The Vamos Albiceleste thread v2.0 **SPOILERS**

[Arg10]

ah ok, I didn't realise that..in any case, those two players could have been instrumental in an attack that did not work at all
as for Diego, he's approaching the team's problem from a motivational standpoint instead of a tactical one for now
let's hope it works and I also hope someone will cap the match tomorrow as I will miss it!

The match is Wednesday, not tomorrow. Hopefully you'll be able to watch it then.

Anyways, I just hope it's a good game, we win(hopefully score more than 1 goal), no one gets injured and the players are motivated for the WCQ.

[west501]

I've been confused about this all day..it's wednesday and I can't watch it then :o:(

[threervana]

I don't know what we should do in midfield, to be honest
this is why we need a systems coach to define roles and delegate responsibility to the players that fill them

Carrizo/Romero; Zanetti, DeMichelis, Heinze, Papa; Maxi, Masche(c), Gago; Messi, Tévez, Agüero



I wanna see Samuel in the middle~~:(

Hope Angeleri would get some minutes~~:rolleyes:

Just give midget trio last chance~~:cool:

[msi2]

Our U20 side... I don't know what to say. I watched every match of the tournament except for the last one and I must say we looked like shit. The team did not click at all, they played better when they were a man down and losing then they did 11 vs. 11. They did show some heart, coming back from 2-0 to get a draw. They weren't disciplined, the only real bright spot if you can say that was Salvio. Say what you want about Pekerman but the guy was a genius when it came to the youth. I'm still behind Batista though.

There's a good article in Ole about the sub-20 debacle and i really agree with it:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/02/09/seleccion/01855490.html

To finish with the sub-20 debacle, i think it's clear Batista is 100% coupable.

I mean, what the hell is this supposed to mean????

El entrenador del seleccionado argentino de fútbol Sub 20, Sergio Batista, afirmó que el equipo no se clasificó al Mundial de Egipto porque tuvo "mala suerte" y dijo que "ningún equipo" los superó, al regresar al país tras la participación en el Sudamericano de Venezuela.

"Ningún equipo nos superó. Tuvimos mala suerte, como con el árbitro contra Brasil, pero no pongo excusas :rolleyes: , no jugamos bien y faltó algo", reconoció Batista, conductor del grupo que finalizó en el último puesto del hexagonal final que entregó cuatro plazas para el Mundial que se realizará en setiembre en Egipto.

[west501]

unconfirmed formation for tonight (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/02/11/seleccion/01856380.html)
Juan Pablo 'las manos de D10S' Carrizo :cool:
Zanetti-Micho-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Masche(c)-Gago
Messi-Agüero-Tévez/Jonás

will he give Messi the 10 :confused:

[threervana]

unconfirmed formation for tonight (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/02/11/seleccion/01856380.html)
Juan Pablo 'las manos de D10S' Carrizo :cool:
Zanetti-Micho-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Masche(c)-Gago
Messi-Agüero-Tévez/Jonás

will he give Messi the 10 :confused:

No #10 in friendlies~~~:D

[Arg10]

We won and scored more than 1 goal! This was a team effort from the beginning. Demichelis was my man of the match followed very closely by Gago and Mascherano. Micho won every ball there was in the air or on the ground. Easily his best match under the shirt. Carrizo made a key save on Anelka one on one or else it would have changed the entire outcome of the match. Zanetti's experience really showed when he had to stop Ribery a few times. What he lost in speed, he definatly made up for in experience. Heinze was lucky not to get a yellow or even a red for some of his karate kicks and flapping arms everywhere. Papa had a good showing, but I'm not sold. Something about him screams "I'm the next Heinze".

Gago and Mascherano are the midfield duo for me. The Olympics was not a fluke, these two really know how to play together. Maxi was quiet for most of the game and I would of subbed him off around the 60th minute for Lopez or Tevez and have Messi slot in where he usually plays for Barcelona. Not sure how many realised but Gutierrez was virtually a 5th defender for us tonight and we needed it. He's fast for a big guy and knows how to protect the ball. He really helped out Papa on the left side. I wouldn't mind seeing him in the Starting XI again against Venezuela if he can play like that again. He was more defensive in the second half where he disappeared in attack, but I suppose that was Diego's decision because he followed Ribery everywhere on the pitch. Whether it was the left or right side.

Messi and Aguero cannot play together. They are too similar in style and can't seem to link-up. I'm really surprised Diego waited that long to sub him off. Aside from a few runs and that cross over to Gutierrez for the goal, he did nothing. Would of loved to have seen this at the start of the second half.

Messi---------Gutierrez/Di Maria
Lopez----Tevez

Messi in his usual Barcelona role and Gutierrez(or Di Maria) on the left trying to set-up Tevez and Lopez. We can't keep playing with midgets up front. We need a #9 and seeing as how the only real one we have is not getting called to the team(Cavenaghi), atleast use the one that is getting called. Good thing Denis didn't play.

As for Diego, aside from waiting that long to make a substitution(even though it worked out with the second goal) I think he did very well. He was lively on the sideline and from what I've read on another site, had a few words for the boys(well written down) in the locker room.

"We're not here just to play a part. We are here to wear this shirt"; "There are no starters and substitute. The only irreplaceable thing is our shirt"

Diego's doing a fine job so far. 2 out of 2 with 2 clean sheets!

Another thing I just want to touch on real quick, our set pieces are beyond bad. Messi can't take a proper free kick/corner, Maxi had a bad night and with no Riquelme or Veron to deliver some good balls, set pieces were useless.

[robin9]

I watched the game last night, first half was pretty interesting, 2nd half the teams just weared out. Argentina was good, they just lacked a striker and a good maxi rodriguez. Best players of the game were Messi, Gago, Macherano and from France Ribery & Diarra.

[Zemskov]

Gyus, what about Riquelme? Why he wasn't called for this match? And what did Maradona say about Riquelme's future in the team?
Sorry, but I haven't got this information:(
Agree with Arg10. Martin played very well. It's a good information, because what I saw from him in Bundesliga wasn't good enough. Keep on doing like this one, Martin!

[west501]

Riquelme was taken off the list at the last minute because he did not recover from an injury (that is the official story at least..there might be something under it that smells worse) and apparently Diego will keep him as the number 10 for the eliminatorias

I agree with Arg10, this was a good victory against a French side who looked the likelier before we scored the goal
like last time we beat France in France, I think the ghost of Pekerman's Argentina was here today and if we can win scrappy games like this against high quality opponents, things look good

Juampa 'el muro' Carrizo - looked great, this is our number 1, if Lazio don't want him send him back to River!!! :o:o:mad:

Zanetti - rock solid
Micho - possibly motm, best performance as our 2
Heinze - shaky, just like at Madrid, heart is big, but we need more than that..he should still be called but not started anymore
Papa - shaky, had a nightmare time of it on the left flank with Ribery and Sagna and Toulalan making him look bad

Maxi - off night for the lad, but he'll be back
Masche(c) - rock solid, motm behind Micho, he stopped everything that came his way
Gago - everyone knows I don't like this guy, but if he can mature and play with the grit he did today he could be important for us..he just needs to stop losing cheap balls and it should be interesting to see how the second half of the season plays out for him as Lass has just about stolen his spot
Jonas - huge match for him, I think he is a bit heavy on the touch to be honest, but he has good speed and played a workmanlike match

Messi - genius needs two runs to put the nail in the coffin, clinical like the very best
Agüero - off night, but keep in mind he did assist the goal and despite being clearly off form, much like Messi he pulled out a few moments of singular genius during the match..I would give him a chance though I wouldn't mind seeing Higuaín get a shot with la pulga, with Agüero being a straight sub for Messi....

this was a Bilardo win, and I think I heard some of his 'bocinazos' coming from the bench..though in the few shots they showed I didn't see him
anyhow, we were better defensively than offensively in this match to be sure, and though it is tempting to paint this as a defensive team, I just think the offence is not working as it should, particularly in the midfield
I'll edit more in as I think about it

[Arg10]

v/ylrg-83O2qI

Di Maria!:eek:

[robin9]

Nice inspiration by Di Maria.

I really wanted him @ Madrid after what I saw at the Olympic Tournament. And Mijatovic almost signed him for Madrid at December, but the management changes put a hold to it.

[west501]

I would prefer to see Di María over Jonas to be honest
and also Higuaín (was it 3 assists today?) over Agüero please
el Kun is undoubtedly the better player, but I'd rather see him come in for Messi as a straight sub at this point

[msi2]

I would prefer to see Di María over Jonas to be honest
and also Higuaín (was it 3 assists today?) over Agüero please
el Kun is undoubtedly the better player, but I'd rather see him come in for Messi as a straight sub at this point


The thing is Jonas defends much more than Di Maria and look it was really useful last Wednesday to help Papa containing Ribery. I'm not sure Di Maria would have done this defensive work properly.

About Aguero, he wont work as a 9 alone. He needs to be accompanied (like Frutos did with Independiente or Forlan with Atletico) or else, he will underperform.

[Arg10]

v/NC1IaDLrNfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1IaDLrNfs

I recommend everyone to watch this video(click the link to watch in High Quality). The strikers Argentina have today can't do half of what he did. Beautiful one touch goals in mid air, flying headers...

[msi2]

v/NC1IaDLrNfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1IaDLrNfs

I recommend everyone to watch this video(click the link to watch in High Quality). The strikers Argentina have today can't do half of what he did. Beautiful one touch goals in mid air, flying headers...

Man, each time i saw his goals, so many great memories, my favourite player ever for sure... Really shame his international career ended with the 2002 fiasco. :(

[west501]

any of you play a classic Argentina side in Pro Evolution?? :o
if so, what is it?
I used to give Di Stefano the 9, until they took him out of the last editions :mad:
now Bati and Kempes go up front with Diego right behind

[threervana]

I use Bati and Cani up front and Diego Behind:)

[robin9]

Batistuta is easily the best striker i've seen (last ~15 years). I still remember him along with Toldo, Rui Costa and Chiesa playing some epic games like the ones in the group stages of Champions League.

PS: It was a sad day for football when they got disqualified by Holland with that stupid referee.

[west501]

watching some Menotti games recently, and Diego says he is inspired by el Loco, I think we can introduce some flexibility into our lineup by playing with a doble enganche and a flexible striking pair

Higuaín-Agüero-Messi
D'Alessandro-Gago-Masche(c)

with Messi obviously dropping back and D'Alessandro roaming around, Higuaín is just too versatile to overlook at this point
he is doing well at Madrid on the right side of mid and can play a great supporting striker

[threervana]

watching some Menotti games recently, and Diego says he is inspired by el Loco, I think we can introduce some flexibility into our lineup by playing with a doble enganche and a flexible striking pair

Higuaín-Agüero-Messi
D'Alessandro-Gago-Masche(c)

with Messi obviously dropping back and D'Alessandro roaming around, Higuaín is just too versatile to overlook at this point
he is doing well at Madrid on the right side of mid and can play a great supporting striker

This lineup is obviously weak in supporting defence and would easily get crashed by opponents.:D

[west501]

I think one of the keys of Menotti's sides was strong wing play with players like Houseman, Bertoni, Valencia, and Santamaria creating and sometimes keeping play on the sides and allowing for a more interesting horizontal game
right now we are too vertical and concentrated in the middle, where the other teams force us to the side and we look generally uncomfortable and ineffective
if we can dictate horizontal play we can draw opponents out laterally (usually against their weaker defenders) and expose gaps in the middle and opposite side of the pitch
this would be more of a general strategic shift than necessarily a player based one, because we don't have natural wing players of the quality mentioned above
but I still think an association between Messi and D'Alessandro on either side could be interesting, particularly considering that la Pulga plays the side so well with Alves and can shift to the middle in an instant
also, Zárate's ability as a supporting striker/winger deserves mention
I just think we need to get some well defined tactics and rolls on the pitch to be most effective

[Patrick77]

No Romero at the upcoming World Cup Qualifiers.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ilzscz.gif

After 1.5 year, the best goalkeeper in the Dutch League. Few days ago in a cupgame he had his first missers in 1.5 year at AZ Alkmaar, with the 1-1 and later on in that game, with the 1-2 he was coming out what was not necesarry.

After the game he broke his hand while being frustrating about his own perfomance and hit a door into the stadium what will cost him the next couple of weeks in the Dutch League (probably his season is over), where his team is going straight to his first title in more then 25 years and can also forget the WC Qualifiers at the end of the month.

[threervana]

he broke his hand by hitting the door himself???!!!...OMG~~What a cool guy!

[robin9]

If he actually BROKE his hand how is it possible to be back in so few weeks?
Maybe he just injured it.

[Patrick77]

he broke his hand by hitting the door himself???

Can't imagine it was because of the shot, Boukhari 'fired' at him with the equalizer. ;)



If he actually BROKE his hand how is it possible to be back in so few weeks?
Maybe he just injured it.

Wrote allready -in the earlier post- that the season probably would be over for Romero. For sure is that he will miss the upcoming World Cup Qualifiers.

Sad, and on the other side stupid that he can't continue from his very good perfomances he showed at AZ.

Wonderring who Diego will call up for the upcoming games.
Andújar?
Return of Pato in the N.T?

[west501]

Return of Pato in the N.T?

v/tvkZF7E13_A

PATO NOOOO

http://www.infobae.com/adjuntos/imagenes/37/0203718B.jpg

[Arg10]

Oh God, not Pato again. Good thing Carrizo isn't injured.

Is it true that Maradona said he would like to play a 3-3-1-3 with Riquelme as the engache and the three midgets up front?

[DSGB]

Oh God, not Pato again. Good thing Carrizo isn't injured.

Is it true that Maradona said he would like to play a 3-3-1-3 with Riquelme as the engache and the three midgets up front?

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1106318

[threervana]

Hope Ustari would come back soon~~

[Arg10]

Riquelme just quit the National Team. I'll post more on this later.

[west501]

he's done so before, apparently Diego had said he had Román on the list despite criticising him earlier in the week
as I've said, Diego's appointment was always going to be filled with controversy and now we've lost quite possibly our best player
that said, this opens up our tactical possibilities and gives Diego the opportunity to finally give Messi the 10
one of the things Diego wanted to inspire was the love of the shirt that he played with such fervour during his entire international career and many have accused Román of being a 'pecho frío' and not living for the shirt over the years
I'm not sure I agree, but this is certainly big news and imo a negative for Diego, who is really under mounting pressure
can't wait to see that list and I wonder who will replace Riquelme

[DSGB]

I wonder who will replace Riquelme

Impossible. Such a sad day for the team. I understand everyone who says that you should never quit on something you love, but let's all be honest, if Riquelme ever has an autobiography or even a biography, who here wouldn't be interested to see what goes on in his head? He's definitely an interesting individual.

Anyways, hopefully something can be worked out and this won't be the end of Román with the team. I really hope Diego and Román can man up and talk this one out.

[west501]

I was speaking only about the list :rolleyes:
but I agree with what you say, and I'll say the same thing I said last time on 13/9/06:

as sad as I am to see riquelme go, it's for the football he could have given rather than for the football he's been playing lately
he seemed destined to become the new verón, only he's much less self-centred and an all around superior person/player
but it really was not working and he rightfully chose to end something that was going to be really taxing for him, his mother, and not to mention the rest of argentina
riquelme was being misused..you don't build around him, you build without him and let him naturally take control sometimes
he can produce the most sublime football in the world when he's at his best, but you can't go for all or nothing, especially with a player with such a complicated temperament..go for nothing and get everything

I see some opportunities coming out of this because román was not playing well and we have somewhat of a lack of open positions on this team as it is
river rightly points out that it might be time to get a much matured d'alessandro and aimar in there to round out a luxurious midfield
also, I think that if, and this is really an if here, we can build a winning side without him and he continues to mature at club level that he could add a lot to an already functioning team perhaps as a sub in the next world cup
I thought we were certainly through to the semifinal in '06 and that that was going to be riquelme's game..he was going to tear the italians a new one on the way to the final
he may yet get his revenge

wow 2.5 years go by quick..how was my English better then?? :o

[Arg10]

I'm still not sure what to think. There is absolutely no way Riquelme is coming back to the National Team with Diego at the helm. After all, Diego did say that whoever quits will never come back under him.

I'm going to miss him, no doubt... but I think it's for the best. We all know what Riquelme brings to the table, but we also know the cons. For ever pro that he has, there's probably 2-3 cons. I don't know where Diego is gonna go with this, because Argentina without an engache doesn't look too good. Maybe it's time to bring D'Alessandro back? Even though guest's post is 2 years old, I still agree. A matured D'Alessandro can be what this team needs. A playmaker with speed, vision and versatility. Like I said a few posts ago, I'm dying to see D'Alessandro and Messi play together. I might regret those words, but right now it looks pretty good.

Aimar, as much as I love the guy, he cannot be relied on. It's not because he doesn't play 100%, but it's because he's made out of glass. He's a great sub to have, but to actually have him start in a tournament and have him be your playmaker... you better have a hell of a Plan B. Next on the list, Veron. We've beatin this topic to death and I just don't see how we would fit in the team. He's a much slower player than Riquelme(which is saying something) and like I said in the topic in the Football Section, I still haven't forgiven him for 2002.

Damn, that came out longer than I expected. Seeing as how that's not what I just came here to post about. TyC Sports has apparently released a preliminary list of 27 players for the next WCQ.

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo CARRIZO, Mariano ANDUJAR, Federico VILAR (Atlante -Mexico-)

Defenders:
Javier ZANETTI, Martín DEMICHELIS, Daniel DIAZ, Walter SAMUEL, Gastón ANGELERI, Gabriel HEINZE, Juan FORLIN, Emiliano PAPA

Midfielders:
Javier MASCHERANO, Maxi RODRIGUEZ, Jonás GUTIERREZ, Fernando GAGO, Luis GONZALEZ, Angel DI MARIA, Sebastián BATTAGLIA, Juan Sebastián VERON, Daniel MONTENEGRO

Forwards:
Lionel MESSI, Carlos TEVEZ, Lisandro LOPEZ, Sergio AGÜERO, Ezequiel LAVEZZI, Germán DENIS, Diego MILITO

The list is usually cut down to what, 23 players? A few notes:
NO Cambiasso, AGAIN. Battaglia over Cambiasso? Pfft...
DENIS?! Seriously? What?
No D'Alessandro?:(
And our backline... Diaz and Heinze. Double :(

[threervana]

Federico VILAR (Atlante -Mexico-)~~Never heard of him before....

