The Vamos Albiceleste thread v2.0 **SPOILERS**

[roy4hire]

Palermo is slow as f***...
As for Gonzalo and Cambiasso, well not surprising unfortunately.

For Messi and Aguero... not surprising either. The first is way too overhyped imo for what he has done for the NT so far and no matter what he will the first player playing for the NT who never played in the argentinian local league in people's mind. Most of people couldnt care less if he's brilliant in Barcelona.
For Aguero, i dislike him too. There's something that emanates from him i cant stand and for football reasons, he has sucked hard until now.


If the team crashes, a good cleanup of some players will be needed i fear.

EDIT:

The supposedly core group who doesnt want some players is based on some tangible informations or just rumors?

an afa official (againt diego appoiment) saying it on radio, i have that interview then mancuso speaks and the crap he says is to laugh, for example he said; maradona has not problem playing at river (monumental) if the ground is good etc, the next day diego cames out in radio and said he doen't want to play in river because it's a family envierment cold etc. this people are full of shit. one more thing, in afa, officials are saying that maradona picks player were the player representive pays diego to pick him so to get values and moved to europe.
example, the 3rd goalkeaper from mexico who nobody knows in he's 30's and others.

if you like i can put that interview here if im allowed, is in spanish.

[DSGB]

Palermo is slow as f***...
As for Gonzalo and Cambiasso, well not surprising unfortunately.

For Messi and Aguero... not surprising either. The first is way too overhyped imo for what he has done for the NT so far and no matter what he will the first player playing for the NT who never played in the argentinian local league in people's mind. Most of people couldnt care less if he's brilliant in Barcelona.
For Aguero, i dislike him too. There's something that emanates from him i cant stand and for football reasons, he has sucked hard until now.


If the team crashes, a good cleanup of some players will be needed i fear.

EDIT:

The supposedly core group who doesnt want some players is based on some tangible informations or just rumors?

The sooner we take the politics out of our team, the sooner we'll see good results, in my opinion. Unfortunately the only thing Maradona has brought to this team is drama. The focus is becoming less and less on the team and more on what stupid action Maradona is going to do next. Bring in a real coach and end all of this political BS and we'll be much better off. Since that won't be happening any time soon, we'll just have to settle for half-rate performances and off the field drama.

[roy4hire]

The sooner we take the politics out of our team, the sooner we'll see good results, in my opinion. Unfortunately the only thing Maradona has brought to this team is drama. The focus is becoming less and less on the team and more on what stupid action Maradona is going to do next. Bring in a real coach and end all of this political BS and we'll be much better off. Since that won't be happening any time soon, we'll just have to settle for half-rate performances and off the field drama.

that's is what we need to stop all this crap, but with maradona it just won't happen, what he needs is to focus on the team and to know thet he is about to leave us out of the world cup.

i forgot to metion that from afa they said that if we qualify, mohamed the colon coach will be brought to the coaching stuff. they wanted him for the olympics team, more problems what is maradona going to say about that.

i hope im wrong but i think maradona was brought to the team by fifa to take the focus out of africa and on to him in the world cup, because that is what he does. it's my opinion and a bit far fatch i know.

[threervana]

that's is what we need to stop all this crap, but with maradona it just won't happen, what he needs is to focus on the team and to know thet he is about to leave us out of the world cup.

i forgot to metion that from afa they said that if we qualify, mohamed the newl's coach will be brought to the coaching stuff. they wanted him for the olympics team, more problems what is maradona going to say about that.

i hope im wrong but i think maradona was brought to the team by fifa to take the focus out of africa and on to him in the world cup, because that is what he does. it's my opinion and a bit far fatch i know.

mohamed needs to be brought into the coaching stuff ASAP!!:cool:

But will Diego listen to him??:mad:

[west501]

congratulations to Veron for leading Estudiantes to be Champions of America 40 years after his father did so
what a player, what a family

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2009/7/16/1247732977703/Juan-Sebastian-Veron-001.jpg

he was instrumental in Estudiantes 2-1 victory coming from a goal down
on their first goal la Brujita called for the ball and in one pass broke down Cruzeiro's defence, leading to former River Plate player la Gata Fernandez to equalise
after that it was only a matter of time before they won
great match
hopefully he can play this inspired against Brazil's national team

[robin9]

Veron is in the argentina team ?

[west501]

when he's not injured he's been getting called up
it's not just because of the Libertadores..his considerable genius has been quite evident since his return to Argentina
he was the South American Footballer of the Year 2008, despite not winning any trophies

[Arg10]

News coming out of the press is that Palacio is arriving in Italy today to sign for Genoa?! A Crespo/Palacio partnership, will be interesting to see how that works out.

This video is for you guest. Saviola and Aimar playing for Benfica(Aimar gets tripped in the box and Saviola scores from the penalty spot). And Di Maria scored the other goal for Benfica as well.
v/UZqKQScCEDE

Interesting transfer market for Argentina fans. Tevez to City, Saviola to Benfica, Crespo to Genoa, Lucho to Marseille and Lopez to Lyon...

Back to the Maradona situation, FIFA sent inspectors to the Rosario stadium to see if it can be used for future International matches. If FIFA says yes, Diego might get his wish and play there instead of the River Plate stadium.

[west501]

A Crespo/Palacio partnership, will be interesting to see how that works out.

This video is for you guest. Saviola and Aimar playing for Benfica(Aimar gets tripped in the box and Saviola scores from the penalty spot). And Di Maria scored the other goal for Benfica as well.

Back to the Maradona situation, FIFA sent inspectors to the Rosario stadium to see if it can be used for future International matches. If FIFA says yes, Diego might get his wish and play there instead of the River Plate stadium.

Palacio obviously works very well with a targetman, so I'm sure everyone is excited, not least of all Crespo, who with a big season can bring his name back to the papers

screw Porto, Benfica are now my team in Portugal :p
now you know why I never supported another team..
talk to west2000 and I was a Lazio fan, west2001 was a Roma fan

we all know the real reason Diego wants to move the seleccion is because he's afraid he won't fill River
I am surprisingly not averse to this though..Menotti did similar but I am not comparing the two :rolleyes:

[west501]

looks like Milito started well for his new club
in other news, olé is trying to push some papers and Diego is looking for attention :rolleyes:
source (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/07/27/seleccion/01966131.html)

FYI it took me an hour to translate so I would hope some of the anglos read it :o
a lot of comments, some more colourful than others *Ruggeri :mad:*, came up as I did this, but I am exhausted and will have to comment at another time

-Was it easier to be Maradona the player than Maradona the national team trainer?

