefs. Respect other people if you want them to respect you.

[Hartfield]

Chivas are a good team but almost all of the starting line up is on international duty. :eek:
They will have them for the next game. But that was a poor Conmebol decision too many things can happen in all that time specially for Chivas because their players can be injured or tired.

[Juan_ma]

Hartfield from World Rivalries? :p

hahahahahahhahaha. Your ass got banned :D

[Hartfield]

Hartfield from World Rivalries? :p

hahahahahahhahaha. Your ass got banned :D

Yea. But it wasn't for behavior.

[Vip]

i do!

Fuck SOuth AMerican Football
They hate Mexico, and cant accept the fact that we have the best league...

Shit i was pissed at that offside cal to, when santana had the ball passed the keeper in the 83rd minute, but i realised it was correct, but i was still angry...

Let me be a bit of a party pooper ...

Before the new 6 seconds rule for the goalie, an attempt like Batista's would had been valid, provided the ball was on the air ... not on the goalie's hand.

With the new rule, once the goalie has control of the ball, he has 6 seconds to get rid of it ... and no player can obstruct his way in a 10 yard/9.15 meter radius. What Batista did should had been a carded.

As to the commentary in Spanish by the Mexican duo, that there was a similar situation in Mexico's League ... it just shows their lack of knowledge of the rule. But what is worst, they once againd act like cry babies by implying that Chivas were cheated. Bollocks.

As to the game, there is no doubt that Chivas deserved to win. They are a very organized team and are dangerous in attack despite missing some of their first team players. Velez did look to have a difficult time in the 2nd half with the altitude of Guadalajara. There was a considerable difference in the quickness to react to a divided ball.

For the return leg in 2 months* :mad: , Velez might be missing 2 of their best players, Gracian and Somoza, as they might be transfered to Europe by then. And Chivas will have their full team back.

It is a wide open tie. Chivas is more than capable to tie in Bs As ... or even win.


* I am in absolute disbelief in the change of dates for the return leg of quarters. I think that CONMEBOL did very little to pressure FIFA with this. Why?

1) The Champions League final is on Wednesday May 17th. Possibly, there will be at least 23 players that will play the WC: Puyol, Gio, Marquez, Edmilson, Iniesta, Xavi, Dinho, Messi, Larsson, Van Bommel, Deco, Lehmann, Eboue, Toure, Senderos, Sol, Cole, Ljunberg, Cesc, Henry, Reyes, Van Persie, Walcott.

2) La Liga has had to postpone 2 of their games for Tuesday May 16th. Sevilla v Real Madrid and Osasuna v Valencia. Another group of around 15 players here ... Casillas, Salgado, Ramos, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, Zidane, Robinho, Raul, Albelda, Ayala, Villa, Canizares, Marchena, Baraja, Saviola.

3) The 8 teams in the Libertadores QFs have no more than 10 players that will go to the WC. River's Lux, 2 or 3 from Libertad, 5 from LDU, non from Internacional, maybe Rogerio Ceni from Sao Paulo, non from Estudiantes, non from Velez, non from Chivas (they were with their NT prior and based on an Agreement with the Mexican FF not pressured by FIFA). This means 10 players.

The Libertadores return leg could had been played Tuesday and Wednesday of next week. There is something fishy in all this.


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[Juan_ma]

Yea. But it wasn't for behavior.

what for then. They just hated your colombian ass I guess?

[Hartfield]

what for then. They just hated your colombian ass I guess?
I had a signature that was "offensive" so with out warning they banned me.

[Hartfield]

Agree with VIP. I thought the commentators were quit ignorant on that. That is a RULE enforced by FIFA. Also something out of the topic. Even though I agreed with them, when they talked about El campin in Bogota and said it was in horrible state (which I agreed 100%) but then they said it was Colombia's NT home. Which is completely not true Colombia hasn't played there since the Copa America 2001. I hopw they stop being unprofessional and ignorant and do a little research before talking. They are not the only ones. That website Mediotiempo also from MExico lacks a research teams I've read the most ignorant things coming from there.

[Juan_ma]

Fox Sports en Espanol's commentators are ignorants. So What's new? :cool:

Seriously though, those narrators and commentators are the worst I've ever heard.

The argentine-based commentators are also biased, but the mexican ones take the price by a huge margin. They are not only biased, but they have pretty much all the information about the game and surrounding it (city, club history, etc, etc) wrong, and they'll try to put as most insults as they can -without getting fired- in the broadcast.