Juan FORLIN, Diego loves Boca kids:P

Daniel MONTENEGRO over Aimar or D'alessadro??? Probably...:(~~He's doing quite well in Indep now..

Would be a bit nice to see Diego MILITO back~~

Wait for the official one~~

[west501]

out of that list I'd like to see

Juampa 'Rocky' Carrizo
Zanetti-DeMichelis-Samuel-Papa
Masche(c)-Gago-Messi
Maxi-Lopez-Agüero

again I call for a much more lateral game up the sides
possibly replace Maxi for Di María and move Messi to the right (positionally..in practise he'll roam)

[threervana]

Where is Jonas??? We def need his wrestling in the midfield~~jaja~~But I also prefer one more Forward~~So Maxi or Jonas~

[Arg10]

The list is out for the Qualifiers...

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo Carrizo (Lazio – Italia)
Mariano Andújar (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Federico Vilar (Atlante – México)

Defenders:
Javier Zanetti (Internazionale – Italia)
Emiliano Papa (Vélez Sársfield - Argentina)
Gabriel Heinze (Real Madrid – España)
Daniel Díaz (Getafe – España)
Walter Samuel (Internazionale – Italia)
Juan Forlín (Boca Juniors – Argentina)
Marcos Angeleri (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Martín Demichelis (Bayern Munich – Alemania)

Midfielders:
Javier Mascherano (Liverpool – Inglaterra)
Fernando Gago (Real Madrid – España)
Maximiliano Rodríguez (Atlético Madrid – España)
Jonás Gutiérrez (Newcastle United – Inglaterra)
Sebastián Battaglia (Boca Juniors – Argentina)
Luis González (Porto – Portugal)
Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Ángel Di María (Benfica – Portugal)
Daniel Montenegro (Independiente – Argentina)

Forwards:
Lionel Messi (Barcelona – España)
Sergio Agüero (Atlético Madrid – España)
Carlos Tevez (Manchester United - Inglaterra)
Lisandro López (Porto – Portugal)
Diego Milito (Genoa – Italia)
Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli – Italia)

Still no Cambiasso which I don't understand.

[threervana]

The only good news is No DENIS!:)

We'll see whether Dolfi would wear the #10....I don't even think Diege would put him in the lineup but Diego claims to give him the glorious #10~~??!!

[west501]

Diego, in all honesty, was a lot better than Messi
so why does he have a problem with giving la Pulga the 10 :confused:

[Arg10]

Diego, in all honesty, was a lot better than Messi
so why does he have a problem with giving la Pulga the 10 :confused:

Not sure it's a problem. From what I've heard Messi said he wants to keep the number 18 and give the 10 to someone else.

Jesus, it seems like any website you go to that has anything to do with Argentina is still talking about the Riquelme/Maradona situation. This is why I miss Pekerman. He brought unity to the group and made sure to exclude those that might try to divide the group. 2 matches in and we already got rid of the only playmaker that can drive this team:( I haven't seen alot from Montenegro(except for a few matches here and there), so I can't give my detailed opinion on him but from what I've seen... he's not even close to Riquelme. If anyone call tell me what to expect from Montenegro, please share.

It's sad to see what the National Team has become. It used to be about playing for the shirt and giving it your all. Now? It's a circus that is managed by, ironically enough, the player who gave everything he had to the team. I know it's only 2 matches in and all, but I miss the classic Argentina style. Beautiful futbol. Futbol you can fall in love with. :(

*goes to watch Argentina vs. Serbia and Montenegro from 2006*

[Arg10]

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/23/seleccion/01882868.html

Messi, just accept the freaking number damnit. I'll kill myself if Veron gets it and I'll be pissed if Montenegro gets it.

Anyone wanna post their prediction for the line-ups? I'm expecting both matches to have the same type of line-up, but maybe a player or two will be changed. Sucks that Demichelis is gonna miss the first match, he was our best player against France.

I'm expecting this from Diego.

---------------Carrizo---------------

Zanetti------Heinze/Samuel------Papa

---------Mascherano---Gago---------

Maxi----Veron/Montenegro----Gutierrez

----------Messi----Aguero/Milito/Lopez

Against Bolivia, it all depends on injuries, yellow cards, red cards(with Tevez's recent record in Qualifiers...) Though I must admit, I would like to see Lucho Gonzalez and Lopez start together. They're partnership in Porto has been really good and would like to see it with the National Team.

[west501]

I think we'll see the following

Juampa 'JC' Carrizo
Zanetti-Díaz-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Masche(c)-Gago-Gutierrez
Agüero-Messi(10)

the 10 should go to Messi, but if he hesitates, might it go Agüero??

[DSGB]

I think we'll see the following

Juampa 'JC' Carrizo
Zanetti-Díaz-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Masche(c)-Gago-Gutierrez
Agüero-Messi(10)

the 10 should go to Messi, but if he hesitates, might it go Agüero??

Lol, is it a small inside joke to change Carrizo's nickname every time?

[west501]

Lol, is it a small inside joke to change Carrizo's nickname every time?

I don't know what you're talking about :o

apparently Diego is talking about going with a line of 3 in the back: Carrizo, Díaz, Angeleri, Heinze; Maxi Rodríguez, Gago, Mascherano, Jonás Gutiérrez; Messi, Agüero y Tevez. (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/24/seleccion/01883657.html)

[msi2]

The list is out for the Qualifiers...

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo Carrizo (Lazio – Italia)
Mariano Andújar (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Federico Vilar (Atlante – México)

Defenders:
Javier Zanetti (Internazionale – Italia)
Emiliano Papa (Vélez Sársfield - Argentina)
Gabriel Heinze (Real Madrid – España)
Daniel Díaz (Getafe – España)
Walter Samuel (Internazionale – Italia)
Juan Forlín (Boca Juniors – Argentina)
Marcos Angeleri (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Martín Demichelis (Bayern Munich – Alemania)

Midfielders:
Javier Mascherano (Liverpool – Inglaterra)
Fernando Gago (Real Madrid – España)
Maximiliano Rodríguez (Atlético Madrid – España)
Jonás Gutiérrez (Newcastle United – Inglaterra)
Sebastián Battaglia (Boca Juniors – Argentina)
Luis González (Porto – Portugal)
Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata – Argentina)
Ángel Di María (Benfica – Portugal)
Daniel Montenegro (Independiente – Argentina)

Forwards:
Lionel Messi (Barcelona – España)
Sergio Agüero (Atlético Madrid – España)
Carlos Tevez (Manchester United - Inglaterra)
Lisandro López (Porto – Portugal)
Diego Milito (Genoa – Italia)
Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli – Italia)

Still no Cambiasso which I don't understand.

He probably doesnt like him... like he had no use of Riquelme but unlike Riquelme, he can just drop him off the squad and no one will care since Cambiasso was one of the most unpopular player of the NT so...

EDIT:

In fact, this list is disappointing in certain aspects (not because Cambiasso is missing) but i would like to see more of the local players (not the likes of Battaglia but more like Bernardello (Newell's), Maxi Moralez, Sebastian Blanco (at the moment injured) and the likes...)

[msi2]

Funny stuff looking back last October:

http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50425&page=84

:D

[Arg10]

Funny stuff looking back last October:

http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50425&page=84

:D

Haha, you got the line-up spot on(if the rumors are correct that Angeleri will start ahead of Zanetti). Though not sure if Di Maria will start ahead of Gutierrez.

Strong rumors are going around that the front line will be Messi, Aguero and Tevez. Not sure I like it that much. We saw what happened against Bolivia(yes we smoked them but they didn't play well together). I guess we'll just have to wait.

[west501]

I think we should give Licha Lopez a chance
the problem for the centre forward position is that you have to commit to start a targetman there and he'll produce as he becomes comfortable in the role
these would be two good teams to experiment with though I have to say I am feeling very bad about our chances to win in Bolivia
last time was a miracle

[msi2]

How do you feel the game that's coming?

I dunno myself... Just want to win it and then Bolivia come just after.

[west501]

the populares just sold out, there is huge expectation for this match
I really hope it's an emphatic goleada, al a debut de Pekerman, with Messi with the 10 to get some momentum going to overtake Paraguay at the top
vamos pibes

los Paraguas have difficult visit to el Centenario and los Brasileros have to deal with the height of Quito
with a little help from our hosting friends we can get within 4 of the top!

[Arg10]

I'm expecting big things from this game. I heard the match is sold out even with prices increasing by 35% from the last Qualifier game.

Diego really seems to have them motivated for this one, which is why I'm predicting a 3-0 win. Maybe even 4-0. I don't care who plays in defense, there is no reason to leak goals to Venezuela. We didn't leak them IN Venezuela, there is no reason to let some in now. And depending on how the game goes, I'd like to give Lucho Gonzalez a shot maybe in the second half. I'm also expecting Messi to come off sometime during the second half because I'd imagine Diego wants to save him for Bolivia(playing at altitude and all).

Vamos Diego, Vamos Argentina.

[west501]

I am so happy for Messi, who looked like he'd worn the 10 since he was 18. A lot of people argued he could have gotten it for the world cup 2006. That goal that he missed at the end will be remembered as a taste of what we'll see with him and this new responsibility.

That said I thought the scoreline flattered us, with at least 2 counterattack goals, and Venezuela really didn't even try to play. The fact that there was only one side on the pitch took from the spectacle and I must say I was bored to tears in the first half. We need an eje in the midfield almost more than a 9 at this point, because if the chiquitos can essentially do it themselves as they did in this match, imagine what they'll do with a midfield that also creates space!
Possible solutions:
Verón is just in incredible form and in great shape for his age. He may make the world cup squad if he can get some regularity and stay away from the niggling injuries, that did prevent him from winning anything with Estudiantes, but did not prevent him from winning the South American Player of the Year.
D'Alessandro convinced me in the Sudamericana that he can fill this role for the national team. I look forward to seeing him back with the seleccion soon.
Aimar made another bad transfer, imo, and remains to the side of the squad. I have the feeling if he has a good close to the season and does well in 09-10, we may see him selected.
Anyone else? A lot has been said about the death of the enganche. It is not beyond the abilities of players like Messi and Gago to mature into the role and take charge of the central midfield. This is what Diego could do since he first started with the national team, and hopefully he can coach Messi into controlling the game in a similar fashion.
And how amazing was Di María? I don't know if he should start, but he is a guaranteed 20 minute sub for me.
I'm not a Jonas guy either. He leaves a lot on the pitch, but doesn't bring as much as I'd like.

As you can tell, I am worried about the midfield and think that once we take off a forward to play with four in the back, Messi will be forced to come back and Agüero/Tévez will be very alone and neutralised up there.
It was a huge match for Messi/Agüero/Tévez, who had something to do with each goal, but the midfield did little. Zanetti was amazing in defence, his run that led to the first goal was just amazing. Como grité ese gol.

edit:
As for the match with Bolivia we have 3 players unable to play. Gutierrez is suspended and Lavezzi and Milito are injured, but will still make the trip to Bolivia. Micho is set to come back.
I expect to see:

JP 'Goldfinger' Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Masche(c)-Gago-Di María
Messi-Kun

Even though I know it's not going to happen, since this is one where we're expected to drop points anyway, maybe we could try Lucho-Licha over Maxi-Kun, as the Aleti players both looked quite tired on Saturday.

[Arg10]

The Messi era has officialy begun. Unless something happens, this is the team in 2010.

Yes it was Venezuela and yes it was at home, but that match showed that these guys will do anything for Diego. I'm really liking what he's doing with the team. But there are some things that I would like to see. Like guest mentioned, if we can get someone for Messi to feed off of, we would be even better. D'Alessandro comes to mind. I've already mentioned this before, but I'm dying to see D'Alessandro link-up with Messi. He has alot more speed than Riquelme and will track back to defend and if there's one person who can put D'Alessandro in his place, it's Diego. But we'll see in the next few friendlys/Qualifiers if Diego will call him up.

As for the match, Aguero had a poor match. His goal was nice, but the goalkeeper gifted it to him at the same time. At times it looked like we were just playing with Tevez and Messi up front. Speaking of which, Tevez finally scored for Argentina! Easily one of his best matches with the National Team, ever. Midfield was solid. Maxi was quiet at first but with Messi getting marked tightly, the passes began to go towards Maxi which forced him to get in the game. Gutierrez is someone that you need. He does the dirty work. I know guest that you said he doesn't bring as much as you like but I think he's playing the way Diego was him to play. Track back and help in defense when needed(watch the match against France, he defended more than Papa!) and attacked when needed. In any case, he'll be suspended for the match against Bolivia which I'll give my opinion on in a bit.

Mascherano was a beast, but Gago had a bad game. Not as bad as Aguero, but close. I really thought this was going to be the match where Gago would move forward and show us what he can do in attack(mostly in passing). And as much as I praise him for his defensive duties, he has a long way to go in attack. His passing is bad and he didn't even look good going forward against VENEZUELA!

I'm expecting this against Bolivia:

Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Heinze-Papa
Maxi-Mascherano-Gago-Di María
Messi-Tevez

But I'd like to see Lucho and Lopez get a shot. If Lopez starts(which right now doesn't look like it) then I think you have to start Lucho. For me, it doesn't matter who starts on the wing against Bolivia because I want to see what Di Maria can do with the NT and what Lucho can do, given that he starts the match. Up front, I'd LIKE to see Lopez start, but it'll be Tevez.

[west501]

But I'd like to see Lucho and Lopez get a shot. If Lopez starts(which right now doesn't look like it) then I think you have to start Lucho. For me, it doesn't matter who starts on the wing against Bolivia because I want to see what Di Maria can do with the NT and what Lucho can do, given that he starts the match. Up front, I'd LIKE to see Lopez start, but it'll be Tevez.

they say great minds think alike
and apparently Diego has in mind the following:
Carrizo, Zanetti, Demichelis, Heinze, Papa; Maxi Rodríguez, Mascherano, Gago, Di María; Messi y Agüero o Tevez (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/30/seleccion/01887924.html)
I am undecided on whether he's a great mind though :p

[Arg10]

they say great minds think alike
and apparently Diego has in mind the following:
Carrizo, Zanetti, Demichelis, Heinze, Papa; Maxi Rodríguez, Mascherano, Gago, Di María; Messi y Agüero o Tevez (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/30/seleccion/01887924.html)
I am undecided on whether he's a great mind though :p

I'm expecting that to be honest. I'd like to see Lucho like I said, but I doubt we'll see it. I'm not sure who I want to start between Aguero and Tevez.

If Aguero starts:
Cons: He's gonna waste a few chances.
Pros: Tevez will be a spark off the bench.

If Tevez starts:
Cons: We have no one on the bench who can bring some energy to the team.
Pros: He'll run his ass off and in altitude we're gonna need that.

Not sure who I want, but I'm leaning more towards Tevez starting.

[west501]

looks like our calls for Lucho have been answered as he will replace Di María (source (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/03/31/seleccion/01888552.html))
the formation will be
Juampa 'en la altura la pelota no entra' Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Heinze-Papa
Lucho-Masche(c)-Gago-Maxi
Tévez-Messi

[msi2]

Une lastima la defensa...

Unbelievable... this must be an april fool joke, right?

An historic goleada at La Paz.... 6-1!

Oh boy, just going to sleep!

[west501]

I think this kind of defeat is good
we've usually gone through the eliminatorias without tasting real defeat, but hopefully this will toughen the boys up and get Heinze/Papa out of the team
and I told you I was worried about the midfield, didn't I?
this is what can happen if you put a tactically unsophisticated squad out against a squad that can take advantage of your weaknesses
granted it was Bolivia en Bolivia but eventually we would be outclassed by someone and I'm glad it was in Diego's second match and it gives us time to prepare what could be a make or break September

[Arg10]

I think this kind of defeat is good
we've usually gone through the eliminatorias without tasting real defeat, but hopefully this will toughen the boys up and get Heinze/Papa out of the team and I told you I was worried about the midfield, didn't I?
this is what can happen if you put a tactically unsophisticated squad out against a squad that can take advantage of your weaknesses
granted it was Bolivia en Bolivia but eventually we would be outclassed by someone and I'm glad it was in Diego's second match and it gives us time to prepare what could be a make or break September

Spot on. We need to give Monzon a shot on the left. He's been doing pretty well from what I've seen. Pareja, Zabaleta and even Fazio need to start getting some minutes. Enough of this Heinze, Papa, Samuel(even though he didn't play) crap... we need some young, fresh, GOOD defenders. It's good that this loss came now as opposed to later(September or even the World Cup). Our midfield just looks flat. Mascherano and Gago are already 50% of the midfield. Maxi and Gutierrez are not creative midfielders. Gutierrez will be there to do the dirty work, but Maxi has been too inconsistent for my liking. He did nothing against France and did even less against Bolivia. Heck, how's Arca doing with Middlesbrough? He can't be worse than Heinze/Papa.

My list for the next Qualifiers...

Carrizo, Leo Franco, Romero
Monzon, Pareja, Fazio, Zabaleta, Demichelis, Angeleri, Zanetti, Gonzalo
D'Alessandro, Cambiasso, Mascherano, Gago, Gutierrez, Di Maria, Maxi
Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Higuain, Milito, Lopez, Cavenaghi

Heinze and Papa got skinned alive against Bolivia, Zanetti had a bad game, Mascherano was quiet, Messi and Tevez were gassed out by half time, Maxi and Lucho were walking the entire game... Carrizo gave us a chance to stay in the game and we blew it. Gago and Demichelis were the only players who decided to show up. We have enough talent to have 2, heck even 3 different teams. Use it. There's no need to play the same guys twice in 4 days, when one of which is at altitude.