It was undoubtedly easier to be the player: I only thought of getting the ball and having fun. Now I have to be in charge of over 20 players. There are still situations I find difficult. I'll tell you one thing: the other day there was a free kick in the training and Messi takes it. I stood to the side, the ball hits the wall and comes to me... I set up to take the left footed strike, it was sitting so nicely. The player in me came out. I said to myself: I'll take it. Someone must have noticed because my eyes were so wide.

-In this moment of your career as a trainer, what are the strengths you recognise in yourself and what are your weaknesses?

-I know the best I can do for the players is share my experience and I base myself on that. I am sure that they see that if I'm doing well, they will do well. And that is my strength. And of course I am gaining experience as I follow this path. Experiences that have gone well for me and those that have gone poorly, but I always look the players in the face. That's what I was taught by el Flaco Menotti, Bilardo, at one time el Coco Basile, Miguel Angel López...

-And what have you learned in these 8 months? What things will you do differently if they happen again?

-What I lament in my soul is not to have had el Cabezón Ruggeri at my side. He does have more experience and maybe he could have helped me. Maybe we could have done a better job. With Mancu and with Lemme I get along great and we make a good team. And Bilardo's help, of course. Anything I do I ask Carlos.

-There are players that say that having you is like seeing God in the dressing room. Is that the kind of impact that can serve to accelerate the speed of your work?

-I assumed risks. The other day I heard Basile say that he'd left the side qualified, and it's not true. We still have a long road to qualification. I lived the last stage of Basile in the Eliminatorias for WC 94. The Selección was qualified, but we had to go to Australia for the elimination. We were coming from beating everyone and the Colombians put in five. The Selección is not qualified. We have great players. And now we have to show the temperament of each player to go to the World Cup.

-Does the present situation worry you? Does it cause you a special anxiety?

-Worried, no. Yes it makes me anxious to have so much time to imagine the match, without having contact with the players... And I don't like that we have to play with Russia. We should put together the team for Brazil, but in the middle you get this match that doesn't help you.

-How do you live with that anxiety from day to day?

-Speaking with the boys. Knowing how Masche is doing. With Masche I speak a lot, I speak a lot with Heinze. It's impossible to find Messi. It's easier to talk to Obama than with Lío, ha. But sometimes I get him. I speak with el Kun, with Maxi. I kill the anxiety by watching videos too. I watch the matches we've played again.

-The other day you said you wake up at 4 in the morning with an idea and that you have to get up to take it down.

-It's true, it's true. All the time I get ideas for plays. For example the other day I thought of one you could do inside the box for an indirect free kick. Instead of shooting directly, I thought it better to make three touches because the keeper stands in front of the line of playes that are on the goal line. The idea is to get the keeper off focus with those distracting touches. And I drew it for Bilardo and he said it looked good because it took the keeper out from the center of the play and the defenders who were on the line because they'd go after the first touch. They are things that go through my head and I write them down and we put them in the books that Mancu and Lemme have.

-Do you see matches differently now? Do you see them with other eyes?

-Yes, I watch them totally differently. Now I don't want anyone to get hurt, I suffer with each tackle. When none of my players are involved I look at how the teams are situated, if they play with a line of three, if they play the offside at the midfield line, if they play high pressure. There are almost no individualities. But I look at everything.

-What phase of strength of leadership and popularity do you feel you occupy now?

-I put myself on the line with my players, I play with the boys. I won't lose my status and I won't lose the goals I've scored or anything like that. I have a lot of confidence in the team and I'm aching to play against Brazil.

-¿Leíste las declaraciones de Lucio? Dijo que quiere dejar fuera del Mundial a la Selección.
-Did you real Lucío's declarations? He said he wants to leave the Selección out of the World Cup.

-Yes, he said that when he took Lula the Confederations Cup. Let's see if they can. We have four f#$%ed up games, but we are aiming at the Brazilians. Brazil is the candidate to get beat.

-Tévez tends to be very authentic and said we will qualify, but with our arses in our hands. Do you think it's that way?

-Yo creo que nadie nos regaló nada. Si no lo obtenemos nosotros, Brasil no te va a venir a decir "tomen muchachos, acá tienen el plato servido". No, eso no va a suceder. Vamos a sufrir, vamos a enfrentar a un equipo que juega bien, que tiene cracks, que está ligando, que por jugar bien por mucho tiempo tiene Copas del Mundo a rolete. Pero nosotros somos Argentina. No hay que olvidarse de eso.
-I think no one gifted us anything. If we don't get this, Brazil won't come and say "here boys, dinner is served." No, that won't happen. We will suffer, we will face a team that plays well, that has stars, that is tearing it up, that for playing so well for so many years has World Cups to spare. But we are Argentina. We cannot forget that.

-If Paraguay beats Ecuador, would a tie against Brazil be a good result?

-I will go out for the win, I don't think about the 0 to 0. It doesn't cross my mind. I want to have things from Bilardo and from Menotti, but I don't think of the 0 to 0 and to play speculatively. Or for ball boys to hide the ball. Those are all dumb things that are bad for football. Hiding the ball is absolutely low, and it doesn't work for me. I would be very sad if I was winning 1 to 0 against Brazil and they hide the ball. Why? If we came to play football? But if we are up 1 to 0 on Brazil and I have to put in another midfielder to stop Brazil from rolling over us, I will do it. I will intervene and put in a stopper. Play for your life. But I don't think about speculating.

-Is it great news for you to play against Brazil in Rosario?

-I want it to be clear: I did not want this. The players were the ones that asked me for this. Since the times of Batistuta, of Crespo, I don't say Riquelme because he might deny it, everyone said that you cannot play in River. And when I got to the Selección, the first thing they asked was if we could leave River. I told them I would do anything possible. After the match with Ecuador there was a reunion here with the boys, Julio, and myself and we told him we wanted to go to Rosario. And that's how it went.

-This decision should be considered a personal victory for you then.

-It gives me pleasure because the players play where they want to, but it's not that we're going against River. The stands at River are 50 metres from the pitch and maybe there are players that feel that they won't get the cheers they could in Rosario. But the cheers that those in Rosario give us will be completely different than those we'd get in River. In River you can lose your voice from screaming and it will only get to the net.

-A while ago you spoke of the style and conclusion of the Clausura and it reignited a debate. Would you like the Selección to play like Huracán or Vélez?