[Hartfield]

yes. The Argie Commentators have also been really biased lately it is so damn annoying. But atleast they know what they're talking about.

[toli]

dont insult me by putting the FMF with the MLS lol what a fucking joke.

wasn't insulting you, the guy has a USNT sig so I am bit confused he is proclaiming mexico to have the best league

[sirmax858]

Who is "we"? because there is no way in hell either the US or Mexico have the best league.


just because i suport the USMNT dose not mean i am an MLS Fan,

"we" meaning the FMF
dont be a retard, where in any of my info does it say anything about any MLS or even an mks player

[sirmax858]

Let me be a bit of a party pooper ...

Before the new 6 seconds rule for the goalie, an attempt like Batista's would had been valid, provided the ball was on the air ... not on the goalie's hand.

With the new rule, once the goalie has control of the ball, he has 6 seconds to get rid of it ... and no player can obstruct his way in a 10 yard/9.15 meter radius. What Batista did should had been a carded.

As to the commentary in Spanish by the Mexican duo, that there was a similar situation in Mexico's League ... it just shows their lack of knowledge of the rule. But what is worst, they once againd act like cry babies by implying that Chivas were cheated. Bollocks.

As to the game, there is no doubt that Chivas deserved to win. They are a very organized team and are dangerous in attack despite missing some of their first team players. Velez did look to have a difficult time in the 2nd half with the altitude of Guadalajara. There was a considerable difference in the quickness to react to a divided ball.

For the return leg in 2 months* :mad: , Velez might be missing 2 of their best players, Gracian and Somoza, as they might be transfered to Europe by then. And Chivas will have their full team back.

It is a wide open tie. Chivas is more than capable to tie in Bs As ... or even win.


* I am in absolute disbelief in the change of dates for the return leg of quarters. I think that CONMEBOL did very little to pressure FIFA with this. Why?

1) The Champions League final is on Wednesday May 17th. Possibly, there will be at least 23 players that will play the WC: Puyol, Gio, Marquez, Edmilson, Iniesta, Xavi, Dinho, Messi, Larsson, Van Bommel, Deco, Lehmann, Eboue, Toure, Senderos, Sol, Cole, Ljunberg, Cesc, Henry, Reyes, Van Persie, Walcott.

2) La Liga has had to postpone 2 of their games for Tuesday May 16th. Sevilla v Real Madrid and Osasuna v Valencia. Another group of around 15 players here ... Casillas, Salgado, Ramos, Roberto Carlos, Beckham, Zidane, Robinho, Raul, Albelda, Ayala, Villa, Canizares, Marchena, Baraja, Saviola.

3) The 8 teams in the Libertadores QFs have no more than 10 players that will go to the WC. River's Lux, 2 or 3 from Libertad, 5 from LDU, non from Internacional, maybe Rogerio Ceni from Sao Paulo, non from Estudiantes, non from Velez, non from Chivas (they were with their NT prior and based on an Agreement with the Mexican FF not pressured by FIFA). This means 10 players.

The Libertadores return leg could had been played Tuesday and Wednesday of next week. There is something fishy in all this.


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Let me be a party pooper, its not batista, it is bautista....
Only reason why chivas were stopped from winning the Libertadores Last year was because of the confederations cup, and I’m surprised they postponed the next leg, because South America is so against a Mexican side winning any major tournament, and don't try arguing with me about that....

An if anybody tries telling me that Mexico doesn’t have the best league in all of the Americas from top to bottom, I wont respond only because they are blinded by they're Argentinean pride

[saurabh]

The only thing Mexican league has are the Señadoras. The Argentine League has the best talent. Always had, always will. If you want to see the superstars of tomorrow watch the Argentine League.

[cavenaghi]

I think this competition between the different leagues has already been discussed in a previous thread before the "Storm". And the Argentine league was widely prefered. Because of the players, the fans, the clubs.... Well, everything that Mexico doesn't have :D
And maybe we don't want you to win the Libertadores but at least we invited you in our competitions. So that you understand what is Football :p
We are Lords :cool:

And this decision to put so much time between the two legs is abolutely unbelievable. Pathetic and unprofessional :mad:

[sirmax858]

The only thing Mexican league has are the Señadoras. The Argentine League has the best talent. Always had, always will. If you want to see the superstars of tomorrow watch the Argentine League.


argentina has better players, i wil agree with you....
but Mexico has a deeper league, and better teams all around..