[sportsmen]

2226: One final thing, Bolivia beat Argentina 6-1.
Wow. When I read this I was almost certain it was April Fool's joke.

[Aimar-21]

I've said it in some pages before in this topic.
There is a problem at the back.

For me Carrizo is not a GK for the national squad. All these super-hyped new goalies have been nothing but disappointing until now. Lux, Carrizo, Ustari etc

And of course I had said about the defense with the likes of Heinze, De Michelis etc. Unfortunately no good new DCs have come in the last years. After Ayala's performance started to decline, Argentina has suffered some notorious defeats.


PS Sebastian Saja es Argentino !!

[msi2]

I think this kind of defeat is good



Only if the good questions are asked and the right answers are found... Obviously if we do like in 1993, then i dont expect a lot for the future unfortunately.

Heinze, no puede mas el muchacho.

And yes while good at a club-level (at River because even at Lazio he cant even make it), Carrizo is not world-class, barely even NT material unfortunately. He's there because there's not better around... Just look at the level of the goalies in the local league, simply shambolic.
I have a question, how much time didnt we have a true NT level goalkeeper? Carlos Roa maybe, that was in 1998...

About Ayala, you have to wonder now why Diego tried to bring him back a few months ago... :rolleyes:

Also, i think this has to be said. I wasnt too happy with the way the whole Roman affair was conducted and i'm pretty sure he could have helped a lot by doing what he has been so critized to do for... what is it? Slowing down the tempo by ball possession.

Another thing has to be said too. Enough of over confidence. We have done nothing right now, we need more humility and proving our quality on the pitch at the right moment, not on the papers if you know what i mean... :rolleyes:

We need also a generational change behind, unfortunately, the job has been done before so now we are stuck with some old geezers until 2010. Good job! :rolleyes:

Well so much to do, not a lot of time.

I've said it in some pages before in this topic.
There is a problem at the back.

For me Carrizo is not a GK for the national squad. All these super-hyped new goalies have been nothing but disappointing until now. Lux, Carrizo, Ustari etc

And of course I had said about the defense with the likes of Heinze, De Michelis etc. Unfortunately no good new DCs have come in the last years. After Ayala's performance started to decline, Argentina has suffered some notorious defeats.


PS Sebastian Saja es Argentino !!

Btw how Agustin Pelletieri is performing there?

[robin9]

Btw how Agustin Pelletieri is performing there?He's showed some flashes of a very good footballer, but generally he's been mediocre. The transition from S.America to Europe always takes time and AEK hadn't the best run this season.

[Arg10]

About Ayala, you have to wonder now why Diego tried to bring him back a few months ago... :rolleyes:

I think that speaks volumes about our defense... or lack there of. The sad part is that I would take a Demichelis---Ayala partnership over a Demichelis---Heinze partnership. Our defense is missing leadership. I know we have Mascherano and Zanetti, but Ayala was a leader for me. Watch some of his matches, he would yell at his defenders and tell them to settle down and focus.

Another thing about our defense is the physical game. Heinze is physical, but damnit can you imagine Papa going up against a player the size of Ballack or Schweinsteiger? They would eat him alive. This loss goes way beyond altitude. We got exposed in every part of the game. Messi and Tevez need someone else to play alongside them(Milito, Lopez...) You can't play only those 2 together up front. And when Mascherano has a bad game, the entire midfield has a bad game.

I hate to keep bringing Pekerman up, but Diego can really learn from him. Pekerman used 2 different teams in the Qualifiers. If I'm not mistaken the last time we beat Bolivia at La Paz(in 2005) with Pekerman we played the counter-attacking game. We defended properly and hit them on the counter-attack. Against Bolivia, we needed a playmaker/someone who'll keep possession and hit them on the counterattack. Diego brought an attacking team against Bolivia and playing at altitude you can't do that. Montenegro for Maxi or Lucho would of been good. Our next matches are not going to be easy either. We have Colombia at home and Ecuador at Quito. Play 2 different teams. Hopefully Diego learnt something from the Bolivia game.

[west501]

Only if the good questions are asked and the right answers are found... Obviously if we do like in 1993, then i dont expect a lot for the future unfortunately.


well in 93 Basile responded by getting Diego out of retirement
maybe Diego will respond by getting Román out of retirement :o

The question the press (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/04/03/seleccion/01890364.html) is asking now is about the state of the working relationship of Diego and Bilardo, which is known to have soured. It has become painfully obvious in the last 3 matches that Bilardo has been completely marginalised because you know el Narigón would have gone for the scoreless draw in La Paz. I'm telling you, the infighting Diego brings to the selección worries me greatly. He's rejected the 'class of 86' on the bench already, he's reduced Bilardo to nothing, and he's surrounded himself with sycophants like Mancuso who are little-more than Diego-worshippers and yes-men who were there during his bad times.
At this point it has come back to Diego personally for the first time, with his stunning lack of professionalism and general behaviour as our coach exposing the farcical nature of his appointment. How he reacts to this is of utmost importance. If he backs into a corner and isolates himself further, we will not recover from this. If he admits his fallibility and incorporates his advisors as equals, we can move forward and improve. I'm cynical because a shared approach is very difficult/impossible to achieve, particularly in this situation. :-|

edit:
Bilardo throws water on the flames (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/04/04/seleccion/01890864.html). He claims everything is ok with Diego, but also admits his isolation...

[msi2]

Indeed the numbers of issues are growing and this is really worrying right now (vs. Batista, vs. Bilardo, vs. Grondona for Ruggeri, vs. Riquelme... who's next?).

EDIT:

guest, i have sent you a pm, very important. ;)

EDIT2:

Man, Leo Franco sucks.... forget about him.

EDIT3:

El nivel de los arqueros argentinos, un desastre... :(

[msi2]

I want Hiddink for the NT! :D :p

But seriously he's an awesome DT! :eek:

[Arg10]

I
Man, Leo Franco sucks.... forget about him.

He has his moments, yeah. As much as I like Carrizo(and as much as guest absolutely adores the ground he walks on), we need a goalkeeper who gets regular playing time. He was rusty against Bolivia(yet still made good saves) but he can be even better. I still think we should give Romero a shot once he comes back from injury. He's really promising.

Hiddink as NT coach, I see you just watched Liverpool/Chelsea? Haha, I still think we should try and bring back Pekerman. Stupid subs and all, I would still take him over Diego.

[msi2]

He has his moments, yeah. As much as I like Carrizo(and as much as guest absolutely adores the ground he walks on), we need a goalkeeper who gets regular playing time. He was rusty against Bolivia(yet still made good saves) but he can be even better. I still think we should give Romero a shot once he comes back from injury. He's really promising.

Hiddink as NT coach, I see you just watched Liverpool/Chelsea? Haha, I still think we should try and bring back Pekerman. Stupid subs and all, I would still take him over Diego.

As long as Grondona is there you can forget about Pekerman. The main problem with the NT and the argentinian football in general is Grondona and the rest of AFA.

[Arg10]

As long as Grondona is there you can forget about Pekerman. The main problem with the NT and the argentinian football in general is Grondona and the rest of AFA.

Wishful thinking I know:( What are the odds of Grondona stepping down? This generation and the next generation of players are suffering and will suffer with him at the helm. It's sad, but all this talent is being wasted because of a money hungry FA. Oh and there's also his son that will probably take over after him. Jesus...

[msi2]

On a general matter, there are missing a lot of things in this selection to be really competitive. We lack world class young side backs (Zanetti is really getting old and showing some fissures and we have basically noone on the left side), we have a lack of really reliable new center backs (well some interesting are coming in the local league, such as Forlin, but they are too young and inexperienced right now), which is making us sticking with Heinze and "Caca" Diaz. The alternatives are Colocinni and Burdisso.... what a treat... :rolleyes: :o
I forgot G.Milito. I'm not excited either by him.

The defensive midfield we have Mascherano, Gago, Cambiasso, we can do with them. But we need someone more creative and the only guy i'm seeing that comes close to that is Veron. But he's old, oftenly injured and will he able to able to stay fit until the next WC?
A damn shame Banega is struggling right now, because he would be very useful right now. I hope the likes of Battaglia dont return in the team or even Ledesma.
For the outside midfielders, what do we have? Jonas and Maxi. Personally I like the first one, especially for his defensive workrate. I'm wondering if he could take the LB spot at least temporarily. Maxi,on the other hand has a slump of form as of late and this is not good at all.
Other alternatives are from the local league, mainly Blanco, Valeri from Lanus. They are talented, especially Blanco, but going from Lanus from to the NT is something else. Will they be able to keep their club-form and not doing like so many other players do these days, being great at club level and shit at international level??
BTW, if anyone has other names that i'm forgetting please tell. :D
About the playmaker solution, since now Riquelme is out, we have the choice between Aimar, D'Alessandro, Luis Gonzalez... Aimar is looking more and more as an ex-player each day passing. Too injury-proned, his time has passed. For D'Ale, he might have a last chance in one year and a half depending on what Diego will do. Massive waste of talent for sure and certainly not what we were expecting when they became world champions in 2001. Disappointing for sure. As for Lucho, can someone tell me the last time he performed accordingly to his talent?
As we see, not thrilling either in that department.

I will write about the forwards issue later.

Can you imagine? Bolivia had 22 clear chances, 22!

[Arg10]

I see your Colocinni and rase you a Lionel Scaloni! Seriously though, here's a list of defenders than might have a shot at the National Team or are playing with the National Team.

Zanetti, Angeleri, Heinze, Diaz, Papa, Colocinni, Burdisso, Diaz, Samuel, Demichelis, Sorin(hey if Heinze and Papa get to play with the NT, so does Juampi!), G. Milito, Monzon, Zabaleta, Fazio, Pareja, Garay, Forlin and finally Gonzalo.

The ones I would LIKE to see on the team...
Right Backs: Zanetti, Angeleri, Zabaleta
Center Backs: Demichelis, Forlin, Fazio, Garay, Pareja, Gonzalo, Milito
Left Backs: Monzon, Sorin

We have to start breeding some young players(Zabaleta, Monzon, Garay, etc...) I know World Cup Qualifiers is not the time to experiment, but seriously, I'll take an unexperienced Monzon, Forlin, Fazio, Garay and Pareja over Heinze and Papa any day.

Midfield:
Mascherano, Gago, Cambiasso, Maxi, Jonas, Battaglia, Lucho, Veron, Di Maria, Montenegro, D'Alessandro, Aimar, Seba Blanco and Valeri(like you mentioned).

Maxi has been too inconsistent for the NT lately and seems to be injury proned/gets tired easily. So we need an alternative on the right. If I remember correctly, D'Alessandro can play on the right, so why not give him a chance? Banega has no future with this NT at all. He's talented, don't get me wrong... but he's stupid. He's gotten like 5 red cards this season and 95% of the time he's a substitute. Maxi Moralez I haven't seen him play in about a year so I can't comment.

Up front...
Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Lopez, Milito, Lavezzi, Higuain

Against Colombia(at home) I'd like to see...

Zanetti---------Demichelis---Gonzalo-------Monzon
-------------Mascherano---Gago-------------------
Messi-------------D'Alessandro----------Gutierrez
----------Aguero/Higuain------Lopez--------------

A more attacking approach starting from the back with Zanetti, Messi on the wings, D'Alessandro in the middle and giving Higuain a shot.

Against Ecuador...

Angeleri/Zabaleta---Demichelis---Gonzalo---Monzon
-------------Mascherano---Cambiasso--------------
Maxi-----------Montenegro/Veron---------Gutierrez
--------------Messi------Tevez-------------------

A more defensive approach. Montenegro/Vern to hold possession of the ball when needed. Maxi and Gutierrez to track back which will help in absorbing some of the pressure(can't forget it's at altitude) and Messi with Tevez up front.

Damn, that was a long post. But since I have some free time... more to come after the Estudiantes/Cruzeiro match which BTW I'm dying to see Veron vs. Sorin.

[threervana]

I see your Colocinni and rase you a Lionel Scaloni! Seriously though, here's a list of defenders than might have a shot at the National Team or are playing with the National Team.

Zanetti, Angeleri, Heinze, Diaz, Papa, Colocinni, Burdisso, Diaz, Samuel, Demichelis, Sorin(hey if Heinze and Papa get to play with the NT, so does Juampi!), G. Milito, Monzon, Zabaleta, Fazio, Pareja, Garay, Forlin and finally Gonzalo.

The ones I would LIKE to see on the team...
Right Backs: Zanetti, Angeleri, Zabaleta
Center Backs: Demichelis, Forlin, Fazio, Garay, Pareja, Gonzalo, Milito
Left Backs: Monzon, Sorin

We have to start breeding some young players(Zabaleta, Monzon, Garay, etc...) I know World Cup Qualifiers is not the time to experiment, but seriously, I'll take an unexperienced Monzon, Forlin, Fazio, Garay and Pareja over Heinze and Papa any day.

Midfield:
Mascherano, Gago, Cambiasso, Maxi, Jonas, Battaglia, Lucho, Veron, Di Maria, Montenegro, D'Alessandro, Aimar, Seba Blanco and Valeri(like you mentioned).

Maxi has been too inconsistent for the NT lately and seems to be injury proned/gets tired easily. So we need an alternative on the right. If I remember correctly, D'Alessandro can play on the right, so why not give him a chance? Banega has no future with this NT at all. He's talented, don't get me wrong... but he's stupid. He's gotten like 5 red cards this season and 95% of the time he's a substitute. Maxi Moralez I haven't seen him play in about a year so I can't comment.

Up front...
Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Lopez, Milito, Lavezzi, Higuain

Against Colombia(at home) I'd like to see...

Zanetti---------Demichelis---Gonzalo-------Monzon
-------------Mascherano---Gago-------------------
Messi-------------D'Alessandro----------Gutierrez
----------Aguero/Higuain------Lopez--------------

A more attacking approach starting from the back with Zanetti, Messi on the wings, D'Alessandro in the middle and giving Higuain a shot.

Against Ecuador...

Angeleri/Zabaleta---Demichelis---Gonzalo---Monzon
-------------Mascherano---Cambiasso--------------
Maxi-----------Montenegro/Veron---------Gutierrez
--------------Messi------Tevez-------------------

A more defensive approach. Montenegro/Vern to hold possession of the ball when needed. Maxi and Gutierrez to track back which will help in absorbing some of the pressure(can't forget it's at altitude) and Messi with Tevez up front.

Damn, that was a long post. But since I have some free time... more to come after the Estudiantes/Cruzeiro match which BTW I'm dying to see Veron vs. Sorin.

What a 4232:D

[Arg10]

What a 4232:D

I knew something didn't make sense. Thats what happens when I don't write Carrizo's name. Updated to look like this...

Against Colombia:
--------------------Carrizo------------------------
Zanetti---------Demichelis---Gonzalo-------Monzon
Messi---D'Alessandro--Mascherano--------Gutierrez
----------Aguero/Higuain-----------Lopez---------

Same concept. Attacking approach against Colombia...

Against Ecuador:
--------------------Carrizo------------------------
Angeleri/Zabaleta---Demichelis---Gonzalo---Monzon
Maxi----Montenegro/Veron----Mascherano----Gutierrez
--------------Messi------Tevez-------------------

More defensive against Ecuador.

[msi2]

Where's that 2007 generation? They need to develop fast! :o

[Arg10]

Where's that 2007 generation? They need to develop fast! :o

Romero, Insua, Aguero, Fazio, Di Maria and Zarate have a shot at the National Team. Banega and Moralez have not done anything since. And Piatti and Acosta have a shitload of players ahead of them in the pecking order.

But yeah, it's nothing like the previous years. Franco, Samuel, Cambiasso, Riquelme and Aimar all in 1997 while Saviola, Maxi and D'Alessandro came in 2001.

:(

[msi2]

Romero, Insua, Aguero, Fazio, Di Maria and Zarate have a shot at the National Team. Banega and Moralez have not done anything since. And Piatti and Acosta have a shitload of players ahead of them in the pecking order.

But yeah, it's nothing like the previous years. Franco, Samuel, Cambiasso, Riquelme and Aimar all in 1997 while Saviola, Maxi and D'Alessandro came in 2001.

:(

Hm, you're wrong about Moralez, he's doing really fine at Velez right now. He managed to escape Russia and staying in Argentina, he went from Racing to Velez (best move ever) and he's playing putting good to excellent performances so far. But yeah about Banega, a damn shame he's struggling right now. Apparently, he's linked to a Napoli move.

Among this generation, dont forget Escudero! This kid is magic when he's on!!!

[west501]

Juampa 'en la altura la pelota no entra' Carrizo


He has his moments, yeah. As much as I like Carrizo(and as much as guest absolutely adores the ground he walks on), we need a goalkeeper who gets regular playing time.

not his finest hour..I might be wrong (mostly because of Pato's infinite mediocrity) but imo this kid has the skill, the heart, and the presence to lead our defence from the back line
he pulled out a couple of phenomenal stops in both matches and I think stability for the number 1 is what we need right now..we can't have this ambiguity with the 1 and the 9, it's killing us, and here imo the choice is quite clear

What a 4232:D

ajajaja, in those formations I'd give the gloves to Gago, make the kid run :p

and because I can't resist

contra Colombia
Juampa 'and the beat goes on' Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Milito-Monzon
Mache(c)-Gago
Messi-D'Alessandro
Aguero-Lopez/Tevez

contra Ecuador
Juampa 'lo de La Paz fue un accidente total' Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Milito-Monzon
Zabaleta-Masche(c)-Cambiasso
Montenegro
Messi-Higuain

for left back we have Monzon, we also have Insua as a sub and even Clemente..we need a squad player for that role..Papa, aside from being tiny, doesn't fit the shirt
Gago was accelerated in La Paz, let's give him a break in Quito
Higuain, Rolfi, Monzon, and Zabaleta have cannons for shots and we should aim for 10 shots per half on the counter attack

[msi2]

Oh well so much work to do...