-I want the Selección to have my style. I don't want my side to look like Cappa's or Gareca's. Vélez won well because they hurried Huracán and Huracán didn't play as well as they had been. The championships are won by always playing the same. The champion is the real champion. Huracán was run by Bolatti and Bolatti is already on the Selección.

-Did Bolatti surprise you?

-He totally surprised me. With the way he stopped four of Vélez that attacked him from all sides. And he was firm in the middle of the pitch, playing an inspiring match. And on top of that he came out with personality and would pass it to a teammate. He reminded me of Makelele in the final in Germany.

[msi2]

btw, one player is sure to not go to the WC is Cambiasso. Diego said he wasnt too fond of him, matter of taste he said... lmao.

[west501]

yes, I realise now there is more interview but I can't be arsed to translate it all :p

[threervana]

looks like Milito started well for his new club
in other news, olé is trying to push some papers and Diego is looking for attention :rolleyes:
source (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/07/27/seleccion/01966131.html)

FYI it took me an hour to translate so I would hope some of the anglos read it :o
a lot of comments, some more colourful than others *Ruggeri :mad:*, came up as I did this, but I am exhausted and will have to comment at another time

"I want the Selección to have my style":D

Hope you could show us in the South American Derby:cool:

[Arg10]

btw, one player is sure to not go to the WC is Cambiasso. Diego said he wasnt too fond of him, matter of taste he said... lmao.

Assuming we make it to the World Cup, I doubt we'll see him, you're right. Matter of taste, I swear Diego is making it harder and harder not to hate him.

The list is out for the Friendly against Russia and SURPRISE, SURPRISE!... No Higuain, Cambiasso or Zarate.

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo CARRIZO (Real Zaragoza, Spain)
Mariano ANDÚJAR (Catania, Italy)

Defenders:
Daniel DIAZ (Getafe, Spain)
Emiliano PAPA (Velez, Argentina)
Nicolás OTAMENDI (Velez, Argentina)
Gabriel HEINZE (Real Madrid, Spain)
Martín DEMICHELIS (Bayern Munich, Germany)
Nicolás BURDISSO (Inter, Italy)
Javier ZANETTI (Inter, Italy)

Midfielders:
Fernando GAGO (Real Madrid, Spain)
Mario BOLATTI (Huracán, Argentina)
Javier MASCHERANO (Liverpool, England)
Maximiliano RODRIGUEZ (Atlético Madrid, Spain)
Sebastián BATTAGLIA (Boca Juniors, Argentina)
Jonás GUTIERREZ (Newcastle United, England)
Jesús DÁTOLO (Napoli, Italy)
Juan Sebastián VERÓN (Estudiantes de La Plata, Argentina)

Forwards:
Lionel MESSI (Barcelona, Spain)
Sergio AGÜERO (Atlético Madrid, Spain)
Carlos TEVEZ (Manchester City, England)
Lisandro LOPEZ (Olympique Lyon, France)
Diego MILITO (Inter, Italy)
Ezequiel LAVEZZI (Napoli, Italy)

----------

Lavezzi over Higuain, sweet! Battaglia over Cambiasso! Double sweet! Emiliano Papa and Cata Diaz over anyone! Triple sweet! No wait, Quadrouple sweet!:o:mad:

Seriously, what kind of shit list is this? We all know its going to be Messi and Tevez or Messi and Aguero up front for 85 minutes. Then Diego brings on Diego Milito for 5 minutes and we lose(or at best, tie) the match.

In other sad news, Juan Pablo Sorin has called it quits. He's retired after 15 years of playing(he's 33). Too bad, I would take a crippled Sorin over Papa any day.

[west501]

where will this match take place? and when?
shows how much attention I am paying these days :o

[msi2]

Higuain's performances so far have been weak if reports are to believed, during this pre-season. To be followed but i hope he's not down after the massive campaign of recruitment Real Madrid is doing. Would be the perfect excuse for Maradona not to call him. :rolleyes:

where will this match take place? and when?
shows how much attention I am paying these days :o

August 12th, i dont know where exactly, it's playing in Russia. :p

[threervana]

Higuain's performances so far have been weak if reports are to believed, during this pre-season. To be followed but i hope he's not down after the massive campaign of recruitment Real Madrid is doing. Would be the perfect excuse for Maradona not to call him. :rolleyes:



August 12th, i dont know where exactly, it's playing in Russia. :p

I think it's in Moscow. So Messi, Gago and so on have to fly from USA to Russia then.


Sorin is surely the best #3 in the past decade for Arg.:o

He retired too early.:(

[msi2]

Apparently, Garay was also very bad against Al Ittihad... not very promising.

[robin9]

msi2 I think you are too harsh on Higuain and Garay, they had poor perfomances yea but these are the first friendles of the pre-season. Mid-August friendlies yea, then you can make some conclusions, but not now.

[msi2]

So, the decisive game against Brazil is coming fast and we had that friendly against the russians we won 3-2. What do people think of that performance, for those who saw the game?

Also I have another question, when do you think we had a true satisfying defence?

[west501]

So, the decisive game against Brazil is coming fast and we had that friendly against the russians we won 3-2. What do people think of that performance, for those who saw the game?

Also I have another question, when do you think we had a true satisfying defence?

just a few weeks now..I had computer problems right around the time of the Russia friendly and could not watch it though I have it backed up somewhere and may be I will watch soon
Bilardo's team in 90 had a great defence and tons of luck
Passarella/Bielsa's defence was good too, but Pekerman's team was ruined by el Pato's insecurity between the woodwork

the callup is out (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/08/22/deportes/d-01983370.htm)

Arqueros: Juan Pablo Carrizo (Zaragoza), Mariano Andújar (Catania) y Sergio Romero (AZ Alkmaar de Holanda).

Defensores: Nicolás Pareja (Espanyol), Javier Zanetti (Inter), Nicolás Burdisso (Inter), Fabricio Coloccini (Newcastle) y Gabriel Heinze (Olympique de Marsella).

Mediocampistas: Fernando Gago (Real Madrid), Maximiliano Rodríguez (Atlético de Madrid), Jesús Dátolo (Napoli), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool) y Jonás Gutiérrez (Newcastle).

Delanteros: Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli), Carlos Tevez (Manchester City), Diego Milito (Inter), Sergio Agüero (Atlético de Madrid) y Lisandro López (Olympique de Lyon).

out through injury Martín Demichelis (Bayern Munich), Luis González (Olympique de Marsella) y Daniel Díaz (Getafe).

from the national league the following are expected (unconfirmed) Nicolás Otamendi y Emiliano Papa (Vélez), Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes), Mario Bolatti (Huracán), Sebastián Battaglia (Boca) y otro defensor central: Sebastián Domínguez (Vélez) o Rolando Schiavi (Newell's).