[Vip]

Let me be a party pooper, its not batista, it is bautista....
Only reason why chivas were stopped from winning the Libertadores Last year was because of the confederations cup, and I’m surprised they postponed the next leg, because South America is so against a Mexican side winning any major tournament, and don't try arguing with me about that....

An if anybody tries telling me that Mexico doesn’t have the best league in all of the Americas from top to bottom, I wont respond only because they are blinded by they're Argentinean pride

To each teir own m8. You like your league and support it props to you. I don't think it is the best league ... to me it is one of the top 3 in the Americas ... but ranks third behind the argentinian and the brazilian leagues. One main reason: production of youngsters. Both South American leagues rely on producing players ... as the Mexican imports the 2nd tier Southies. But, I don't hold the truth ...

Thanx for the correction on Bofo ... I was tempted to call him Baptista ... but he is a bit too white. At least Batista won a WC. ;)

Bottom line is that I do think Chivas can get the result they need against Velez. A tie with goals puts them thru. With that they are in semis ... against Sao Paulo probably. And that is another tight prediction, despite the Group stage results.



.

[zabadoh]

The only thing Mexican league has are the Señadoras. The Argentine League has the best talent. Always had, always will. If you want to see the superstars of tomorrow watch the Argentine League.

Out of curiosity, why don't you consider the Brazilian League to be in the picture? They develop lots of strong players, their club and national teams win international cups. Sao Paolo kicked my Liverpool squad in Japan...

[sirmax858]

As to the commentary in Spanish by the Mexican duo, that there was a similar situation in Mexico's League ... it just shows their lack of knowledge of the rule. But what is worst, they once againd act like cry babies by implying that Chivas were cheated. Bollocks.


.


Vip dont be so hypocritical, argentina is world reknown for being "cry babies"

and its not just chivas its all of mexican football
like the pumas in last year in copa suramerica, against you beloved boca junior, or should i say boca "we pay off the referee" juniors:D

[west501]

I'd say argentina's league trumps brazil's because of organisation and professionalism from the youth level up
brazil's tournament is just unwieldy and very uneven in terms of the levels of the teams
but as the league which has produced many of the greatest players of all time it deserves respect
argentina's league is the least predictable, with a number of small teams getting results and using the short tournament format to finish amongst the leaders

don't get ahead of yourself, siramax
sure we've got pride but that doesn't make it completely unjustified
get back to me when you guys produce another hugo sánchez (and I don't mean that guy on tigres with the same name) or at least when your players are internationally sought after
that being said, I think the mexican league has improved greatly in the last decade in terms of organisation and quality
but it still has a long way to go

edit: spelling errors

[saurabh]

Out of curiosity, why don't you consider the Brazilian League to be in the picture? They develop lots of strong players, their club and national teams win international cups. Sao Paolo kicked my Liverpool squad in Japan...

You are right that we were unable to beat the Brazilians but overall we were better and if you see the long term track record of the Brazilian clubs vis a vis the Argentines it is not that good. The Brazilians have won more World Cups than Argentina but apart from that the Argentine record is superior to theirs in Club competitions as well as Copa America.

[Vip]

Vip dont be so hypocritical, argentina is world reknown for being "cry babies"



And for having the biggest balls to win tournaments ... been doing it since the early days. That is what Argentina is know for.


.

[Juan_ma]

An if anybody tries telling me that Mexico doesn’t have the best league in all of the Americas from top to bottom, I wont respond only because they are blinded by they're Argentinean pride

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ...

[toli]

argentina has better players, i wil agree with you....
but Mexico has a deeper league, and better teams all around..

and mexico has proved it by winning so many Libertadores :rolleyes:

never said mexico has a bad league but it is a bit below the Argentine and Brasilian leagues.

[chololo]

i think the mexican league is right up their with the brazilian and argentinian league we have been proving it but not better we are a very old league 100 years old thats still trying to prove southamericans that we have a good league

[Vip]

LDU beat Internacional 2-1 in the early game. Very good result for the Ecuatorians, despite not playing their usual. The away goal can prove to be decisive in the return leg.