[msi2]

I have a question, is there a reason why we have been unabled to get a new promising striker in the last years? :confused:
I mean even Uruguay has Cavani...

[west501]

Agüero, Zárate, Higuaín are a few from the class of Cavani
but I know you're talking about a 9
I'm giving it to Higuaín and putting him and Agüero up front with Messi just behind

[Arg10]

Agüero, Zárate, Higuaín are a few from the class of Cavani
but I know you're talking about a 9
I'm giving it to Higuaín and putting him and Agüero up front with Messi just behind

See the thing about Higuain is that he's not exactly an out and out #9 like Crespo, Cavenaghi, Milito and to some extent Lopez, but I think if given the proper chance, he could do well.

I would play Aguero behind Higuain(since that's where Aguero is usually at his best) or even Higuain behind Lopez.

Did anyone hear anything about a friendly against Paraguay next month? Diego is supposed to call-up domestic players only(and hopefully D'Alessandro).

[west501]

that's true, but what we need is to come up with a system and stick with it
remember how well Bielsa did with Tévez essentially alone up front in the 2004 olympics
that was because the role was so well coached into the team that a player like Tévez could do nothing but excel
Pekerman, from day one, changed from the winger targetman to the 7-9 Saviola-Crespo, with the striker-targetman roles very clearly defined
Basile never solved the front and I guess Maradona has chosen the midgets as well
my view is it's difficult to just put out two players (Agüero-Tévez) who essentially play the same position unless you coach them into tactically feeding off of one another
even in the match vs. Venezuela, it was very much driven by individual brilliance rather than good communication between the strikers and the midfield

[Arg10]

that's true, but what we need is to come up with a system and stick with it
remember how well Bielsa did with Tévez essentially alone up front in the 2004 olympics
that was because the role was so well coached into the team that a player like Tévez could do nothing but excel
Pekerman, from day one, changed from the winger targetman to the 7-9 Saviola-Crespo, with the striker-targetman roles very clearly defined
Basile never solved the front and I guess Maradona has chosen the midgets as well
my view is it's difficult to just put out two players (Agüero-Tévez) who essentially play the same position unless you coach them into tactically feeding off of one another
even in the match vs. Venezuela, it was very much driven by individual brilliance rather than good communication between the strikers and the midfield

Sad isn't it? We go from 2 of the best coaches we've had in recent times to Basile and Diego:(

Bielsa was(dare I say) one of the best tacticians we've ever had(just look at how well Chile is doing) and Pekerman can take any team and coach it to play the most beautiful futbol you'll see in your life. Basile just took 11 players and told them to go play while Diego is essentially doing the same, but a bit better so far(atleast he never considered calling up Palermo).

[west501]

(atleast he never considered calling up Palermo).

don't jinx it, mate :p

[Arg10]

don't jinx it, mate :p

There would only be 1 reason to call-up Palermo and that would be when Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Higuain, Zarate, Denis, Lavezzi, Crespo, Sand, Palacio, Cruz, Saviola, KEMPES, DI STEFANO and BATISTUTA all die. Even then I would rather see Diego play as a forward then seeing Palermo get called up.

[msi2]

Agüero, Zárate, Higuaín are a few from the class of Cavani
but I know you're talking about a 9
I'm giving it to Higuaín and putting him and Agüero up front with Messi just behind

Aguero has been nothing of disappoiting so far with the NT. Zarate and Higuain are kind of unproven at international level. And anyway they are more of the same, Zarate is not a target man nor is Higuain.

[west501]

Aguero has been nothing of disappoiting so far with the NT.

yes, but he is still a genius...
we have to see, because his genius is so overshadowed next to Messi, if he will be another Ramón Díaz
remember Valdano, as great a player as he was, was certainly not the first choice and was not the typical targetman
this is evidenced by his brilliant goal against Germany in 86, where he starts dribbling by his own area in the play that ends up in the opposing goal

[msi2]

A player that has be followed for the next years is Matias De Federico from Huracan (20y old). This kid is truly awesome in his way of playing. I have watched the highlightsof Independiente - Huracan and the truth he's the most exciting apparition from this Clausura 2009.

Will that ever end? :o

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/04/14/seleccion/01897437.html

La novela riquelme...

[Arg10]

A player that has be followed for the next years is Matias De Federico from Huracan (20y old). This kid is truly awesome in his way of playing. I have watched the highlightsof Independiente - Huracan and the truth he's the most exciting apparition from this Clausura 2009.

Will that ever end? :o

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/04/14/seleccion/01897437.html

La novela riquelme...

And the telenovela continues...

[west501]

de Federico has been having a huge semestre, particularly against Racing and Lanus
he's short, tricky, left-footed..he's got the next Maradona written all over him :o or is it the next Messi :p
he reminds me a little bit of Pablo Piatti, who is another interesting Messi clone that could be a good sub for the national team

as for Riquelme, I have the theory that he made the decision hastily, maybe even during the interview and Diego said what he said definitely during the interview and Grondona hired Diego also maybe during the interview
why can't we have someone that is thoughtful :confused:

[msi2]

Its off-topic, i dont know but am i the only one who thinks this CL is getting boring with always the same damn confrontation? :confused:

EDIT:

After having watched the Arsenal - Villarreal highlights, i'm not even sure if i want Gonzalo to be called. His constant injuries seem to have affected him quite badly. He was poor.

EDIT2:

And if that wasnt enough, that almost unthinkable question is now asked:

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2009/04/02/1188627/south-american-debate-will-argentina-fail-to-qualify-for-the-worl

[west501]

it's highly unlikely that we won't make the cup
in fact, apart from a few shuffles in the order, I think the 5 teams currently at the top will all be in South Africa 2010
Colombia and Ecuador are unlikely to break into the top 5, Bolivia are less likely, and for Peru it's simply impossible
I expect to see Paraguay lose 1st place to Brazil in the next rounds and for us to pull closer to the two of them in September (when we face them both)
the top 3 spots will be close, I'd say Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile will be how it ends up

[west501]

There would only be 1 reason to call-up Palermo and that would be when Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Higuain, Zarate, Denis, Lavezzi, Crespo, Sand, Palacio, Cruz, Saviola, KEMPES, DI STEFANO and BATISTUTA all die. Even then I would rather see Diego play as a forward then seeing Palermo get called up.

Palermo comes back to the national team (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/04/16/seleccion/01899429.html)
if there was one thing that could be worse than the 1-6 it's this
tamos jodidos, jajaja :o

Palermo's 3 #1 hits (in Colombia)
v/8N2vlD7qmA4

[msi2]

Not a single River Plate player... Just shows how poor our team is....

In 1999, at least half the team could have been easily called, now the only player worth a call would be Falcao, but guess what???? He's Colombian! :o

Personally, i have no problem with Palermo as long as he doesnt take penalty-kicks.

[threervana]

Oh ~el Loco~Welcome Back~~:)

[west501]

Not a single River Plate player... Just shows how poor our team is....

In 1999, at least half the team could have been easily called, now the only player worth a call would be Falcao, but guess what???? He's Colombian! :o

Personally, i have no problem with Palermo as long as he doesnt take penalty-kicks.

true, how far we have fallen :(
I would call up Abelairas as a free kick specialist :rolleyes:

[Arg10]

Hahaha, what the hell is this?! A late April fools joke? This is SERIOUSLY ridiculous. Martin "I can't score a penalty to save my life" Palermo is back on the team?! He's 30-fucking-5.

Wow, are we really that desperate? On the bright side(if there even is one for this news), Diego is thinking about using 2 different teams for the next Qualifiers against Colombia and Ecuador.

[msi2]

btw, when we will appear the new kits for the WC next year? I cant stand anymore the ones we are using for almost two years now. (On a top of this, we had only poor results with them :p )

[Arg10]

btw, when we will appear the new kits for the WC next year? I cant stand anymore the ones we are using for almost two years now. (On a top of this, we had only poor results with them :p )

If I'm not mistaken sometime between October/December, though it varies.

For the 2006 World Cup, we got the new kits in December 2005(I believe) because I remember the match against England in November 2005 we were still wearing the older kits. And these ones came out in either October or November 2007. So its usually between October and December. I never did like these ones, especially the away(and the numbering font). I LOVE the 2006 World Cup kit.

[west501]

Huracan have another youngster, Pastore, who may also merit a callup
they are in some kind of form
speaking of form, D'Alessandro and Inter won the Gaucho undefeated and with an emphatic and historic 8-1 win
Diego would be crazy to overlook el cabezón, but I expect he probably will

[msi2]

Angel Cappa DT de la seleccion por favor! :o

[threervana]

Angel Cappa DT de la seleccion por favor! :o

Who is Angel Cappa:confused:

[msi2]

Who is Angel Cappa:confused:


He's the DT of Huracan. Huracan is by the team who plays the best futbol in the league.

[threervana]

He's the DT of Huracan. Huracan is by the team who plays the best futbol in the league.

Thanks for the info.

But they are not in the first place, right?:D

I think you mean the most bonito futbol~~;)

[west501]

el Pipita is becoming a legend of Madrid
18 goals, a huge season, a polyfunctional player with an impressive presence in and out of the area
Diegooo

[Arg10]

el Pipita is becoming a legend of Madrid
18 goals, a huge season, a polyfunctional player with an impressive presence in and out of the area
Diegooo

His second goal against Getafe... I'm impressed. Definatly needs to be called.

[robin9]

He's also first in assissts in RM, don't know how many exactly though. Kinda puzzling how he's not gotten a single call, I read somewhere recently it's some kind of retribution because he declined participating in an under-20 tournament. I'm not sure how much truth is in it though.

[Arg10]

He's also first in assissts in RM, don't know how many exactly though. Kinda puzzling how he's not gotten a single call, I read somewhere recently it's some kind of retribution because he declined participating in an under-20 tournament. I'm not sure how much truth is in it though.

Yeah, thats usually the main reason why Higuain has not gotten called up yet. It seems he rejected a call-up to the Olympics and U20 tournament in 2007.

Also, wouldn't hurt to give Zarate a shot along with D'Alessandro.

Messi, Tevez, Aguero, Zarate, Higuain, Lopez and Milito as an attacking strike force:eek:

Oh and please bring back Cambiasso, Gago is not doing very good right now at all.

[robin9]

Yea, Gago has had a dip in form for RM as well for a number of weeks now. His constant running and stamina are his biggest "+" but he seems pretty exhausted lately. But I don't blame the guy, he's played 3000+ minutes so far this season.

[msi2]

Yea, Gago has had a dip in form for RM as well for a number of weeks now. His constant running and stamina are his biggest "+" but he seems pretty exhausted lately. But I don't blame the guy, he's played 3000+ minutes so far this season.

Without a complete preseason... smells injury.

I havent read it yet, but there's an article here about Aguero and his season:

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=goal_spanish_inquisition_time&prov=goal&type=lgns

I think Diego needs to really reevualuate what really brings Aguero to the team (to me, barely nothing) if he wants to call him, he cant be a starter imo.

[west501]

I've been saying it for while, Aguero is a straight sub for Messi
and from what I'm hearing, D'Alessandro should replace Roman :eek:

[Arg10]

I've been saying it for while, Aguero is a straight sub for Messi
and from what I'm hearing, D'Alessandro should replace Roman :eek:

Woah! Wait, wait, wait. By D'Alessandro SHOULD replace Roman, you mean Diego will actually CALL D'Alessandro?! PLEASE Diego, do it! 4 midfielders, 2 of them DM's, 1 who'll track back more than attack(Gutierrez) and one that has been extremely inconsistent all season long(Maxi).

Anyone hear the rumors of Higuain not getting along with Gago and Heinze at Madrid? Supposedly Diego recently went to Spain and had dinner with Gago and Heinze, but no Higuain. It seems that might be a reason why Higuain hasn't gotten called up yet, but who knows.

[threervana]

Anyone hear the rumors of Higuain not getting along with Gago and Heinze at Madrid? Supposedly Diego recently went to Spain and had dinner with Gago and Heinze, but no Higuain. It seems that might be a reason why Higuain hasn't gotten called up yet, but who knows.

Stupid rumor man~~

Saviola didn't join the dinner neither...:D

[msi2]

Stupid rumor man~~

Saviola didn't join the dinner neither...:D

lol, one has to wonder why though.... oh wait... :D:D:D

[Arg10]

v/a5tUlsAct7k

Pablito:(

[west501]

my nostalgia 2010 lineup would have Aimar in the midfield and Saviola in the attack

Saviola-Cavenaghi-Messi
Aimar
D'Alessandro-Cambiasso-Mascherano(c)
Milito-Micho-Zabaleta
JP 'Mick Jagger' Carrizo

with a tactical trainer *cough* Bielsa *cough* we could easily make an offensive super team like this work

[Arg10]

my nostalgia 2010 lineup would have Aimar in the midfield and Saviola in the attack

Saviola-Cavenaghi-Messi
Aimar
D'Alessandro-Cambiasso-Mascherano(c)
Milito-Micho-Zabaleta
JP 'Mick Jagger' Carrizo

with a tactical trainer *cough* Bielsa *cough* we could easily make an offensive super team like this work

D'Alessandro, Aimar and Messi all together with Saviola and Cavenaghi up front... wow.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but does anyone else ever think/get the feeling that if Aimar would of started in 2006(instead of Riquelme or instead of Lucho), we would be heading into 2010 as the champions? I never understood why we never played Aimar and Riquelme together. If you can play Lucho/Riquelme, you can play Aimar/Riquelme.

[west501]

D'Alessandro, Aimar and Messi all together with Saviola and Cavenaghi up front... wow.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but does anyone else ever think/get the feeling that if Aimar would of started in 2006(instead of Riquelme or instead of Lucho), we would be heading into 2010 as the champions? I never understood why we never played Aimar and Riquelme together. If you can play Lucho/Riquelme, you can play Aimar/Riquelme.


Pekerman, to his credit, was a very role oriented trainer

Striker-Targetman
Enganche
CentralMid-Masche-VersatileMid
LeftBack-Centrehalf-Centrehalf-UnforgiveableomissionofZanetti :mad:
UnforgiveableKeeper :eek::eek::eek:

:o:mad:

but you see, Aimar was not versatile enough to fit into the VersatileMid role that Maxi and Lucho were more suited for
but Pekerman was also a balance trainer and even though Maxi was not as suited as Lucho, he was right to include him

[msi2]

D'Alessandro, Aimar and Messi all together with Saviola and Cavenaghi up front... wow.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but does anyone else ever think/get the feeling that if Aimar would of started in 2006(instead of Riquelme or instead of Lucho), we would be heading into 2010 as the champions? I never understood why we never played Aimar and Riquelme together. If you can play Lucho/Riquelme, you can play Aimar/Riquelme.


Those formations are too offensive, we would get killed on counter-attacks.

[Arg10]

Pekerman, to his credit, was a very role oriented trainer

Striker-Targetman
Enganche
CentralMid-Masche-VersatileMid
LeftBack-Centrehalf-Centrehalf-UnforgiveableomissionofZanetti :mad:
UnforgiveableKeeper :eek::eek::eek:

:o:mad:

but you see, Aimar was not versatile enough to fit into the VersatileMid role that Maxi and Lucho were more suited for
but Pekerman was also a balance trainer and even though Maxi was not as suited as Lucho, he was right to include him

Yeah but I found Pato did well in 2006(even though he later went on to become a horrible goalkeeper).

Those formations are too offensive, we would get killed on counter-attacks.

Not too different from how it's been recently:o:(

Surprised there hasn't been any talk about it here but our U17 team has made the finals of the sudamericana after beating Uruguay 2-0. Our goalkeeper has looked good throughout the entire tournament. *knocks on wood*

Back to the present, this summer should be an interesting one. I'm looking forward to see where Tevez goes and it seems like Diego Milito could be on the move as well. Saviola and Crespo have got to move, they're commiting career suicide(even more-so for Saviola). I wouldn't mind seeing Cavenaghi move to another club(a small club in a top 3 league where he would get minutes). I can really see Tevez going to Inter. He's not staying with United, if he goes to Madrid he'll be a bench warmer, Barcelona is a no-no for him, Chelsea and Liverpool=career suicide. With Adriano officially gone from Inter, I doubt it would be a bad move for him to go there. Either that or go back to Boca, Carlos! Get that killer instinct back! And Saviola, back to River... it's the only place he'll get regular minutes.:o Same for Crespo. Crespo and Saviola up front for River!

[threervana]

my nostalgia 2010 lineup would have Aimar in the midfield and Saviola in the attack

Saviola-Cavenaghi-Messi
Aimar
D'Alessandro-Cambiasso-Mascherano(c)
Milito-Micho-Zabaleta
JP 'Mick Jagger' Carrizo

with a tactical trainer *cough* Bielsa *cough* we could easily make an offensive super team like this work

I smell the river:rolleyes:

Bielsa def won't play D'alessadro as the left midfield and he may prefer Tevez over Cavenaghi. He will play his typical 3313 like this:

D'alessandro-Tevez(2004 Olym)-Messi

Aimar

Maxi-Mascherano-Lucho

Milito-Samuel-Micho

Carrizo

Oh~~I'm missing this style~~:o

[west501]

I smell the river:rolleyes:


I don't know what you're talking about :rolleyes:
though you must admit that the glorious generation of River players from the early parts of this decade promised a lot more than they ended up giving

[Arg10]

I don't know what you're talking about :rolleyes:
though you must admit that the glorious generation of River players from the early parts of this decade promised a lot more than they ended up giving

Saviola, D'Alessandro, Cambiasso, Demichelis, Lux, Cavenaghi, Lucho, Mascherano, Higuain, Carrizo

Saviola it was his own fault. The idiot left Barcelona to go to MADRID, when Madrid had/has Raul, Ruud and recently got Higuain. There was no way he was going to get playing time ahead of Raul and Ruud.

D'Alessandro is what I call a "whore". He's been to how many teams in how many years? I'm not disputing his talent, but he's hard headed. Again, his own fault.