I can't even say what I would like to see against Brazil..
I expect to see

Andujar
Zanetti-Otamendi-Heinze-Papa
Masche(c)-Gago-Jonás
Messi-Agüero-Tévez

I would prefer Juampa 'Julio César' Carrizo in net, no Papa, Gago, Jonás, and Licha up front over Agüero
Bolatti>Gago

what about

Carrizo
Burdisso-Pareja-Heinze
Zanetti-Masche(c)-Bolatti
Messi-Verón-Dátolo
Licha

[threervana]

I'm afriad Diego would probably show us such a formation:
Andujar
Zanetti Burdisso Heinze Papa
Maxi Gago/Veron Masche Jonas/Datolo
Messi Aguero/Tevez

But I just hope he would made a small change by replacing Maxi with Messi and put another forward in the front, Milito or Licha.

[west501]

I really hope Diego goes with Licha/Aguero in the next round, or Licha/Tevez
one of our biggest problems in recent matches is that we've put Aguero in as targetman and Tevez off to the left
a combination of Aguero (and Tevez) being off form, was lethal for us and the search for a 9 strangely parallels that which we had in the Bilardo years (I just watched the 1985 match vs Colombia)
this is the way I break it down
Second strikers: Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Lavezzi
Targetmen: Lisandro, Cavenaghi, Milito, Crespo

Higuain could go on both lists, which is to his detriment
imo we should callup Lisandro and Higuain for the 9 role..if Cavegol has another big season, he should be considered
will be interesting to see him vs Licha in the Ligue 1

[Arg10]

Jonas Gutierrez picked up an injury and is likely to miss the match against Brazil. Rumor has it that Datolo will start on the left in his place and Maxi on the right. Personally(and I know guest will disagree with me on this one), I think this is a huge blow. Gutierrez really does all the dirty work and is the closest thing we have to Sorin. Energetic on the left, runs up and down helping our shitty defence as best as he can.

Any ideas on who will start on the left?

[threervana]

Guess Datolo would get the upper hand as Diego start treating him as one of his sons now:D

But I prefer Messi on the left or either Maxi or Datolo on the left while starting Messi as the right mid.

[west501]

I haven't heard anything about Jonás
don't get me wrong, I'm all about squad players
I'm just not about the squad with Diego at the helms, you know?
it's so Argentine to be anti
Menotti and Bielsa, probably the best two trainers we ever had, were nicknamed el Loco
Bilardo and Passarella, both hated
and Basile, probably the worst of the bunch, was universally loved (the first time)
Pekerman also got his fair share of criticism in the run up 2006, but no one could argue with anything about that performance
in a way I wish he'd stayed on

I think we'll see Dátolo too, and I think Masche can make up for his absence on the left

[robin9]

The Greek press is saying Diego is considering Sebastian Leto for a call-up for the next games since Gutierrez got injured. Don't know how much truth is in that but he has perfomed very well in his last games with Panathinaikos.

[west501]

what about Javier 'Kaká' Pastore? :rolleyes:
anyone seen the kid playing in Italia?
don't think Dieguito ever mentioned him..

also in a poll on olé
the current results for who should accompany Messi up front

El Kun Agüero (8881) 14.9%
Carlitos Tevez (21154) 35.6%
Licha López (22814) 38.4%
Diego Milito (3879) 6.5%
Otro (2726) 4.6%

people are down on el Kün and I've always said he's a sub for Messi
most people want the targetman Licha López and Tévez is inflated by the Bosteros

[Arg10]

Sebastian Dominguez earns his first call-up... Here's the full list(with the South American based players).

Goalkeepers:
Juan Pablo Carrizo (Zaragoza/Spain)
Mariano Andujar (Catania/Italy)
Sergio Romero (AZ Alkmaar/Netherlands)

Defenders:
Javier Zanetti (Inter Milan/Italy)
Nicolas Pareja (Espanyol/Spain)
Fabricio Coloccini (Newcastle/England)
Gabriel Heinze (Marseille/France)
Nicolas Burdisso (Inter Milan/Italy)
Sebastian Dominguez (Velez Sarsfield)
Emiliano Papa (Velez Sarsfield)
Nicolas Otamendi (Velez Sarsfield)

Midfielders:
Fernando Gago (Real Madrid/Spain)
Javier Mascherano (Liverpool/England)
Maximiliano Rodriguez (Atletico Madrid/Spain)
Jesus Datolo (Napoli/Italy)
Juan Sebastian Veron (Estudiantes)
Mario Bolatti (Huracan)
Sebastian Battaglia (Boca Juniors)

Forwards:
Carlos Tevez (Manchester City/England)
Lionel Messi (Barcelona/Spain)
Sergio Aguero (Atletico Madrid/Spain)
Diego Milito (Inter Milan/Italy)
Lisandro Lopez (Lyon/France)
Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli/Italy)
Eduardo Salvio (Lanus)

Salvio also gets a call-up. Anyone want to fill me in on Dominguez? I haven't seen anything from him(at all).

As for the poll, I'd much prefer to see Licha up front, rather than Aguero or Tevez. However, I would prefer that Messi gets given kind of a free role and play behind 2 strikers. But not sure if we'll get to see that. Anyone have any idea what the news is in the local media about who might start?

[west501]

Dominguez and Otamendi were the best defensive pair of the tournament but I doubt we'll see them play together and I don't think either of them have the kind of calibre or experience to play Brazil or Paraguay..

Gago has all but lost his place this season, but I do expect him to start
did anyone see Banega, btw :rolleyes: motm against Sevilla and I hope he has a big season and replaces Gago
it was a master class: download here (http://fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136241)
Bolatti has been good, but Banega is more interesting than the two of them combined right now

I actually don't think Datolo will be a straight sub for Jonas on Saturday, but expect to see either Maxi or a third central mid (Veron, Bolatti, or God forbid Battaglia..can you imagine if he starts both qualifiers vs Brazil :mad:)

up front it's pure luxury and we should go with Licha, but probably won't..let's see if Diego risks surprising us

anyone know Brazil's callup?
this is who I hope to see :rolleyes:

Doni
Rafinha-RoqueJunior-Juan-Serginho
ElAno-Gilberto-Anderson-Josue
VagnerLove-LuisFabiano

[Arg10]

FOR FUCKS SAKE...