In the 2nd game of the nite, Estudiantes beat champs Sao Paulo 1-0, as it has been thru out the competition ... scoring in the last minutes of the game to claim the 3 points. Both teams played down with 10 since the 3rd minute. Later, while still 0-0, Sao Paulo's Lugano was red carded. Estudiantes had a legit goal ruled off for offside at the end of the first half. The result is short for the return leg ... but holding the visitors scoreless could be the factor for Estudiantes.


So far, the 3 ties are wide open for the return leg.


.

[Hartfield]

Out of curiosity, why don't you consider the Brazilian League to be in the picture? They develop lots of strong players, their club and national teams win international cups. Sao Paolo kicked my Liverpool squad in Japan...

Agree. I happen to think the Brazilian League is better than the Argentinian League.

[Hartfield]

i think the mexican league is right up their with the brazilian and argentinian league we have been proving it but not better we are a very old league 100 years old thats still trying to prove southamericans that we have a good league

I thought the first Mexican championship was in 1943? :confused:
Also don't know what age has to do with talent. The Brasileirao is no more than 40 years old..does that mean it's no good?

[langosta]

we had this debate a thousand times already. IMO the Argentinian league is the better one. Please stop comparing the mexican league with it.

[Vip]

Libertad scraped a tie in Bs As against River, after seeing their lead be offset twice ... the 2nd time in a clear offside in the last minutes of the game.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6954/offsidefarias3yr.png


The game was dominated by the locals, who made Libertad's goalie Bobadilla the MoM. Pusineri was once again red carded, leaving his team with 10 when they had just got to the 2-2 and 5 + injury time to play.

The tie is wide open despite the result. Libertad will have to add to their defensive order a lot more ball control if they wanna have any chances of reaching the semis.


.

[ghie]

chivas win it all
we all know that
this is our tourne to win

[Juan_ma]

Libertad's got the upper hand IMO.

They're undefeated at home in the Copa and I'm sure they'll play a very smart, conservative game. They won't pass the opportunity of going to the semis of the Copa.

Then again, River already performed very well away from home and beat Corinthians in Brasil :eek:

[west501]

we were the far superior side in the first leg and take a good bit of confidence and momentum into the second leg
see you in july! hahaha disaster in planning right there

[saurabh]

River will win the match.

[Terruble]

chivas win it all
we all know that
this is our tourne to win


I hope so but doubt it. The Refs always find a way to screw the Mexican clubs in South American Tournaments

[R9magia]

I hope so but doubt it. The Refs always find a way to screw the Mexican clubs in South American Tournaments
The Mexicans always find a way to screw themselves. They haven't won any Libertadores because their teams haven't been good enough, bottom line. Same reason they haven't won a Copa America. There is no need to find an excuse. They simply haven't been good enough yet.

[Aztec9]

The Mexicans always find a way to screw themselves. They haven't won any Libertadores because their teams haven't been good enough, bottom line. Same reason they haven't won a Copa America. There is no need to find an excuse. They simply haven't been good enough yet.

You should see my post in the N and S American section about the rematch between Cruz Azul and Boca. Cruz Azul and Boca were in the Libertadores finals. Both legs were 1-0 (Boca won at Azul's home). The cup was won because of penalties.. in Boca's home

I think Chivas have a chance, but they have lost their star defender, Salcido, and will also be losing Oswaldo Sanchez. Oswaldo Sanchez > El Pato.

And I know for a FACT that a Brazilian team wont be winning it :D

[R9magia]

You should see my post in the N and S American section about the rematch between Cruz Azul and Boca. Cruz Azul and Boca were in the Libertadores finals. Both legs were 1-0 (Boca won at Azul's home). The cup was won because of penalties.. in Boca's home

I think Chivas have a chance, but they have lost their star defender, Salcido, and will also be losing Oswaldo Sanchez. Oswaldo Sanchez > El Pato.
I'm not saying Mexico don't have any teams capable or worthy of winning the Libertadores (after all, unlike the Argentine and Brazilian leagues, Mexico has basically all of their best players playing in Mexico), I'm just saying that blaming the referees for the fact that they haven't won any yet is absurd.
And I know for a FACT that a Brazilian team wont be winning it :D
Why don't you tell me who's going to win the Libertadores, Copa América and 2010 World Cup while you're at it :rolleyes:

[sirmax858]

I'm not saying Mexico don't have any teams capable or worthy of winning the Libertadores (after all, unlike the Argentine and Brazilian leagues, Mexico has basically all of their best players playing in Mexico), I'm just saying that blaming the referees for the fact that they haven't won any yet is absurd.



do you watch libertadores? Really the refs rob mexican clubs multiple times. And dont you notice evrey 2 leg game Mexico is always the first team to have a home game. Mexican teams are constantly robbed. You just are brasilian so you dont see the mexican teams beeing unfairly treated.