Cambiasso has been a gem, more for Inter than for Argentina. He'll always be remembered as the guy who scored a goal that's in the top 3 in the history of the World Cup against Serbia and Montenegro. Demichelis has been good, so no complaining from me.

Lux, I'd like to know what happened. He was pretty good from what I saw from him, but why did he get kicked off the team following the Confederations Cup(well, that's what I heard). Can anyone fill me in?

Cavenaghi is 25. He's near the peak of his career(if not at it). He nearly killed his career by going to Russia, but now that he's in France, he has to get out. Lucho, it's well covered territory with him. Mascherano, no problem there. Higuain, blossoming very well *knock on wood* at Madrid. Carrizo, get playing time, damnit.

But yes, looking back you could/would of expected more from this River generation.

Quick question. I've always been wondering this about Messi. Do Argentina fans/people think of him as "less Argentine" than say Riquelme or Mascherano or anyone because he left Argentina so early? He has never played in Argentina, did most of his growing up in Spain. It's something that I've been wondering for a while now. I hope you guys understood my question. Kind of hard to explain.

[west501]

Quick question. I've always been wondering this about Messi. Do Argentina fans/people think of him as "less Argentine" than say Riquelme or Mascherano or anyone because he left Argentina so early? He has never played in Argentina, did most of his growing up in Spain. It's something that I've been wondering for a while now. I hope you guys understood my question. Kind of hard to explain.

It's also hard to answer. I certainly don't think of him as less Argentine. I can tell you from experience that an Argentine living, or even growing up abroad after age 13, is not much less Argentine. There's something about the culture that sticks, be it the accent, the way of approaching life, the South American energy, the football, etc. Particularly in Barcelona, a brilliant cosmopolitan city culturally and climatically similar to Buenos Aires where (after 2001) there is a community of 30,000+ Argentines. It is possible to socialize almost exclusively with Argentines and keep the culture. This was certainly my experience in Barcelona (for better or worse).
It's true Messi was virtually unknown in Argentina before the u20 2005 in Holland. But from then on he became Argentina's favourite son. I remember I was on a plane to Patagonia during his national team debut and when I got out everyone was talking about how he got red carded in the first minute! It's true he isn't associated with a club in Argentina and though he supports Newells, he probably would have gone to River if Aguilar didn't exist. :mad:
But in sum, I don't think Messi is less Argentine. But there probably are people who would say that, particularly if he accepted the Spanish callup.

[msi2]

Saviola, D'Alessandro, Cambiasso, Demichelis, Lux, Cavenaghi, Lucho, Mascherano, Higuain, Carrizo

Saviola it was his own fault. The idiot left Barcelona to go to MADRID, when Madrid had/has Raul, Ruud and recently got Higuain. There was no way he was going to get playing time ahead of Raul and Ruud.

D'Alessandro is what I call a "whore". He's been to how many teams in how many years? I'm not disputing his talent, but he's hard headed. Again, his own fault.

Cambiasso has been a gem, more for Inter than for Argentina. He'll always be remembered as the guy who scored a goal that's in the top 3 in the history of the World Cup against Serbia and Montenegro. Demichelis has been good, so no complaining from me.

Lux, I'd like to know what happened. He was pretty good from what I saw from him, but why did he get kicked off the team following the Confederations Cup(well, that's what I heard). Can anyone fill me in?

Cavenaghi is 25. He's near the peak of his career(if not at it). He nearly killed his career by going to Russia, but now that he's in France, he has to get out. Lucho, it's well covered territory with him. Mascherano, no problem there. Higuain, blossoming very well *knock on wood* at Madrid. Carrizo, get playing time, damnit.

But yes, looking back you could/would of expected more from this River generation.

Quick question. I've always been wondering this about Messi. Do Argentina fans/people think of him as "less Argentine" than say Riquelme or Mascherano or anyone because he left Argentina so early? He has never played in Argentina, did most of his growing up in Spain. It's something that I've been wondering for a while now. I hope you guys understood my question. Kind of hard to explain.

Those constant talent waste are dangerous for argentinian futbol in general. Let's hope the future kids wont do the same mistakes.

EDIT:

Btw why the last question about Messi?

[Arg10]

Btw why the last question about Messi?

It's just been in my mind a bit. Not sure why, I just always had the feeling that some people think of Messi as less Argentinian because he did most of his growing up in Spain and never played for an Argentine club. Mostly when compared to Tevez, I guess. Tevez came from a shady neighborhood and found it hard growing up but played for the mighty Boca and won with them. Compared to Messi who played on the streets, was shipped to Barcelona and grew up there. It might sound stupid, just been in my head lately.

[msi2]

It's just been in my mind a bit. Not sure why, I just always had the feeling that some people think of Messi as less Argentinian because he did most of his growing up in Spain and never played for an Argentine club. Mostly when compared to Tevez, I guess. Tevez came from a shady neighborhood and found it hard growing up but played for the mighty Boca and won with them. Compared to Messi who played on the streets, was shipped to Barcelona and grew up there. It might sound stupid, just been in my head lately.

No because actually i had the same thoughts weeks ago. :p

[DSGB]

It's just been in my mind a bit. Not sure why, I just always had the feeling that some people think of Messi as less Argentinian because he did most of his growing up in Spain and never played for an Argentine club. Mostly when compared to Tevez, I guess. Tevez came from a shady neighborhood and found it hard growing up but played for the mighty Boca and won with them. Compared to Messi who played on the streets, was shipped to Barcelona and grew up there. It might sound stupid, just been in my head lately.

I think the fact that he chose Argentina instead of perhaps aiming to play for Spain showed that he had a lot of pride in his home country. It's the people like Amauri or Trezeguet that I can understand people having a problem with.

[threervana]

I think the fact that he chose Argentina instead of perhaps aiming to play for Spain showed that he had a lot of pride in his home country. It's the people like Amauri or Trezeguet that I can understand people having a problem with.

I think his admiration for his idol (Pablo Aimar) may have some effect on his decision.:rolleyes:

[Arg10]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=644622&sec=worldcup2010&cc=5901

Higuain will NOT get called up and there will be a "surprise" from midfield to attack. Higuain not called up makes no sense. The surprise better be Riquelme and/or Aimar. And Carrizo might be dropped.

[msi2]

Or maybe D'Alessandro.

[west501]

why does he continue to insist on Milito?
nothing against el Principe, but he's sort of the new Julio Cruz at this point
nothing against el Jardinero either, but it's Pipita time for more than a year now
I would put a starting and starring Pipita in over a benched Tévez and an Agüero who already scored his biggest goal (http://www3.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Kun+Aguero+Showing+Off+Son+Before+Game+xM1uR59Pdyo l.jpg) :rolleyes:

[msi2]

Another thing has to be said about Aguero, he's not a poacher. How many mediocre games with the NT does he have to pull out for our DT to finally notice it?

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=644622&sec=worldcup2010&cc=5901

Higuain will NOT get called up and there will be a "surprise" from midfield to attack. Higuain not called up makes no sense. The surprise better be Riquelme and/or Aimar. And Carrizo might be dropped.


Yeah, he named the three usual suspects and then went on with Licha, Milito and Lavezzi.
I'm pretty sure i would name some local league players before him. I dont know what does he have against him but for sure he can say almost goodbye for South Africa 2010 at this point... unless there's a string of injuries.

[Arg10]

Or maybe D'Alessandro.

:)

why does he continue to insist on Milito?
nothing against el Principe, but he's sort of the new Julio Cruz at this point
nothing against el Jardinero either, but it's Pipita time for more than a year now
I would put a starting and starring Pipita in over a benched Tévez and an Agüero who already scored his biggest goal (http://www3.pictures.fp.zimbio.com/Kun+Aguero+Showing+Off+Son+Before+Game+xM1uR59Pdyo l.jpg) :rolleyes:

It's true Milito doesn't seem to pull off the same type of performances with Argentina as he does with Genoa, but he's on fire now. What I don't understand is that he calls him up and doesn't play him. He insists on using an Aguero that has never played a good game for Argentina in his life and a Tevez who would be better as a sub than as a starter at this point. But he'll never drop Aguero(unless Kun himself messes up with Diego's daughter, then he can kiss his National Team career goodbye) and Tevez reminds him too much of himself.

Another thing has to be said about Aguero, he's not a poacher. How many mediocre games with the NT does he have to pull out for our DT to finally notice it?

Yeah, he named the three usual suspects and then went on with Licha, Milito and Lavezzi.
I'm pretty sure i would name some local league players before him. I dont know what does he have against him but for sure he can say almost goodbye for South Africa 2010 at this point... unless there's a string of injuries.

I would not blame Higuain one bit if he insisted on playing for France instead of us. What's going to change within the next year for Higuain? He's already scoring left and right for Madrid, but when someone is on Diego's bad side, forget about it. Guest was right when Diego was first assigned, "it's the players he hates I'm more worried about".
http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1316299&postcount=833

[msi2]

If he choose to play for France, he will regret this decision for the rest of his life. He better not do that mistake. Especially with Domenech... mwaahahaha, just thinking about it is putting me in tears. :D

[west501]

Higuaín will not go to France because he is playing the kind of football that will inevitably lead to a callup
honestly, to take Gago and Heinze from Madrid over el Pipita is beyond words :eek:
I just watched the game and Gago was a disaster
I have to say that two years into his European dream, that he has not grown into what he promised..the pressure at Madrid has been too much
this is not a player for consideration for the national team, imo
if he matures next season he would make my bench as a replacement for an injured or suspended Masche
Higuaín was the only inspired player on the pitch, sweating for the shirt, relentlessly trying sometimes singlehandedly to turn his team around
el Pipita has the heart of Tévez, the speed and two-footed skill of Forlán, and the versatility to play from the midfield
I'm almost starting to call him Valdanito :eek:
it's true we are pretty well covered up front, but what do you guys think of him replacing Maxi?

Messi(10)-Agüero
D'Alessandro-Pipita
Cambiasso-Mascherano(c)
Monzón-Micho-Burdisso-Zanetti(36)
JP 'solo juego con la selección' Carrizo

my only concern with that lineup is the lack of a referente because D'Alessandro, no matter how old he is, will always be an immature little bastard :o
but in all seriousness I think we suffered from inexperience against Bolivia
young players like most of those are, tend to think themselves invincible at times
I think we should bring back a second central midfielder that works, like Cambiasso or Lucho or even Verón over Gago, who reaches to high imo and tries to play outside of his ability

[threervana]

Surprise???Aimar？？Riquelme???

I don't really think so...Maybe D'ale or someone from local league~~

[msi2]

You're talking about what game guest?

[west501]

Valencia 3 - Real Madrid 0
it was another appearance by Gagus Horribilis :o
I'm not blaming him for what is obviously a team problem that Capello and Schuster and Juande did not fix, but as long as we have Diego it will not be much different for Argentina

[msi2]

Valencia 3 - Real Madrid 0
it was another appearance by Gagus Horribilis :o
I'm not blaming him for what is obviously a team problem that Capello and Schuster and Juande did not fix, but as long as we have Diego it will not be much different for Argentina

Ok i havent seen that game.
But as far as the NT is concerned, we dont have that many DM imo. Mascherano, Cambiasso, Gago and...? The rest is unproven at international level.

EDIT:

Forgot about Veron obviously.

[west501]

I'm conflicted right now between finding the right players for the job or finding the right coach to show them the way
we're really in hell right now when you think about it in these terms

[msi2]

Bring Angel Cappa on after 2010...:D

EDIT:

But seriously, i'm not even sure who i would like to see as a DT next.

[msi2]

Esteban Fuertes.....
Cada dia mas ridicula la seleccion argentina.

EDIT:

There is no place for Higuain, but for Fuertes, there is??? :o :o

[Arg10]

There is no place for Higuain, but for Fuertes, there is??? :o :o

:eek::(

He's fairly tall, so I imagine Diego will use him as the main striker. I'm with you, I cannot understand how Fuertes is getting a call and not Higuain. I know it's only domestic players, but COME ON! I was on another forum and I read a post that made me think... Would you guys really be surprised if Diego ends up calling Ortega? Surely if Palermo and Fuertes get a call-up, Ortega cannot be that far away:(

Quick question, when is the list for the Qualifiers released? Should be soon, no?

[west501]

cada día me río más :o

as Diego calls up more and more old farts that played when he was still active I think that legitimate calls for the legendary number 4 Eber Ludueña will only increase

v/b_gv9j7nOkU

don't know how many non-Argentines are familiar with the sensational Ludueña, but here is a mini-bio

v/PwPPnWgMZR4

it will be difficult if you don't speak/understand Spanish, but while the words/stories are pure gold, there's enough highlights to get you through the clip

porompompom y para Eber la selección
http://www.rugbyfun.com.ar/content/news/files/fargo-Eber3-490.jpg

[Arg10]

From the humor to National team news, Christian Gimenez seems to be the "surprise" that Diego was talking about.

I'll be honest, I know jack shit about him as I don't follow the Mexican league.

[threervana]

It's truly a surprise to me...

[Arg10]

Just read some news on our friendly against Panama tomorrow. Sand and Bergessio will start up front with Montenegro as the playmaker behind them. It'll give a chance to some of these guys to show what their made of and give us more options. Also, Salvio(probably our best player at the South American U20 tournament back in January) will start the match. Should be interesting.

[west501]

how about that Javier Pastore as a surprise in the midfield?
he and el Globo are the toast of the local tournament right now..and Diego puts in Sand :o

[msi2]

About Pastore, there are words he's going to call him directly for the qualifiers...

EDIT:

And anyway, would Diego be able to use him like Cappa is doing at huracan? Something tells me no... :o

[west501]

About Pastore, there are words he's going to call him directly for the qualifiers...

EDIT:

And anyway, would Diego be able to use him like Cappa is doing at huracan? Something tells me no... :o

I've heard these rumors too, but there is nothing that makes me believe them
I'm thinking the surprise will be a player for the starting 11 and to answer your question, I think Diego would use him on the bench...

I am becoming increasingly nervous as we head into what could be the winter of our sorrows

[msi2]

...and anyway, Huracan at their level, they are a much better balanced team. I mean they have true sidebacks (Arano and Araujo) bringing width to the team, box to box midfielders, Toranzo and Cesar Gonzalez can create space for Pastore, De Federico who's really promising and a 9 poacher (even though he's awful imo). This is basically Pekerman's formation, expect they have two true sidebacks instead of one (Sorin, Burdisso being a supposedly polyvalent defender who can play both as a CB and RB but imo he's not good enough as a CB and he does a CB job as a RB (which is the worst imo)).
But most importantly, these players are always in movement, they are not static, waiting for the ball.

[west501]

I don't know about De Federico with the 9..he's tiny!
De Federico on the other hand, could develop into something interesting after 2010
he reminds me a bit of Sosa, only more apt at playing in the middle
I would also consider Sosita as a natural side mid to give width
I had a Bilardo-ish dream the other day, playing Micho in front of a line of 4 defenders

Messi-Aguero
D'Alessandro-Higuain
Masche
Micho
Clemente-Milito-Colocha-Zanetti
Carrizo

[msi2]

No Aguero please... :/

[Arg10]

So the list is out and it isn't pretty.

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo CARRIZO (Lazio, Italia)
Mariano ANDÚJAR (Estudiantes LP)
Federico VILAR (Atlante, México)

Defenders:
Martín DEMICHELIS (Bayern Munich, Alemania)
Emiliano PAPA (Vélez Sársfield)
Gabriel HEINZE (Real Madrid, España)
Marcos ANGELERI (Estudiantes LP)
Javier ZANETTI (Internazionale, Italia)
Daniel DÍAZ (Getafe, España)
Nicolás BURDISSO (Internazionale, Italia)
Nicolás OTAMENDI (Vélez Sársfield)
Juan FORLÍN (Boca Juniors)

Midfielders:
Javier MASCHERANO (Liverpool, Inglaterra)
Fernando GAGO (Real Madrid, España)
Juan SEBASTIÁN VERÓN (Estudiantes LP)
Maximiliano RODRÍGUEZ (Atlético de Madrid, España)
Jonás GUTIÉRREZ (Newcastle, Inglaterra)
Sebastián BATTAGLIA (Boca Juniors)
Cristian GIMÉNEZ (Pachuca, México)
Daniel MONTENEGRO (Independiente)

Forwards:
Lionel MESSI (Barcelona, España)
Carlos TEVEZ (Manchester United, Inglaterra)
Sergio AGÜERO (Atlético de Madrid, España)
Lisandro LÓPEZ (Porto, Portugal)
Diego MILITO (Genoa, Italia)
Gonzalo BERGESSIO (San Lorenzo)

No Higuain, no CAMBIASSO(WTF, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?!:mad:) and no D'Alessandro. Yes to HEINZE?! Yes to PAPA? Yes to OTAMENDI?(Did Maradona even watch the Panama game? He was horrible). Really not liking this list, at all.

[msi2]

And the return of Cata Diaz and Burdisso instead of Samuel....... :o
Just missing Coloccini and i would die of a heart attack. :D

Good lord i just hope we at least win against Colombia. I seriously expect nothing against Ecuador in high altitude again and against a team who's much stronger than Bolivia...

[threervana]

How Burdisso get called but Samuel doesn't???!!!!!!!

Besides, I can't find any reason to bring Nicolás OTAMENDI (Vélez Sársfield) and
Juan FORLÍN (Boca Juniors) to join Diego's training...

[msi2]

And if you look at the midfield, there isnt a lot of players that can create things in the middle, aside Veron and Montenegro....

[west501]

So the list is out and it isn't pretty.