Diego Maradona has called up Martin FUCKING Palermo for the Brazil match. I don't care if Palermo doesn't play or isn't even on the bench... he shouldn't even be RECOGNIZED by Diego, at all, PERIOD. Along with Palermo, Rolando Schiavi (of Newell's and loaned to Estudiantes when they won the Copa Libertadores) and Rodrigo Brana (Estudiantes) are called up too.

[west501]

my first reaction was that it was a joke because I saw the list, but this is all over the place now and I think it's serious
so shock/laughter has turned into..

v/Tim5nU3DwIE
UTTER HELPLESSNESS AND DESPERATION

note there are shorter videos of this classic moment, but I chose the longer one for dramatic effect
Emperador Palpatine is Julio Grondona..

in all seriousness though, I think Palermo will be there for the training matches
there is no way he will even make the bench
if Diego plays him, I think I will simply not watch Argentina until he is no longer the trainer

[msi2]

God damn... pfff, i dont know if i will handle it any longer.

El Flaco Schiavi, 36y old????

Braña... i suspect he was susgested by Veron. He's decent, but did we need that many destructors in the midfield?????

[Vip]

Battalglia, Milito, Burdisso, Veron and Otamendi have slight injuries. There are players with yellows ... and a game next Wednesday too. And it is too late to bring players from Europe.

That makes it a local choice only. Braña makes sense, he has grown his game and is a pitbull.

Schiavi has the height and the balls for tough games ... aka "finals".

Palermo? Lord, maybe Diego is thinking of a desperate 3rd sub in the 40th, throwing crosse left and right. Or maybe he is thinkng of a tough Paraguay defense, and Martin can certainly handle Caceres in hte air any day...

I think no other player in the local league gives Diego the "header" option. Silvera? Fabbiani? Roly Zarate? Ramirez? Romeo? That is Independiente, River, Velez, Racing, San Lorenzo ...

[west501]

Battalglia, Milito, Burdisso, Veron and Otamendi have slight injuries. There are players with yellows ... and a game next Wednesday too. And it is too late to bring players from Europe.

That makes it a local choice only. Braña makes sense, he has grown his game and is a pitbull.

Schiavi has the height and the balls for tough games ... aka "finals".

Palermo? Lord, maybe Diego is thinking of a desperate 3rd sub in the 40th, throwing crosse left and right. Or maybe he is thinkng of a tough Paraguay defense, and Martin can certainly handle Caceres in hte air any day...

I think no other player in the local league gives Diego the "header" option. Silvera? Fabbiani? Roly Zarate? Ramirez? Romeo? That is Independiente, River, Velez, Racing, San Lorenzo ...

I slept and I got up and I still think they're only there for sparring matches
each of the injured players is replaceable by another player already in the squad
if he wanted a header of the ball he should have called Viatri..
don't even get me started with Schiavi, this is an embarrassment

[PHiN]

anyone know Brazil's callup?
this is who I hope to see :rolleyes:

Doni
Rafinha-RoqueJunior-Juan-Serginho
ElAno-Gilberto-Anderson-Josue
VagnerLove-LuisFabiano

Hey now, Palmeiras has just signed Vagner Love on a loan! :mad:
Haha, but yeah, he's definitely not good enough for the NT anymore.

As for the callup:

Keepers
Júlio César (Inter-ITA)
Vitor (Grêmio-BRA)

Wingbacks
Filipe Luís (La Coruña-SPA - never heard of him.. LB)
Daniel Alves (Barcelona-SPA)
Maicon (Inter-ITA)
André Santos (Fenerbahçe-TUR)

Defenders
Lúcio (Inter-ITA)
Juan (Roma-ITA)
Luisão (Benfica-POR)
Miranda (São Paulo)

Midfielders
Sandro (Internacional - Some U20 kid replacing Josue)
Felipe Melo (Juventus-ITA)
Gilberto Silva (Panathinaikos-GRE)
Elano (Galatasaray-TUR)
Lucas (Liverpool-ENG)
Ramires (Benfica-POR)
Júlio Baptista (Roma-ITA)
Kaká (Real Madrid-SPA)

Strikers
Adriano (Flamengo)
Robinho (Manchester City-ENG)
Luis Fabiano (Sevilla-SPA)
Nilmar (Villarreal-SPA)


I imagine the starting lineup would be

Julio Cesar
Maicon-Juan-Lucio-Andre Santos
Gilberto Silva - Felipe Melo - Ramires- Kaka
Robinho - Luis Fabiano

Maybe swap Maicon/Dani and Ramires/Elano

How Diego from Juventus doesn't get a callup for this team is beyond me.

[Arg10]

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2009/09/01/futbollocal/thumb/palermo.jpg

Anyone want to tell me what the hell Palermo is doing in that training kit? It just doesn't look right.

(4-4-2): Sebastian Romero, Javier Zanetti, Sebastian Dominguez, Rolando Schiavi, Emiliano Papa, Maxi Rodríguez, Fernando Gago, Rodrigo Brana, Eduardo Salvio, Lionel Messi (two goals) and Martin Palermo.

(4-3-3): Juan Pablo Carrizo; Fabricio Coloccini, Nicolás Pareja, Nicolás Otamendi, Nicolás Burdisso; Sebastián Verón, Mario Bolatti, Javier Mascherano; Lisandro López, Carlos Tevez y Sergio Agüero (un gol).

Hahahaha, this is beyond ridiculous.

Romero
Zanetti---Dominguez---Schiavi---Papa
Maxi---Gago---Brana---Salvio
Messi---Palermo

That's seriously the slowest defense I've ever seen, ever. The only creativity coming from midfield is Salvio. Which means that Messi would have to do everything himself.

Carrizo
Coloccini---Pareja---Otamendi---Burdisso
Veron---Bolatti---Mascherano
Lopez---Tevez---Aguero

Just when you thought the defense couldn't get any worse, you get this. A close second when it comes to slowness. Atleast in the first formation there was Salvio in the midfield for the creativity, where would it come from in this one? Up front is actually pretty good.

I know it's just training and whatnot, but I can't believe Diego even TRIED this in training. Accoring to Clarin, it's either Maxi or Datolo(what we expected). Veron and Mascherano in midfield, however Veron has a knock and is doubtful.