Anyhow I am extremley nervous going into this 2nd leg against Velez Sarsfield. Chivas really dominated the first leg but couldent score, and I wonder if that is going to screw us.

[chauchey]

I'm guessing River is going to win it all. :p

[R9magia]

do you watch libertadores? Really the refs rob mexican clubs multiple times. And dont you notice evrey 2 leg game Mexico is always the first team to have a home game. Mexican teams are constantly robbed. You just are brasilian so you dont see the mexican teams beeing unfairly treated.
Some bad calls go against every team every now and then. There are hundreds I can name that went against brasilian teams over the years as well. Even if Mexico is "robbed" more than other clubs, it's still absurd to suggest "ref's always look to screw them in South American Tournaments" as if that's the reason they haven't won yet.

[Aztec9]

Why don't you tell me who's going to win the Libertadores, Copa América and 2010 World Cup while you're at it

Sure, Copa America - Argentina, World Cup 2010 = A country from the Americas, not a European or Asian team

[R9magia]

Congratulations to Chivas. They're one of the best teams in America and deserve their place in the semi-final. Time for a rematch against a brazilian team, this time against the defending champions São Paulo.

And speaking of semi-finals:
And dont you notice evrey 2 leg game Mexico is always the first team to have a home game.
Last year Chivas played the 2nd game of the semi-finals at home against Atletico Paranaense and was still eliminated
Tigres also played the 2nd game at home and was eliminated by São Paulo...So no, I don't notice what you're talking about. I think that you just have this in your mind (Mexican teams get robbed) so if the ref makes a bad call or the 2nd game is set up for a Mexican team to play away, you automatically believe they're trying to rob the Mexican team when the truth of the matter is this happens to all teams (bad calls and 2nd legs away).

[sirmax858]

Well heres the test boys.. this Week Sao Pulo vs Chivas... .

who you got winning the game?
who you rooting for?

I'm fucking pumped and very confident

[Aztec9]

have to support the Mexican side, Chivas have already beaten them twice, I think they can do it again

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/report?id=194760&leagueCup=CONMEBOL.LIBERTADORES

^ At Home 2-1.

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/futbol/match?id=194761&leagueCup=CONMEBOL.LIBERTADORES

^ and away 1-2

[Hartfield]

Sao Paulo won 0 - 1.
The next leg will be played next week...Chivas has to pull something fantastic out of their hat.

[Bandeirante_SPFC]

Respect for Chivas. They are awesome and can turn this result. This semi isn´t done yet. Everything can happen.

[Vip]

Respect for Chivas. They are awesome and can turn this result. This semi isn´t done yet. Everything can happen.


Sao Paulo controlled the game with intelligence and experience ... limited Chivas to 2 goal ocasions.

The tie is not over yet, but it will be a huge uphill task for Chivas now. Sao Paulo are the favorites by a 4-1 margin at least.

Tonite's game will be an interesting one as well. But I think it will be an ALL Brazilian final once again.


.

[zabadoh]

Final 1st Leg Sao Paolo vs Internacional

Great game! Play swung back and forth between the sides, but Sao Paolo whined themselves out of the match against a classier, more composed Internacional side.

Sao Paolo played much of the first half a man down after Josue flagrantly elbowed Sobis in the back of the head and received a straight red.

Internacional were also down to 10 men after Fabinho slapped the back of Souza's neck after a challenge.

Two quick goals in the 2nd half scored by Rafael Sobis for Internacional were scored on a piercing run past Sao Paolo's defense and a lucky rebound to his feet. Both were needed as defender Edcarlos scored the best goal of the match with a strong header off a flying cross from Leandro.

Souza is a diving, whining idiot.

But, that's just the first leg.

The second leg is played at Internacional's home, Gigante da Beira-Rio stadium in Porto Alegre, on Wed, Aug 16th.

[Butterfly]

I watched the final and Rafael Sobis were on fire!
I really don't understand that he went to Racing Santander when he could go to Milan or Psg...