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo CARRIZO (Lazio, Italia)
Mariano ANDÚJAR (Estudiantes LP)
Federico VILAR (Atlante, México)

Defenders:
Martín DEMICHELIS (Bayern Munich, Alemania)
Emiliano PAPA (Vélez Sársfield)
Gabriel HEINZE (Real Madrid, España)
Marcos ANGELERI (Estudiantes LP)
Javier ZANETTI (Internazionale, Italia)
Daniel DÍAZ (Getafe, España)
Nicolás BURDISSO (Internazionale, Italia)
Nicolás OTAMENDI (Vélez Sársfield)
Juan FORLÍN (Boca Juniors)

Midfielders:
Javier MASCHERANO (Liverpool, Inglaterra)
Fernando GAGO (Real Madrid, España)
Juan SEBASTIÁN VERÓN (Estudiantes LP)
Maximiliano RODRÍGUEZ (Atlético de Madrid, España)
Jonás GUTIÉRREZ (Newcastle, Inglaterra)
Sebastián BATTAGLIA (Boca Juniors)
Cristian GIMÉNEZ (Pachuca, México)
Daniel MONTENEGRO (Independiente)

Forwards:
Lionel MESSI (Barcelona, España)
Carlos TEVEZ (Manchester United, Inglaterra)
Sergio AGÜERO (Atlético de Madrid, España)
Lisandro LÓPEZ (Porto, Portugal)
Diego MILITO (Genoa, Italia)
Gonzalo BERGESSIO (San Lorenzo)

No Higuain, no CAMBIASSO(WTF, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK?!:mad:) and no D'Alessandro. Yes to HEINZE?! Yes to PAPA? Yes to OTAMENDI?(Did Maradona even watch the Panama game? He was horrible). Really not liking this list, at all.

this all but guarantees we'll see Heinze and Papa in defence
I expect

JP 'las para desde el banco' Carrizo
Pupi-Micho-Gringo-Papa
Jefecito(c)-Pintita
Fiera-Jonas
Pulga-Kun

of this list I would like
JP 'el guapo' Carrizo
Pupi-Nico-Micho-Gringo
Fiera-Jefecito(c)-Brujita
Pulga-Licha-Kun

if I made the list I would like
JP 'el señor de los guantesitos' Carrizo
Pupi-Micho-Muro-Monzón
Jefecito(c)-Cuchu
Pipita-Cabezón
Pulga-Torito


but to be honest I don't care who plays as long as they play together and win both matches

[threervana]

Who is Muro???

Is Monzon playing well at Betis??

[msi2]

Who is Muro???

Is Monzon playing well at Betis??


I think he's talking about Samuel (for Muro).
As for Monzon, he isnt even playing at Betis.

[west501]

I think about free kick specialists with players like Monzón or Garay
both with incredibly hard shots that can be dangerous from range

[deviant]

Well I want Gago to play fellas I need him to improve..at your expense ;)

[threervana]

I think about free kick specialists with players like Monzón or Garay
both with incredibly hard shots that can be dangerous from range

both of these free kick specialists r not doing well in their clubs..

Who can we count on when Veron is not on field...

Aguero?? He used to have some potential, but now?

Messi and Maxi are surely not good enough..

[west501]

both of these free kick specialists r not doing well in their clubs..


maybe true, but sometimes you just need role players
right now I take Monzón over Heinze, for example
sometimes it's the other way around, where a player gets noticed on the national team when he does a good job, then the club wises up or he gets the big deal to a rich club

[Arg10]

Question, any news on who will be the starting goalkeeper against Colombia? Is it still going to be Carrizo or is Diego going to give Andujar/Vilar a chance? I ask because I've been hearing/reading some things in the last few weeks that said Carrizo might be dropped.

As for the free kicks, we're done. Veron will barely get any minutes(if any) and I doubt Montenegro will start against Colombia. Which leaves us with Maxi:eek::o:(

[threervana]

Andujar might start against Colombia~

[west501]

Juampa started against Reggina and showed that despite the tremendous battle of egos with the coach, his formidable natural ability and the class of a professional remain as he played amazingly well and looked like he hadn't missed a match
I suppose he won the battle with the coach, who probably lost a few places in the standings by benching him for the second half of the season and was probably forced by management to play him again so their multi million euro investment and star keeper wouldn't leave

[threervana]

Viva La Messi~~

Finally, there is one Argentinean who will be the Footballer of the year~~

[msi2]

He looks very happy at Barcelona...

[west501]

He looks very happy at Barcelona...

v/oe9o0FmCWR4

ajajaja for anyone who was doubting Messi's qualifications as más Argentino que el mate, this ~36 seconds in is a good example of hyper-Argentinity when drunk at least, stolen from the Barça thread ;)
they didn't realise how drunk he was until they passed him the mic, check out Piqué and co's reactions in the background
absolutely priceless!

[jnice17]

Alves and Eidur tried to take care of him haha

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dPq9EUPHRfY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dPq9EUPHRfY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[west501]

He looks very happy at Barcelona...

ajaja momentos inéditos
I only hope that la Pulguita remembers at least parts of that ceremony
it would be such a pity not to have memory of that besides that from these hilarious videos and what will likely be a lifetime of taunts from his teammates :p
but as it is when drunk, he speaks from the heart and it honestly brings a tear of joy to my eye to see him actualise his potential this year
now he must pull up the national team as well!

[Arg10]

ajaja momentos inéditos
I only hope that la Pulguita remembers at least parts of that ceremony
it would be such a pity not to have memory of that besides that from these hilarious videos and what will likely be a lifetime of taunts from his teammates :p
but as it is when drunk, he speaks from the heart and it honestly brings a tear of joy to my eye to see him actualise his potential this year
now he must pull up the national team as well!

Yeah, it's great to see Messi just let loose. A fantastic season to be finished off with the World Player of the Year award.

In Qualifiers news, Angeleri is out for the rest of year. Which means him moving to Europe does not look too good. It sucks too, we could of used him in the Qualifiers.

[threervana]

Oh ~Poor Angeleri～～

It's not easy to find a decent backup RB ...

[deviant]

jajajajaja Messi si parece una pulgita verdad? que risa se me hace que se tomo no mas una cerveza y se puso hasta su madre!

[west501]

jajajajaja Messi si parece una pulgita verdad? que risa se me hace que se tomo no mas una cerveza y se puso hasta su madre!

jajaja estaba en pedo el chaparrito..ya me imagino la cruda que le pegó al otro día :o

[west501]

about to be confirmed lineup
source (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/06/04/seleccion/01932852.html)

Andújar;
Cata Díaz:eek:, Demichelis y Heinze;
Gago, Mascherano, Jonás, Verón;
Messi, Agüero y Tevez

Diego is playing with fire against Colombia
3 points is what we need, we have to go match by match here

[jnice17]

When's the match?

[west501]

When's the match?

it would probably have been better if it had not even happened :p:mad:

[jnice17]

it would probably have been better if it had not even happened :p:mad:

lol I saw it. I'm sad that I watched the whole match. :(:o

[msi2]

So... hm yeah, just saw paso a paso highlights of this game... :o

We are in trouble guys.

[west501]

player review

Andujar was fine, except that one he should have sent to the corner
Micho was also fine and thank God that Mascherano es Argentino (I was saying it all match)

3 points aside, Cata Díaz :eek: is a disaster who should never wear the albiceleste..though now I think he's won the starting role :eek:
Colombia immediately pressured him and most of their best chances came on his side and often because of mistakes by him
desastre :eek:

Heinze and Gago had terrible seasons..maybe el Gringo for experience, but Pintita is looking pretty ugly right now :rolleyes:

Jonás and Carlitos are subs for their respective teams, and Newcastle were even relegated to the second division :eek:

Agüerito had a baby and probably isn't getting a lot of sleep, he's looked tired all season..

Messi and Verón, the two cracks of the team, cannot do it alone
la Brujita is 34 and even when he was 24 he'd tire by the 75th minute..now it's the 65th
and Messi, faced with a team that does not function in the midfield possession game is caught in a disappearing act and trying too hard when he sees the ball

for me this formation was Diego trying to forget about Bolivia and not address any tactical problems by putting the big names on the pitch
he seems to be trying to field squad players with Jonás and Cata Díaz, but they should honestly be the first to go
I'm not a superstitious person, but we all have to pray for a point in Quito, and that Battaglia doesn't play :(

we need major changes to this side because we look very beatable
at this rate Brazil will beat us at home
to fix this, I'm bringing back Cambiasso to pair with Mascherano, putting in D'Alessandro up front and playing a targetman

Juampa 'el Rey Leon' Carrizo
Zanetti-Burdisso-Micho-Heinze
Verón-Masche(c)-Cambiasso
Messi-Lisandro-D'Alessandro

[msi2]

D'Alessandro as a Left-Winger? :confused:

[west501]

that was nominally his position under Bielsa, you know the Kily González position on the left in front of Sorín
in practise of course, he would be as free to roam as Messi
also, are there any out there who think Riquelme is the answer?
we certainly suffered his last 'retirement' but I worry that if Diego can't fix it that the calls for a saviour will get louder

[akd]

I think the solution will come once Diego leaves his position as NT manager.

D'Alessandro? jaja dejate de joder...

[west501]

I think the solution will come once Diego leaves his position as NT manager.

D'Alessandro? jaja dejate de joder...

esque tengo la banda tatuada, viejo :p
formation for today

Andujar
Zanetti(c)-Demichelis-Otamendi-Heinze
Gago-Battaglia:eek::eek::eek:
Maxi-Jonas
Messi-Tevez

in other news, Dieguito continues showing signs of mental strain by saying only that he hopes it's a great match in a 25 second press conference :rolleyes::mad:
that makes the above formation unconfirmed :confused:

[msi2]

We are in trouble guys.

Quoted for the fuc***** truth!! :mad:

[akd]

esque tengo la banda tatuada, viejo :p
formation for today

Andujar
Zanetti(c)-Demichelis-Otamendi-Heinze
Gago-Battaglia:eek::eek::eek:
Maxi-Jonas
Messi-Tevez

in other news, Dieguito continues showing signs of mental strain by saying only that he hopes it's a great match in a 25 second press conference :rolleyes::mad:
that makes the above formation unconfirmed :confused:

Hmm...so whats next? I don't see any hope of a recovery, plus we have Brasil and Paraguay coming up...Anyone wanna bet money that Maradona sucks it up and calls Riquelme back to the NT?

[west501]

Hmm...so whats next? I don't see any hope of a recovery, plus we have Brasil and Paraguay coming up...Anyone wanna bet money that Maradona sucks it up and calls Riquelme back to the NT?

I was talking about this before the Colombia match, je
this match is very worrying, if we lose to Brazil and Paraguay we could possibly go into Uruguay needing the win just to make the playoff, a near impossible order :eek::eek::eek:
that's assuming we beat Peru at home..worst case scenario is that we could be eliminated at home against Peru*
given the importance of the next round and the lack of time to fix it afterwards, do we sack Dieguito now or risk not making the world cup
that is how I see it right now

*correct me if I'm wrong, but if we don't get points next round, Uruguay win their next three, and Ecuador win their next two (and lose at home to Uruguay) we are eliminated even if we draw Peru at home
in this situation if we beat Peru at home we go into Uruguay needing a win to overtake Ecuador
I need to go to sleep

[Arg10]

My head hurts. No midfield, attack can't score, manager who has no clue what he's doing, an FA that only cares about money and it goes on...

It's really sad when Heinze of all people is one of your best players... ATTACKING WISE! We were virtually playing with 3 DM's. Gago, Battaglia and Gutierrez because I did not see Guti create a single attack. Higuain, Zarate and Lopez SHOULD be used. Lopez was called but didn't make the bench?!:confused: Why does Diego insist on playing Messi and Tevez together, it just doesn't work. For what it's worth, here are the standings with four matches to go:

WC - Brazil 27 points (+19 goal difference).
WC - Chile 26 (+9)
WC - Paraguay 24 (+7)
WC - Argentina 22 (+4)
--------------------
Playoffs with 4th from CONCACAF - Ecuador 20 (-2)
--------------------
OUT - Uruguay 18 (+7)
OUT - Colombia 17 (-4)
OUT - Venezuela 17 (-7)
OUT - Bolivia 12 (-11)
OUT - Peru 7 (-22) -Peru are already eliminated. They can't reach the fifth spot even if they win all their remaining matches.

Next round (5-6 September)

Argentina-Brazil
Paraguay-Bolivia
Chile-Venezuela
Peru-Uruguay
Colombia-Ecuador

Scenarios:

-Brazil can clinch their berth in the next World Cup if they win in Buenos Aires and both Ecuador and Uruguay fail to win their matches.

-Chile can clinch their berth in the next World Cup if they beat Venezuela and both Ecuador and Uruguay fail to win their matches.

-Bolivia will be out of contention if they fail to win in Paraguay and Ecuador win in Colombia.

-Provided Argentina get all three points against Brazil and Uruguay, Colombia and Venezuela lose, the Albicelestes will only need two points from the last 9 to secure at least fifth place.

The double round will be completed with the following fixtures:

8 September, 2009:

Paraguay-Argentina
Uruguay-Colombia
Venezuela-Peru
Bolivia-Ecuador
Brazil-Chile

Credit to Mundo Albiceleste for the info.
---

Ecuador(in fifth) will have an interesting next round. Colombia first where Colombia really needs points(I can see Ecuador losing this) and Bolivia where I see ending in a tie. I'm confident we'll make it to the World Cup, but I'm not sure if it'll be through automatic qualification or through playoffs. 4 matches to go, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

[akd]

Well, Colombia is playing Ecuador at home right? I can see Colombia winning 1 to 0 or even a tie, as Colombia needs this game to have a chance to go to the World Cup. A win for them would position them at 21 points, 1 above Ecuador. *Knocking on wood, lets suppose Argentina loses against Brazil (which for me would give the final blow to Diego)*, and Ecuador and Colombia tie...then Ecuador would have 21 points, we would still have 22, and we would need to go out firing in Paraguay to get the three points and distance ourselves more from the rest of SA.

Sadly, I can't believe that with the players we have, we have to be doing these kinds of mathematics...incredible!

[west501]

Sadly, I can't believe that with the players we have, we have to be doing these kinds of mathematics...incredible!

it's not the players, it's the coach :eek:
again, the comment I made the other night is that I can't believe that we hired as a coach one of the worst nightmare's for coaches when he was a player
that sentence does not read
no puedo creer que pusimos al verdugo de cada DT que lo alineo durante su carrera como el DT de la seleccion, es insolito, estamos todos locos? yo no! bueno se puede discutir pero a ver si me sale en try no. 2
I can't believe we put a player who made every coach he had go crazy as our national team coach, what were we thinking?
Diego is more of a fan/inspiration than a coach..we tried to back him up with the best tacticians in the country but he refused them, put his yes-men, and shut out Bilardo :eek:
I'll not search for the quote, but I remember saying that the only thing I liked about the appointment was that I considered Diego a figurehead with an able tactical parliament..thinking of it this way may be what they wanted
but Diego is not a figurehead, he is a Dictatorial D10S
it's sad because he played with such purpose and leadership too

[msi2]

This morning, i heard Juan Pablo Varsky talking about the NT after our victory against Colombia and he made some revelations about Maradona and his techical staff.... worse than i thought.

Basically:

-Maradona's staff is utterly incompetent (Lemme and Mancuso), they have no technical knowledge whatsoever and lack of preparation was evident. Just an example, before the game Venezuela, they didnt know the names of Venezuela players the day prior of the game....

-Maradona does not want to share or delegate to other people more competent (esp. in the area or preparation, tactical formation...) because he sees that as losing power and does not want that. He wants people to see him as the main factor behind an possible victory in WC in South Africa as he was regarded as the main contributor to the WC's vcitory in 1986 as a player.

-About Messi, it's all about pass to him and do some miracle, save us. Varsky noted rightfully that not only this wont work, it will utterly fail.

-Comparing also Bilardo's system in 1986 who was build around Maradona as a player (leaving Borghi on the bench and searching for him the best complementay players instead of adding the most talented players on the pitch), why not doing that with Messi? They were hoping that Crespo does well in Genoa or finally Higuain does get a call, not call for personal reasons. They quickly talked about Milito and that wasnt pretty for him (timidez tremenda). Frankly after having seen him playing a little und er the NT shirt, this is also the impression i got from him (i said he was as threatening as a kitten) and i'm not sure if it would be worth trying again with him.

-They also noted that Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Veron, Mascherano and Gago together, this wont, some of them will have to eat bench.

-Also, they talked about Heinze, how he sucks! They listed literally all his mistakes under the NT and how he was the only player they know who exposes so much his weaknesses contrary to others who tries to hide them.
That part made me laugh seriously.. because it is so fuc**** true.


“Maradona cree que si delega funciones, esta perdiendo poder, al contrario, sumaria grandeza”

“Cada vez que (Messi) agarra la pelota lo miran como diciendo: salvanos; en el Barcelona lo invitan a jugar y aca lo invitan a resolver”

“Heinze es el unico jugador (…) que en lugar de esconder sus limitaciones, las expone”

On a general matter, we can see the state of argentinian futbol (local league, NT and youth NT) is a complete disaster.
Did you see the recent showing of the sub-21 at Toulon? They are playing as shit (barely any different than Maradona's crap selection). Pelotazos over pelotazos, over pelotazos over pelotazos.... yawnn! While they reach the semi-finals, you can see it was mainly because of Buonanotte (sometimes, Gomez and Banega) and the Lanus' goalkeeper Marchesin (who made massive saves during the whole tournament). The defense was easily thrown off, the midfield had barely any control of the ball and on the of top of that we had one of a hell of pecho frio on the attack as a sole player (Franco Jara coming from Arsenal), you have to wonder why the hell he was brought along. I'm not even talking about the penalty kicks because it seems it's a new specialty to suck royally at these (cf. the last sub-17 also).

NEWS:

-A new friendly with local league players is scheduled on the 8th July. It will be against Nigeria this time.
-Saviola could head to Liverpool, great news IMO (at least for him, not necessarily for the NT with Diego at the helm...). He's 27y old, he still can give a lot.
-Buonanotte could head to Benfica? After his great performances in Toulon and the constant need of fresh cash for River.
-Mascherano to Barça? Liverpool needs cash to pay some debts and has to sell, though Benitez is and rightfully, totally against his sale.