[west501]

lineup for Saturday looks to be:

Andujar
Zanetti-Dominguez-Otamendi-Heinze
Maxi-Masche(c)-Veron-Datolo
Messi-Tevez

[msi2]

lineup for Saturday looks to be:

Andujar
Zanetti-Dominguez-Otamendi-Heinze
Maxi-Masche(c)-Veron-Datolo
Messi-Tevez

Putting a kid like Otamendi in a game like this is a huge gamble. Wouldnt be surprised if Brazil attacks on this side of our defense. This is what i would do if i was Dunga. Diego should have called Samuel.

Let's hope we win this game or else...

[west501]

it's also a huge tactical risk to play without a targetman against Brazil
it will be relatively simple for Brazil's army of defenders and defensive midfielders to marginalise Messi and Tevez to the wings
we need Datolo to be big on the left to prevent Tevez from going there and Maxi to double as our centre forward
Veron will be the key
it's a lot to ask for him at 34 to control the match from 3/4 of a very clogged pitch, but his passes will be crucial
Diego figures Dunga will play him like Cruzeiro played Estudiantes
has he stopped to think what will happen if Brazil attack us?

[Arg10]

it's also a huge tactical risk to play without a targetman against Brazil
it will be relatively simple for Brazil's army of defenders and defensive midfielders to marginalise Messi and Tevez to the wings
we need Datolo to be big on the left to prevent Tevez from going there and Maxi to double as our centre forward
Veron will be the key
it's a lot to ask for him at 34 to control the match from 3/4 of a very clogged pitch, but his passes will be crucial
Diego figures Dunga will play him like Cruzeiro played Estudiantes
has he stopped to think what will happen if Brazil attack us?

That's usually what happens. And you're right, playing without a targetman isn't very good. Diego says we're going and winning, yet he puts out this kind of line-up. Tevez is a workhorse no doubt about it, but his international goalscoring record with the NT blows. Which means Messi will have to do everything. Something I don't understand is why Lopez isn't going to start?! This really makes no sense.

As far as our back-line... it's either going to work out perfectly or we're going to get murdered. As silly and as stupid as this sounds... this match was made(not only for Messi to shine) but for Heinze. If Heinze wants to have the game of his life and actually prove why he should still be wearing the shirt, it's this match. Diego wants our players to play with everything they have and to leave it all on the field? Well against Ecuador(which I think he actually did pretty good) Heinze did just that. We're going to need Heinze's leadership(along with Mascherano) to help the team. It's just that we need him to have a good match, or else we're done for. Dominguez and Otamendi, no real experience, but they do play together every week, so who knows. Zanetti's a warrior and he's been there before, I just hope he doesn't get beat for pace or whatever.

Playing Datolo(like you said) is a huge risk. He's only had 1 international match and he's getting thrown into the lions den on Saturday. Maxi, oh Maxi, Maxi, why do I get the feeling that he's going to do absolutely nothing? We need the Maxi of 2006 who was given the freedom to roam around and essentially become another forward. Veron along with Messi will both have to have the game of their lives. If Veron can play the way he did in the Libertadores final, there's no doubt in my mind we'll score a few.

Watch out for the counter-attacks and for set-pieces. Brazil are great at both and we can't defend both(nor score from set-pieces).

[robin9]

Lisandro has been on fire. He definetely must play some part in the next game.

[west501]

Lisandro has been on fire. He definetely must play some part in the next game.

yes I imagine a really different forward line with him and Higuain
imagine this

Higuain-Veron-D'Alessandro
Messi-Licha

also, I guess we're looking for G*d's other hand :p

http://www.afa.org.ar/images/stories/seleccin_mayor/foto_capilla.jpg

reminds me of the classic Homer Simpson quote, no soy un hombre de plegarias, pero si estas en el cielo, por favor salvame Super Man!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06B7Dz0_XGg) :D

[msi2]

A good article from Pekerman on the issues plaguing our football:

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/Crisis/talento/Argentina/elpepudep/20090904elpepidep_3/Tes

Unfortunately in spanish.

[west501]

thank God Ecuador and Uruguay lost, so now we have Colombia and Ecuador with 20 and Uruguay with 18 fighting for the last two places
either Colombia or Ecuador or both could pass us in the next round
Colombia visit Uruguay and Ecuador visit Bolivia
then Uruguay visit Ecuador and host us while Ecuador finish in Chile and Colombia host Chile then finish in Paraguay

realistically I don't think we can get any points from this round and we may only get one in the next round
we will rely heavily on the other results
is 23 points enough..what about 25? we need to win two of these matches to really guarantee and we better make it the next two, because we all know it's impossible going to Uruguay
with three teams right below us and 3 matches left, it looks like it's going to be very very tight
where do we draw the line with Diego?

[msi2]

Unfortunately expected, Brazil is a much better team than us, what else can you do?

[Arg10]

The Brazil game was just a mess. You would think Diego would have them practice set-pieces during training.

Latest news ahead of the Paraguay match. Tevez is injured and will not play against Paraguay. Maxi and Dominguez might get benched by Diego(according to the local media). Schiavi and Burdisso might start(May God help us), Gago might start for Maxi(though I doubt he'll play on the right) and its either Licha or Aguero in for Tevez. Heinze seems to be on thin ice right now because he singled out Dominguez on Brazil's first goal and I guess Diego didn't like that. Which will probably leave us with...

Andujar
Zanetti---Dominguez---Burdisso---Heinze/Papa
Mascherano---Gago---Datolo
Veron(might be given some free role to roam around)
Messi---Licha/Aguero

Thoughts?

[msi2]

Without Datolo's goal, we would have been beaten 3-0 again...

Man, the anti-messi over there (in Argentina) have a run for their money after his disappointing performance. It begins to be really hard to defend him even though some journalists are still doing the job...

Excellent note from Varsky:

http://www.canchallena.com/1171745-tenemos-un-problema-pero-no-es-messi#lectores

EDIT:

Some titles from newspapers:

How the Argentinian media reacted to defeat against old enemy Brazil

In the hands of God ...

Crítica headline

'Never before have Brazil given Argentina such a lesson in class, effort, tactics and teamwork ...'

Sports daily Olé

'There's not even a Plan A ...'

Página 12 headline

'Messi dreamt of the game of his life, but it was a nightmare ...'

La Nación

'It's not the end of the world. It's not the World Cup, it's one game out of 18 qualifiers. But Brazil are better than us. It's that simple ...'

Television commentator at half-time

[msi2]

Is there a podcast planned on your site Roy or will it be after the game against Paraguay?