[akd]

Guys...this is just my instinct and maybe I'm wrong but I'm willing to bet serious money that Riquelme gets a call back to the NT as does Crespo. A question now, why does Higuaín not get a call up to the NT? I mean, if they don't call him they might as well let him play for France.

[msi2]

Guys...this is just my instinct and maybe I'm wrong but I'm willing to bet serious money that Riquelme gets a call back to the NT as does Crespo. A question now, why does Higuaín not get a call up to the NT? I mean, if they don't call him they might as well let him play for France.

He hasnt been called for "personal reasons"... :rolleyes:

[west501]

I don't know if Crespo and Riquelme are the answers
I think the answer comes from the bench and I'm not sure what will happen for 2010, but if we don't get a systems coach after then it will be a disaster
don't get me wrong it's a huge challenge to manage such rich players, but I long for the days when we had very defined roles on the pitch and a wealth of players to choose from
now we are too dependent on random association, or a saviour that Messi is not and that Riquelme was not
ganas sobran pero falta DT

[perfectdark]

whoa its been a disaster since i last posted here
cant we get pekerman back or even bielsa :o
msi2 your post is shocking
cant believe they dont even bother studying the other team
I remember bielsa watching tapes of the team we were facing for weeks before the game. Pekerman was also a professional. Maradona is an idiot. get a real coach in there.

What is the obsession with Heinze all about :confused: and Jonas ??? he is very very average. where is cambiasso...the list is too big. we better start somewhere

[msi2]

whoa its been a disaster since i last posted here
cant we get pekerman back or even bielsa :o
msi2 your post is shocking
cant believe they dont even bother studying the other team
I remember bielsa watching tapes of the team we were facing for weeks before the game. Pekerman was also a professional. Maradona is an idiot. get a real coach in there.

What is the obsession with Heinze all about :confused: and Jonas ??? he is very very average. where is cambiasso...the list is too big. we better start somewhere


To me Heinze is still called because he gave for the shirt, at least that's the impression he's giving to the coaches (Basile and Diego).

[west501]

it's true, Heinze leaves it all on the pitch and deserves to be called in the absence of Milito, who should replace him when he is recovered
I was able to watch the Chile match today and think that if we qualify, they might finish first
Brazil have to face us away, Chile at home, Bolivia away, and Venezuela at home
I don't expect them to stay at the top
Chile and Paraguay, easily the best teams in the group, have an equally difficult schedule, meaning that if they can take about equal points from the next four, we may see Chile, Paraguay, Brasil, Ecuador, Argentina/Uruguay qualify for the world cup
it could be down to that last match for us :eek:

[akd]

I don't worry. If the players actually have "balls" (huevos) they will play to wing and qualify. If not, then we don't deserve to go.

[west501]

anyone here think we can pull a Brazil 2002 :confused::p

[msi2]

Where are the players who won the sub-20 WC in 2001? All flopped? Is D'Alessando the only one eligible from that generation? It seems like most of them disappeared or something, what a disappointment... I feel the kids are still "green" for the NT, they need experienced players to cover them imo.

[west501]

Where are the players who won the sub-20 WC in 2001? All flopped? Is D'Alessando the only one eligible from that generation? It seems like most of them disappeared or something, what a disappointment... I feel the kids are still "green" for the NT, they need experienced players to cover them imo.

1 GK Germán Lux 7 June 1982 River Plate
2 DF Nicolás Burdisso 12 April 1981 Boca Juniors
3 DF Julio Arca 31 January 1981 Sunderland
4 DF Mauro Cetto 14 April 1982 Rosario Central
5 MF Nicolás Medina 17 February 1982 Argentinos Juniors
6 DF Fabricio Coloccini 22 January 1982 San Lorenzo
7 FW Javier Saviola 11 December 1981 River Plate 8 MF Oscar Ahumada 31 August 1982 River Plate
9 FW Esteban Herrera 9 March 1981 Boca Juniors
10 MF Leandro Romagnoli 17 March 1981 San Lorenzo
11 MF Maxi Rodríguez 2 January 1981 Newell's Old Boys
12 DF Ariel Seltzer 3 January 1981 Argentinos Juniors
13 DF Diego Colotto 10 March 1981 Estudiantes
14 MF Leonardo Daniel Ponzio 29 January 1982 Newell's Old Boys
15 MF Andrés D'Alessandro 15 April 1981 River Plate
16 FW Mauro Rosales 24 February 1981 Newell's Old Boys
17 FW Alejandro Dominguez 10 June 1981 Quilmes
18 GK Wilfredo Caballero 28 September 1981 Boca Juniors
19 FW Sebastián Bueno 24 October 1981 Sarmiento de Junín

it was definitely a great crop, in bold are the players that played the greatest part for the senior squad
of all of them I'd say Saviola and D'Alessandro are the best, but have experienced problems with poor career moves and personality problems that border on disorders for the latter

[fcb_sandy05]

it was definitely a great crop, in bold are the players that played the greatest part for the senior squad
of all of them I'd say Saviola and D'Alessandro are the best, but have experienced problems with poor career moves and personality problems that border on disorders for the latter

Couple of questions guys:

What's the deal with Saviola? He seemed pretty content to just be on the madrid payroll and wasn't pushing for a move anywhere so he could get playing time. Meaning that he isn't too keen on staying in the Albiceleste fold.

Has Diego Milito featured in the WCQ at all? Seems like he could provide a different dimension which seems quite necessary upfront.

and Pastore? Does Maradona just not fancy him?

[west501]

Couple of questions guys:

What's the deal with Saviola? He seemed pretty content to just be on the madrid payroll and wasn't pushing for a move anywhere so he could get playing time. Meaning that he isn't too keen on staying in the Albiceleste fold.

Has Diego Milito featured in the WCQ at all? Seems like he could provide a different dimension which seems quite necessary upfront.

and Pastore? Does Maradona just not fancy him?

with Saviola I think we have an unfortunate situation where a world class player had the ambitions of rejoining and staying at major squads where he was never in the coaches respective plans
he may yet make a comeback if he makes a smart move to a major club *River* and returns to stardom locally, sort of like D'Alessandro at Inter
but if he pushes for a move to Milan or something like that I think he will continue to fade

the national team shirt fits Milito a few sizes too big
for some reason, the 9 position for us seems to be very personality based and most players, despite scoring and starring for their clubs, just can't step out of Bati/Crespo's shadow
of course it would help if we had a systems coach who made that role more interchangeable...remember how Tevez starred as lone striker under Bielsa..now with two other strikers he doesn't get close anymore :mad:

and Pastore, well, I honestly think it would be harmful to call him right now
he certainly has promise and may even star in the future, but he is no answer to the terrible problems our midfield has right now

I think we need to call upon associations that have worked in the past, particularly with Cambiasso and Masche in the middle
but this is not the only thing we have to do..we need to get Maradona out or somehow marginalise him, which will never happen..just a new coach will do
maybe Felipao *hides* :p

[roy4hire]

Pastore is about to get his italian passport, italy is about to call him to it's national team, that's why he could be called in the coming friendly (negiria) on 9-jul-2009 in argentina. home based players.

[msi2]

Pastore is about to get his italian passport, italy is about to call him to it's national team, that's why he could be called in the coming friendly (negiria) on 9-jul-2009 in argentina. home based players.

Where did you see that?

[Raioneru]

Hello I just read that,, the president of the argentinian federation sayd he "has found the key" to the problem and that, it might about bringing back riquelme to the argentinian NT.

__

isn't riquelme a No 10 right? it might be good to have someone with experience who create a proper gameplay for argentinia?
or should argentinia just do without him?

[DSGB]

Hello I just read that,, the president of the argentinian federation sayd he "has found the key" to the problem and that, it might about bringing back riquelme to the argentinian NT.

__

isn't riquelme a No 10 right? it might be good to have someone with experience who create a proper gameplay for argentinia?
or should argentinia just do without him?

As long as Maradona is the coach, I don't see Román coming back.

[chelsea_fan]

bring pablo aimar back in the playmakers role. :(

[roy4hire]

Where did you see that?

argentinian radio about an article on gazzetta dello sport.

[west501]

I have the feeling a lot of us will have a chance to be called to the Italian national team now :rolleyes:

also, I wonder who will replace Maradona
a number of us have been calling for his head and I have the feeling that Brasil and Paraguay will be too much for him, particularly if we only get one or no points and our qualification comes into serious question
I was thinking it was smart that Bianchi did not return to coaching
any others?
also I always thought that Diaz and Gallego would be good for the job
I think some of the class of 86 deserve a shot
Ruggeri, Batista, Burruchaga, Russo, Gareca
new coaches might also deserve a shot
Sensini, Simeone
some are more able than others, but all are serious coaches and much better options than Maradona

[msi2]

Ruggeri, Batista and even Burru out for me.
Bianchi doesnt want to coach Boca, so imagine the NT.... :rolleyes:
Russo is not good enough for me.
Then we have Ramon and El Tolo.
I like Ramon but more for what he has done for River during the 90' rather than anything else but the NT is something else. Plus, from what i have seen, he's costly and Grondona doesnt like that.
I think i would go with Gallego. He has personnality (some would say too much), he is a winner, he has experience and i'm sure he would have to coach other types of players that what he has currently at Independiente.

EDIT:

Though as time is passing, i'm less and less sure about local league coaches.

[west501]

of those, Bianchi is maybe the one true genius, but I think that works against us, as he's smart enough to stay away from this toxic situation
plus I think he'd be a great coach to build, not rescue, a team
what Diaz and Tolo have going for them is that they know how to manage talented players, something Simeone doesn't know much about
the others would be a risk, but I still insist that all we need is a well worked team, because we certainly have the players to beat anyone in the world
we just don't have someone capable of making them play together
Basile was a huge mistake, and Diego perhaps the biggest mistake ever
but I think we can walk away at this point and it would be just fine..as long as we make the cup

[akd]

who knows if Diego leaves, Bilardo would probably be left as the coach? Also, as suspected, Grondona has been pushing for Riquelme to return back to the NT. Boca has also offered themselves as a possible host of the next round of WC qualifiers due to that Central has had problems in getting their stadium up to par with FIFA standards.

From my biased point of view, I would like to see Caruso Lombardi as the coach of the NT after next years world cup...if he could pull up Racing from the hole that we were in, imagine what he could do with this team:o

On another note, I am tired of seeing our young talents get tempted to play for other NT (Forestieri and know Pastore), but we should also give a chance to Higuaín who could have easily played for France but decided to play for Argentina and has not been called.

Also, I know some of you may think I'm crazy...but doesn't Leandro Caruso (ex Godoy Cruz know Udinese player) deserve a callup to the NT, as he has been playing great? Same goes for Mario Bolatti of Huracán

[msi2]

Right now my only hope is we have to qualify.

[Arg10]

Right now my only hope is we have to qualify.

Totally agree. But at some point, we can't just keep putting the blame on Diego(though he deserves about 99.9% of it). The players have to do something on the pitch. They are really missing that "winner's" mentality that Germany was born with and Brazil has always had. You look at the team and sure you have Mascherano as the captain, a leader, but he and Messi cannot do everything together. Aguero has done shit all in his NT career. Maxi has been way too inconsistent and Gago(at the moment) is not NT material, but atleast still gives it his all. And where the flying fuck are Cambiasso and Higuain?!

Sadly, even if we only get 1 point or 0 points in our next 2 matches, there's no way Diego is going to quit and there's even less of a chance that he gets fired. I'd love to see Bianchi coach us, but he's turned it down too many times. Bielsa is doing wonders with Chile, just imagine what he can do with our crop of players. There's only one logical solution... PEKERMAN!

[msi2]

About Bianchi, forget him about coaching the NT one day, especially if Grondona is still in place. They dont like each other at all!

EDIT:

On the top of that, Bianchi is at Boca asa manager and was proposed a few weeks ago to return as a coach but refused because he's not motivated enough to take the role, so imagine the NT...

[akd]

Totally agree. But at some point, we can't just keep putting the blame on Diego(though he deserves about 99.9% of it). The players have to do something on the pitch. They are really missing that "winner's" mentality that Germany was born with and Brazil has always had. You look at the team and sure you have Mascherano as the captain, a leader, but he and Messi cannot do everything together. Aguero has done shit all in his NT career. Maxi has been way too inconsistent and Gago(at the moment) is not NT material, but atleast still gives it his all. And where the flying fuck are Cambiasso and Higuain?!

Sadly, even if we only get 1 point or 0 points in our next 2 matches, there's no way Diego is going to quit and there's even less of a chance that he gets fired. I'd love to see Bianchi coach us, but he's turned it down too many times. Bielsa is doing wonders with Chile, just imagine what he can do with our crop of players. There's only one logical solution... PEKERMAN!

Pekerman? No no, ya fue...que pase el que sigue:p

[Arg10]

Pekerman? No no, ya fue...que pase el que sigue:p

Yeah, he had his chance, but I'd take him over Diego any day. Hell, I'm willing to take Passarella over Diego right now. :eek:

In all seriousness, who are the real candidates to replace Diego, when/if he quits/gets fired?

[msi2]

Yeah, he had his chance, but I'd take him over Diego any day. Hell, I'm willing to take Passarella over Diego right now. :eek:

In all seriousness, who are the real candidates to replace Diego, when/if he quits/gets fired?

I suppose Batista will take on if we have to come to this extreme situation.

[akd]

Yeah, he had his chance, but I'd take him over Diego any day. Hell, I'm willing to take Passarella over Diego right now. :eek:

In all seriousness, who are the real candidates to replace Diego, when/if he quits/gets fired?

Bilardo. Maybe? I would really like to see what Caruso Lombardi can do, obviously if he goes back to Racing afterwards:D

For the next game, can't we make a team with a mix of players from Huracán and Vélez and maybe add Mascherano and Messi to the mix? :-P

[roy4hire]

who knows if Diego leaves, Bilardo would probably be left as the coach? Also, as suspected, Grondona has been pushing for Riquelme to return back to the NT. Boca has also offered themselves as a possible host of the next round of WC qualifiers due to that Central has had problems in getting their stadium up to par with FIFA standards.

From my biased point of view, I would like to see Caruso Lombardi as the coach of the NT after next years world cup...if he could pull up Racing from the hole that we were in, imagine what he could do with this team:o

On another note, I am tired of seeing our young talents get tempted to play for other NT (Forestieri and know Pastore), but we should also give a chance to Higuaín who could have easily played for France but decided to play for Argentina and has not been called.

Also, I know some of you may think I'm crazy...but doesn't Leandro Caruso (ex Godoy Cruz know Udinese player) deserve a callup to the NT, as he has been playing great? Same goes for Mario Bolatti of Huracán

Mario Bolatti was going to be called up on the next friendly but it has been canceled. Mario Bolatti should have a go he's better then gago for me.
About Higuaín, he won't be called because of other reasons like cambiaso etc.
let's hope this changes, but it looks like we are going to strugle to qualify.
main reason maradona he's causing to many problems which has nothing to do with futbol.
bilardo was about to quit this week, but they told him to wait until the end of the qualifiers.

[msi2]

Mario Bolatti was going to be called up on the next friendly but it has been canceled. Mario Bolatti should have a go he's better then gago for me.
About Higuaín, he won't be called because of other reasons like cambiaso etc.
let's hope this changes, but it looks like we are going to strugle to qualify.
main reason maradona he's causing to many problems which has nothing to do with futbol.
bilardo was about to quit this week, but they told him to wait until the end of the qualifiers.

Man what a disaster... :o

[threervana]

Man what a disaster... :o

Probably the biggest one in NT history.:o

God bless ARG NT.:(

[west501]

it wouldn't be the first real disaster in our footballing history..
remember that we couldn't get it together and used to fail to make world cups in the pre-78 days
I can't help but fear that after having such great teams in 1994, 1998, 2002, and 2006, that this soul searching was long overdue
what is true is that it has been a long while since I have seen us so weak in the midfield and definitely so poorly coached
despite being the greatest player the game has seen, Diego is probably the worst coach of all time
but I do remember some frustration at Pekerman leading up to the world cup, so maybe if we make it, the players can prove themselves there

[msi2]

what is true is that it has been a long while since I have seen us so weak in the midfield and definitely so poorly coached



In midfield (carrilleros but no creative midfielder, defensive midfield too, in defence (probably the weakest lineup in years... maybe in decades!) and terribly unbalanced in attack (los chiquitos have to die).

Between players who are getting too old (Zanetti), who shouldnt be there (Heinze, "Caca" Diaz...), in poor form (Gago, Maxi, Aguero (in the NT), Demichelis) and who are doing well in clubs but not so in with us (Messi mainly), the the picture is kind apocalyptic right now. :eek:

[roy4hire]

In midfield (carrilleros but no creative midfielder, defensive midfield too, in defence (probably the weakest lineup in years... maybe in decades!) and terribly unbalanced in attack (los chiquitos have to die).

Between players who are getting too old (Zanetti), who shouldnt be there (Heinze, "Caca" Diaz...), in poor form (Gago, Maxi, Aguero (in the NT), Demichelis) and who are doing well in clubs but not so in with us (Messi mainly), the the picture is kind apocalyptic right now. :eek:

for me you you are right on the money, i agree with everything you said.
aguero & tevez (on the banch) can't start, but we can't experiment to much, we have to hope we qualify, then a new story begins, i still think maradona will no coach the world cup.

everyday somthing is happening with the national team and has nothing to do with futbol. expect in the next few days a big outburst from maradona after an AFA official trashed maradona on public radio and said he wanted batista in charged, calling maradona's management team all sorts of name, it's bad enought we have tought games coming up but all this bullshit, something is going to give.

Let's hope we qualify get reed of this payaso (maradona was my idol but i lost all respect for him after all the things his done in this last 8 months, (all the fights he has, especially on tv threatening gorosito about making pablic his affair with an ex-players wife), then get a sereious coach and enjoy the world cup.