[Arg10]

We're going to record one tomorrow(on Tuesday). If you want to be part of it, send me a PM(we do it on Skype) and we'll figure something out. Then we're going to do one after the Paraguay game as well.

----------

Taken from Mundo Albiceleste...

News from Monday afternoon training.

Sergio ROMERO

Javier ZANETTI, Sebastián DOMINGUEZ (OTAMENDI was taken to a clinic and everything indicates he'll be ready to play in Paraguay), Gabriel HEINZE (as a CB) and Emiliano PAPA as LB.

VERON on the right in midfield, the central midfield pairing of MASCHERANO and GAGO and DATOLO on the left.

Up front?

MESSI and AGÜERO.

These 11 players faced another team formed by:

ANDUJAR
COLOCCINI---SCHIAVI---BURDISSO---PAREJA
SALVIO---BOLATTI---BRAÑA---Maxi RODRIGUEZ.
LAVEZZI---PALERMO

Where are Diego MILITO and Lisandro LOPEZ? Who knows!?

----------

I just hope Milito or Lopez start on Wednesday. Diego has to atleast get that right.

[west501]

Varsky is spot about the players not being the problem
I said in the match thread that Diego's new mistake is to blame the players like Basile did
this is the wrong approach
it's true that Messi is the solution, but only if the trainer backs him up with a good team
with the enormous wealth of talent we have to do this I find it hard to believe that we don't have a trainer that can build a solid team behind our new 10

[msi2]

Varsky is spot about the players not being the problem
I said in the match thread that Diego's new mistake is to blame the players like Basile did
this is the wrong approach
it's true that Messi is the solution, but only if the trainer backs him up with a good team
with the enormous wealth of talent we have to do this I find it hard to believe that we don't have a trainer that can build a solid team behind our new 10

Now its too late for that anyway. Its not in 3-4 games you do that.

[west501]

I think a capable new manager, like Bianchi, would be instantly beneficial
he could be hired after the playoff and build a group through friendlies
it's last minute, yes, but we did this to ourselves by appointing two trainers below the level of our national team

while we don't directly rely on other matches yet it doesn't mean I am not looking at them :p:mad:
tomorrow night we should root for a draw between Uruguay and Colombia and for Ecuador to lose to Bolivia
that will leave the standings with us in 4th (regardless of our result), Colombia with 21, Ecuador with 20, Uruguay with 19
if the three home nations win we will be in 4th, Uruguay will have 21, and Colombia with 20
the worst that can happen is that we lose and Colombia and Ecuador pass us, leaving us to rely on other results to have a chance at qualification

[robin9]

Gago i'm reading is in for the next game. I'll be watching that!

[msi2]

LOL nice article:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/08/seleccion/01994603.html

Diego is obviously seen as a responsible, Messi is also charged heavily by supporters (he's a mercenary, he doesnt play like he does at Barcelona because he's not paid uhhhh) . Lots of them wish Heinze and Zanetti to go (they should take example on Ayala as quoted :D:( ). Also, a lot of questions about the absence of Higuain. They want him and more opportunities for Lisandro.

A funny note about the field, it is said in the article that there isnt cold pitch, but only cold players (i suspect that is coming from a lot of bitter River Plate fans after the whole stadium mess)... As you can see, this isnt the big love right now.

[west501]

I'm pretty bitter about this move, but I did not write that in mine :rolleyes:
kind of upset they didn't quote me ;)

[msi2]

LOL nice article:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/08/seleccion/01994603.html

Diego is obviously seen as a responsible, Messi is also charged heavily by supporters (he's a mercenary, he doesnt play like he does at Barcelona because he's not paid uhhhh) . Lots of them wish Heinze and Zanetti to go (they should take example on Ayala as quoted :D:( ). Also, a lot of questions about the absence of Higuain. They want him and more opportunities for Lisandro.

A funny note about the field, it is said in the article that there isnt cold pitch, but only cold players (i suspect that is coming from a lot of bitter River Plate fans after the whole stadium mess)... As you can see, this isnt the big love right now.

Just to rebound on Messi's issue... The kid is too exposed mediatically. There's always an article on him saying how good is he bla-bla-bla, but not saying why is that good and on what conditions. He never played in Argentina and international football isnt too much broadcasted over there.
So people have to understand where this negativity comes from but honestly i think he's also victim (him and not only) of the complete decadence of argentinian football as a whole leading by the cancer that is the AFA (lead to the nomination of Maradona as DT).

I think i posted that article from Pekerman where he's talking about our talent crisis and how our football is doing backwards (in terms of organization) by decades.

[west501]

I think we have more of a coaching crisis..not just Diego, but the fact that none of the other coaches seem to be up to it either
Basile/Brown should have maybe taken over after the Olympics Gold..he got the kids to play well

as for the senior team
confirmed lineup
Romero :mad:
Zanetti-Dominguez:mad:-Heinze-Papa
Gago-Masche(c)-Dátolo
Verón
Messi-Agüero

Diego gives Romero his debut, Dominguez his second match, and Dátolo his third
I could easily imagine a side with 8 changes...mad do we need a win
I don't care how..we could put a wall at the goal line and Dátolo could dive for a penalty kick for all I care
JUST DO IT: WIN

[Arg10]

I think we have more of a coaching crisis..not just Diego, but the fact that none of the other coaches seem to be up to it either
Basile/Brown should have maybe taken over after the Olympics Gold..he got the kids to play well

as for the senior team
confirmed lineup
Romero :mad:
Zanetti-Dominguez:mad:-Heinze-Papa
Gago-Masche(c)-Dátolo
Verón
Messi-Agüero

Diego gives Romero his debut, Dominguez his second match, and Dátolo his third
I could easily imagine a side with 8 changes...mad do we need a win
I don't care how..we could put a wall at the goal line and Dátolo could dive for a penalty kick for all I care
JUST DO IT: WIN

I don't know, I like Romero, but giving him his debut now might be suicidal. If he lets in a few, his confidence will be shot to hell, if he does well, then we might have our undisputed #1 goalkeeper.

Dominguez... for fucks sake. Heinze and Papa? Hahahaha, I'm done with this shitty defence. Datolo, well there's no one else that can play on the left that Diego has called up(anyone want to let Diego know that D'Alessandro is Argentine and can play on the left? Oh and same goes for Gonzalo Rodriguez). Messi and Aguero up front? Diego, it's not rocket science. DON'T START TWO FUCKING MIDGETS UP FRONT!

Oh and I'm with Guest, win. Play ugly, but win. Just fucking win.