[msi2]

for me you you are right on the money, i agree with everything you said.
aguero & tevez (on the banch) can't start, but we can't experiment to much, we have to hope we qualify, then a new story begins, i still think maradona will no coach the world cup.

everyday somthing is happening with the national team and has nothing to do with futbol. expect in the next few days a big outburst from maradona after an AFA official trashed maradona on public radio and said he wanted batista in charged, calling maradona's management team all sorts of name, it's bad enought we have tought games coming up but all this bullshit, something is going to give.

Let's hope we qualify get reed of this payaso (maradona was my idol but i lost all respect for him after all the things his done in this last 8 months, (all the fights he has, especially on tv threatening gorosito about making pablic his affair with an ex-players wife), then get a sereious coach and enjoy the world cup.

LMAO, completely forgot that story. :D:D

[roy4hire]

here is an article of what maradona said today on radio. it's in spanish.

Argentina se ubica en la cuarta posición en la tabla de las Eliminatorias Sudamericanas rumbo al Mundial de Sudáfrica 2010. Acumula 22 puntos cuando quedan cuatro fechas y Ecuador, hoy en puesto de repechaje, está a dos unidades. Por eso el próximo partido es fundamental para el equipo de Diego Maradona, aunque el rival no es uno más. La Selección recibirá a Brasil el próximo 5 de septiembre en la cancha de Rosario Central. Y hoy el entrenador argentino tocó vario temas en declaraciones en radio La Red.

Diego dijo que "Brasil está ligando de una manera increíble". También le respondió a Enrique Merelas, presidente de El Porvenir y dirigente de peso en la AFA, que había dicho que la "Selección es un cachivache". "A los dirigentes que tiran petardos no les doy bola. Se quieren hacer conocer a través mío". Maradona, además, habló de Riquelme: "Yo no estoy con un látigo, él es convocable, pero se tiene que adaptar a lo que quiere el técnico". También contó que se siente respaldado por Julio Grondona, presidente de AFA; que convocará a Mario Bolatti para que se sume al combinado local y volvió a desestimar la posibilidad de llamar a Gonzalo Higuaín.

Dijo Diego:

El tema de la sede: "El partido contra Colombia, la cancha de River era ridícula, era quedar mal ante todo el mundo. Tomamos la decisión de que necesitábamos mucho más apoyo. Había que tener una alternativa, pero nadie se lo pedía Grondona. Así que ahora tenemos la alternativa de jugar en la cancha de Rosario Central. Yo no voy contra River, voy contra Aguilar. Que quede claro. Yo les dije a mis abogados que vayan en contra de Aguilar. Con River no tengo ningún problema".

La respuesta para Merelas: "Me siento respaldado. Por Carlos (Bilardo), por Mancu, por los profes, por el tordo... A los dirigentes que tiran petardos no les doy bola. Se quieren hacer conocer a través mío. Si quieren hablar conmigo yo estoy día por medio en la AFA. Yo no maté a nadie, pueden hablar conmigo tranquilamente. Pero prefieren agarrar el cucurucho. No te enfrentan, y si no te enfrentan no sirve para nada".

El cuerpo técnico: "Nosotros estamos muy unidos, sabemos bien lo que queremos, sabemos bien lo que tenemos. El que se pone a hablar es porque no tiene cabida. O porque en su momento no se llevó a cabo la idea de lo que quería. Acá el que habla es porque su voto para ser el técnico era para el Tata Brown".

Lo que se viene: "Sabemos que vamos a enfrentar a Brasil, después hay que ir a Paraguay, después viene Perú y al final Uruguay... Sabemos que tenemos partidos chivos, pero esos son los partidos que juegan los Verón, los Mascherano, los Messi, los Tevez, los Agüero... Está ligando Brasil de una manera increíble. Dunga todavía no le encontró la vuelta en el marcador de punta. Pero Brasil es Kaká, es Luis Fabiano... tenemos que estar atentos. Atentos como siempre, no nos podemos descuidar".

El caso Riquelme: "A mi Grondona en ningún momento me pidió por Riquelme, ni me hizo ningún comentario. Yo voy a seguir diciendo lo mismo que siempre: Riquelme es convocable, pero tendrá que adaptarse a lo que quiere el técnico, no a lo que quiere Riquelme. Se adaptaron Verón, el Kun, Messi, grandes figuras... Yo no estoy con el látigo. Yo no le voy a pedir a Riquelme que me venga a ganar los partidos. Los partidos los tenemos que ganar entre todos. Pero cuando se habla de Riquelme se calienta mucho más la cosa porque es un gran jugador y porque juega en Boca".

Bolatti e Higuaín: "Me impresionó mucho Bolatti. Yo se lo había marcado a Mauricio Macri, pero después lo vendieron a Portugal. Pero sigo mirando jugadores. Al Pipita, el día que tenga las cosas claras para llamarlo, lo voy a llamar. Pero en ese puesto tengo jugadores de mucho peso. Hizo una gran temporada, no soy tonto. Podría estar en las gateras, o en la pole position, pero no es el momento. Tampoco lo descarto de ninguna manera".

[west501]

Argentina is in fourth place in the standings for the South American World Cup Qualifying group for South Africa 2010. With four matches remaining they have 22 points and Ecuador, currently in the playoff spot, is two points under. This is why the next match is so important for Diego Maradona's team, though the rival is not just anyone. The Selección will host Brazil next September 5th in Rosario Central's stadium. Today the trainer touched on various topics in declarations to Radio La Red.

Diego said that "Brazil is arriving in incredible form." He also responded to Enrique Merelas, president of El Porvenir and an upper manager at AFA, who had said that "the Selección is garbage." "To those who make noise I pay no mind. They only want to be recognized by talking about me." Maradona also spoke of Riquelme: "I am not holding a whip, he can be called, but he has to adapt to what I want." He also said he feels support from AFA President, Julio Grondona, that he will call Mario Bolatti to the local call-up and he continued to refuse to call-up Gonzalo Higuaín.

Diego said:

With regards to the stadium: "In the match against Colombia, River's pitch was ridiculous, it was an embarrassment in front of everyone. We made the decision that we needed much more support. We had to have an alternative, but no one had asked Grondona. So we now have the alternative to play on the pitch of Rosario Central. I'm not going against river, I'm against Aguilar. Let it be clear. I told my lawyers to go against Aguilar. I have no problem with River."

The response to Merelas: "I feel supported. By Carlos (Bilardo), by Mancu, by the professors, by the people... To those who make noise I pay no mind. They only want to be recognised by talking about me. If they want to speak to me I am always at AFA. I didn't kill anyone, they can speak to me freely. But they prefer to sound the horns. They don't confront you, and if they don't it doesn't help anyone.."

The training staff: "We are very united, we know very well what we want, we know well what we have. The one who starts talking has no capacity. Or maybe in his time he didn't get what he wanted. Here the one who talks does so because his vote for trainer was el Tata Brown."

What is to come: "We know we are going to face Brazil, then we have to go to Paraguay, then Perú comes and then we go to Uruguay... We know we have tough matches, but those are the matches where the Veróns, the Mascheranos, the Messi's, the Tevez', the Agüero's... Brazil arrives in incredible form. Dunga hasn't figured out his wing backs. But Brazil is Kaká, is Luis Fabiano... we need to be alert. Alert as always, we can't lose our cool."

The Riquelme case: "Grondona never asked me for Riquelme, nor did he make any comments. I will continue saying the same thing: Riquelme can be called, but he has to adapt to what I want, not to what he wants. Verón, el Kún, Messi, big names, have all adapted... I am not holding a whip. I won't ask Riquelme to come win matches for me. We have to win matches as a team. But when we talk of Riquelme it takes on a different meaning because he is a great player and because he plays for Boca."

Bolatti and Higuaín: "Bolatti quite amazed me. I had told Mauricio Macri, but then they sold him to Portugal. But I keep my eye on players. The day I have a clear reason to call el Pipita, I will call him. But I already have big name players for that role. He had a fantastic season, I'm not dumb. He can play behind the forwards or as centre-forward, but this is not the time. But I don't rule him by any means."

I cannot stand Diego Armando Maradona any longer.

I feel like the football world is returning to its normal state:
Brazil are again at the top, with a highly overrated team that will likely not get far in the WC.
El Coco Basile has returned to coach Boca after the terrible mistake that it was to hire him.
And hopefully Diego Armando Maradona will return to the owners box at la Bombonera, left to lose his voice exaggeratedly screaming for his one true love, left to editorialize about ridiculous players like el Cata Díaz or Sebastián Battaglia and their deserving a call-up, left to live in a not-so-quiet but highly irrelevant post-retirement footballer desperation, after the terrible mistake that it was to hire him.

If there is one Argentine I do not want to see in South Africa, it is Diego Armando Maradona.

[roy4hire]

I cannot stand Diego Armando Maradona any longer.



If there is one Argentine I do not want to see in South Africa, it is Diego Armando Maradona.


im with you, I cannot stand him any more, im sick of him, i hope they get flogged in the friendly against russia in august.

i want this sick mogolico out of our national team.

[Arg10]

I cannot stand Diego Armando Maradona any longer.

I feel like the football world is returning to its normal state:
Brazil are again at the top, with a highly overrated team that will likely not get far in the WC.
El Coco Basile has returned to coach Boca after the terrible mistake that it was to hire him.
And hopefully Diego Armando Maradona will return to the owners box at la Bombonera, left to lose his voice exaggeratedly screaming for his one true love, left to editorialize about ridiculous players like el Cata Díaz or Sebastián Battaglia and their deserving a call-up, left to live in a not-so-quiet but highly irrelevant post-retirement footballer desperation, after the terrible mistake that it was to hire him.

If there is one Argentine I do not want to see in South Africa, it is Diego Armando Maradona.

His reason for not calling up Gonzalo is because he already has "big name players"?! Diego must be on some heavy shit. If thats the case, then don't call up any other strikers if you have your "big name strikers". And I'm sorry, but Higuain>Milito>Bergessio. Yet the last 2 keep getting called up. My head is going to explode. It's clear that he's going into the Brazil match with no game-plan, the same way he went into the Bolivia match and our last 2 WCQ matches.

Why wasn't Cambiasso's name mentioned anywhere? Or does no one in the Argentine press give a flying fuck about him.

[msi2]

His reason for not calling up Gonzalo is because he already has "big name players"?! Diego must be on some heavy shit. If thats the case, then don't call up any other strikers if you have your "big name strikers". And I'm sorry, but Higuain>Milito>Bergessio. Yet the last 2 keep getting called up. My head is going to explode. It's clear that he's going into the Brazil match with no game-plan, the same way he went into the Bolivia match and our last 2 WCQ matches.

Why wasn't Cambiasso's name mentioned anywhere? Or does no one in the Argentine press give a flying fuck about him.


That's it. Noone cares about him. He isnt very rated over there.

[threervana]

That's it. Noone cares about him. He isnt very rated over there.

Basically due to his poor performance in NT, right?:(

[msi2]

Basically due to his poor performance in NT, right?:(

Exactly. People couldnt care less if one player's shinning in Inter, Barcelona or Real Madrid. What you do with the blue and white shirt is what matters and in this aspect, not a lot are getting favors of people right now.

[threervana]

Exactly. People couldnt care less if one player's shinning in Inter, Barcelona or Real Madrid. What you do with the blue and white shirt is what matters and in this aspect, not a lot are getting favors of people right now.

True.

In this aspect, even Gago is a little bit superior than Cambiasso...:eek:

So far, only Messi, Mascherano, and maybe Andujar, have gotten the favors of fans. So pathetic!!

[msi2]

True.

In this aspect, even Gago is a little bit superior than Cambiasso...:eek:

So far, only Messi, Mascherano, and maybe Andujar, have gotten the favors of fans. So pathetic!!

Not really for Messi...

EDIT:

I'm telling you, people over there are getting bloody tried of the constant failures of the "Europeos" (llike they are called) and are feeling they are just a bunch of mercenaries. I dont know i used to disagree with this assessment but after that famous game against Chile (the one we lost 1-0, with a shambolic performance from Messi and Aguero notably), i'm not so sure anymore. Anyway, the current crop of players dont give me a lot of confidence of the qualification, i dont feel the desire to surpass themselves, just to be there because they are somewhat forced to be here but without a true desire to be there (man that sentence is awful but i couldnt express myself better :p).
This when you add the non-existant coaching of Maradona, you have to understand my skepticism. Who knows though, miracle can happen... but it needs to happen against Brazil.

[threervana]

Not really for Messi...

EDIT:

I'm telling you, people over there are getting bloody tried of the constant failures of the "Europeos" (llike they are called) and are feeling they are just a bunch of mercenaries. I dont know i used to disagree with this assessment but after that famous game against Chile (the one we lost 1-0, with a shambolic performance from Messi and Aguero notably), i'm not so sure anymore. Anyway, the current crop of players dont give me a lot of confidence of the qualification, i dont feel the desire to surpass themselves, just to be there because they are somewhat forced to be here but without a true desire to be there (man that sentence is awful but i couldnt express myself better :p).
This when you add the non-existant coaching of Maradona, you have to understand my skepticism. Who knows though, miracle can happen... but it needs to happen against Brazil.

Maybe miracle would happen as this bunch of mercenaries have to save Diego's arse now!:D

[west501]

I never thought of this before, but I guess Diego can call himself up if we have to go to Concacaf :eek:
it'll be like 94 all over again only this time it'll be viagra :p

edit: we should probably stop with all the Diego bashing, no?
we're still two months away from the matches..I think for now my sig is enough
it's just that there is no other interesting news these days....

did anyone catch the Velez-Huracan match? how incredible was that?

[threervana]

I never thought of this before, but I guess Diego can call himself up if we have to go to Concacaf :eek:
it'll be like 94 all over again only this time it'll be viagra :p

edit: we should probably stop with all the Diego bashing, no?
we're still two months away from the matches..I think for now my sig is enough
it's just that there is no other interesting news these days....

did anyone catch the Velez-Huracan match? how incredible was that?

Shitty Ref!! A bit unfair game. But still congrats to Velez, they outclassed Huracan in the final. Actually, before Cappa replaced Nieto by Cesar, that was a balanced game. His conservativeness made him pay evently, which reminds me of the quarter final against Germany in 2006 when Perkerman replaced Roman by Cambiasso.:(

[west501]

It was a very bad call that cost huracan the tournament, but they didn't play true to their style and paid for it
they could have run away with it if they'd scored the first goal but you also must give credit to velez for playing an excellent match
que idiota Maxi Moralez pero igual es un crack!!! :p
speaking of idiots, D'Alessandro pulled a famous scandal in brazil...somehow doubt he'll play there again :eek::eek:

[threervana]

It was a very bad call that cost huracan the tournament, but they didn't play true to their style and paid for it
they could have run away with it if they'd scored the first goal but you also must give credit to velez for playing an excellent match
que idiota Maxi Moralez pero igual es un crack!!! :p
speaking of idiots, D'Alessandro pulled a famous scandal in brazil...somehow doubt he'll play there again :eek::eek:

A stupid fight that he even didn't touch his target:D Typical Cabezon!:cool:

I guess he did it for the purpose of leaving Brazil

[west501]

he can come back to River

and also, I didn't want to say it before because I didn't want to sound like a bad person (though I guess its inevitable at this point)
but before the match on Sunday, I kind of wanted Velez to win because...I don't like Huracan's fans....there you have it :eek::(:rolleyes:
don't get me wrong, I have been rooting for them ever since it was obvious we couldn't reach the top, but only for the football
but now that the match ended the way it did, it is even worse :eek:
observen (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/07/07/futbollocal/01954498.html) :eek::eek::eek:
has to be, along with Nueva Chicago, the worst fans in the city!

In other news, Lucho and Licha have moved from Porto to Ligue 1 (OM and Lyon, respectively)
el Pipita appears to be staying at Madrid and two things can happen:
1) he can start amongst Los nuevos Galacticos and maybe we can see him finally for the national team
2) he could end up like Carlitos and move after a year of being surplus to the team
I obviously want number one, and hope el Ingeniero's past experience with River can help Gonza out
of course if things really go badly for us and really well with Karim...:eek:

[roy4hire]

maradona is calling palermo for the russian friendly, he want's a big 9 against brazil, what a joke, gonsalo is not in it for other reasons, as is cambiaso and in radio a lot ask why he's not in it and maradona was clear when he was appointed coach that same player have past their cycle (about cambiasso). in argettina everybody (fans) are sick of messi (for me he is unquestinable) and they hate aguero (i do too).

there are a few players that run that team, not maradona, and diego see that as a good thing as to have harmony, this is why some players are out; gonsalo-cambiasso- and maybe riquelme-zarate. does any body remember the game against peru were cambiaso score, it took a while and only a few ran to him to celebrate, players don't want him on the team as well as maradona .

he said he is going to re-call lucho & lavezzi again.

[msi2]

maradona is calling palermo for the russian friendly, he want's a big 9 against brazil, what a joke, gonsalo is not in it for other reasons, as is cambiaso and in radio a lot ask why he's not in it and maradona was clear when he was appointed coach that same player have past their cycle (about cambiasso). in argettina everybody (fans) are sick of messi (for me he is unquestinable) and they hate aguero (i do too).

there are a few players that run that team, not maradona, and diego see that as a good thing as to have harmony, this is why some players are out; gonsalo-cambiasso- and maybe riquelme-zarate. does any body remember the game against peru were cambiaso score, it took a while and only a few ran to him to celebrate, players don't want him on the team as well as maradona .

he said he is going to re-call lucho & lavezzi again.

Palermo is slow as f***...
As for Gonzalo and Cambiasso, well not surprising unfortunately.

For Messi and Aguero... not surprising either. The first is way too overhyped imo for what he has done for the NT so far and no matter what he will the first player playing for the NT who never played in the argentinian local league in people's mind. Most of people couldnt care less if he's brilliant in Barcelona.
For Aguero, i dislike him too. There's something that emanates from him i cant stand and for football reasons, he has sucked hard until now.


If the team crashes, a good cleanup of some players will be needed i fear.

EDIT:

The supposedly core group who doesnt want some players is based on some tangible informations or just rumors?