[msi2]

Oh boy! Ecuador is winning 3-0 against Bolivia, where we lost 6-1........

[Arg10]

Yeah, Ecuador has just taken over 4th spot. Uruguay vs. Colombia is about to start.

Here's our startling line-up:

Romero
Zanetti---Dominguez/Otamendi---Heinze---Papa
Veron---Mascherano---Gago---Datolo
Messi---Aguero

[msi2]

Each game passing, i have the impression we are playing the worst football ever and i'm telling mysefl, can it go worse? The next following game, it goes worse. But this game against Paraguay Oh My.... :eek::(:(

[Arg10]

The game against Paraguay is up there with the Chile game in terms of worst match we've ever played. Romero was the only bright spot.

Oh and Diego, please quit.

[msi2]

With this kind of play, we cant win against Peru... and we are going to get thrashed against Uruguay. The Paraguay's goal is truly great and that's how we should play, one toque!

[threervana]

No doubt the worst game ever...

But the worse thing is Diego is not gonna give up...

[mosesmalone]

Just a quick question - what's up with Monzon? Is he anywhere near the team? When he had the chance to play with Betis, he was really good - hard tackles, crisp passes, a powerful left foot, and read the game well - even better than at the Olympics. I think he would have been considered the best left back in the Primera last season if Chaparro had played him more.

[west501]

No doubt the worst game ever...

But the worse thing is Diego is not gonna give up...

Diego will never leave this post and time goes on things will only get worse. The biggest problem with Diego is that the coach was always his biggest enemy. The tactics? Boring! The practise? Unecessary! The answer? Himself!
There are those who argue that he was right. But at this point who would say the same about his appointment?
Diego will do nothing..should AFA step in? If they don't I won't be upset if we don't make the Cup. I thought I would more to say but I can't even organize my thoughts...I am very worried that we will miss our first world cup since 1970.

[msi2]

Just a quick question - what's up with Monzon? Is he anywhere near the team? When he had the chance to play with Betis, he was really good - hard tackles, crisp passes, a powerful left foot, and read the game well - even better than at the Olympics. I think he would have been considered the best left back in the Primera last season if Chaparro had played him more.

He returned to Boca, so farhe has played one game since his return.

[msi2]

Finally, ole is finally attacking:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/10/seleccion/01995912.html

[Arg10]

Finally, ole is finally attacking:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/10/seleccion/01995912.html

Was just gonna post that. But it won't change anything. If Diego says he won't quit, then he won't quit. This generation of players is going to suffer(maybe even more-so than the other generations by not making it to the World Cup).

It's a joke, now we just have to pray that Diego actually picks the right players for the next list.

[west501]

too little too late from ole, they celebrated this appointment, decisions, and the return of Martin too bloody hard
canchallena (lanacion's ole) has been more critical
our direct qualification is out of our hands

4. Ecuador 23 pts (Uruguay H, Chile H)
5. Argentina 22 pts (Peru H, Uruguay A)
6. Uruguay 21 pts (Ecuador A, Argentina H)
7. Venezuela 21 pts (Paraguay H, Brazil A)
8. Colombia 20 pts (Chile H, Paraguay A)

Ecuador look poised to qualify directly as they have two home matches, but everyone in Argentina will be watching them play Uruguay. If Ecuador beat Uruguay and Argentina beat last place Peru, Uruguay will be out of contention. But depending on other results they could still take us out in the last match.
I'd say it looks difficult for Venezuela and Colombia, who each play against all but qualified teams. But you have to think they will play very hard against teams that don't have to...
We have to win against Peru to stay alive.

[Mr. Boy]

Well I guess I won't be seeing Leo and co. at the World Cup. :( Not with that crackhead in charge.

[akd]

Mark my words, if Maradona stays as coach we will not go the World Cup. End of.

[robin9]

Think it's 50-50 as things stand now for the 5th position. Lot will depend on the other results cause I can't see Argentina winning both of their last 2 games.

[west501]

here is what I am rooting for:
Argentina beat Peru and Uruguay, Venezuela, and Colombia lose their respective matches :cool:
we would then clinch 5th place and go relaxed into Montevideo :rolleyes:

it's highly unlikely, but it could actually happen!

edit: also, do you remember when he threatened to quit in the first week? now he says he'll never leave..how do we get him as upset as he was in that first week??

[deviant]

here is what I am rooting for:
Argentina beat Peru and Uruguay, Venezuela, and Colombia lose their respective matches :cool:
we would then clinch 5th place and go relaxed into Montevideo :rolleyes:

it's highly unlikely, but it could actually happen!

edit: also, do you remember when he threatened to quit in the first week? now he says he'll never leave..how do we get him as upset as he was in that first week??
But what then? plan for an early exit from South Africa will begin?

[Arg10]

But what then? plan for an early exit from South Africa will begin?

Hopefully by then most of our players will be used to playing with each other. Even then, it won't be enough.

So the latest news from Ole is that Hugo Campagnaro might replace Zanetti at right back?!

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/10/futbolinternacional/01996182.html

My Spanish isn't that good, but did I read that correctly?

[deviant]

Hopefully by then most of our players will be used to playing with each other. Even then, it won't be enough.

So the latest news from Ole is that Hugo Campagnaro might replace Zanetti at right back?!

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/10/futbolinternacional/01996182.html

My Spanish isn't that good, but did I read that correctly?
True but it isnt confirmed yet...its mostly speculation.

[west501]

A lot of noise being made about Diego right now, rumours he will drop European based players etc.
I do not have time to pay attention to that but I am relatively excited if Bilardo can lend a nose (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/11/seleccion/01996864.html) and fix our defensive tactics and overall strategy.

Diego had an obligatory meeting with the one man at AFA who probably looks worse than he does right now, Julio Grondona, the man who appointed him! I remind you that it was understood by all from day 1 that Diego was completely unqualified to be the trainer and that he would have Bilardo as manager and Brown, Batista, and Ruggeri as assistants.

What Diego did, and what most could have predicted, was to isolate himself immediately, using his position of power to marginalise Bilardo and threatening to quit if his teammates from 86 were forced upon him.

So this meeting was hopefully well used to call Diego out for getting himself into this situation. But I doubt Diego will listen to Bilardo at all. He needs to realise he was put in this role to motivate, and that no one can do this like he can. But he needs to be a supplement to a good coach..not the coach. Sure the players deserve responsibility as there is only so much the coach can do, but Diego needs to own up to his own inadequacy as coach. If he does what he is good at and allows other to what they are good at, we could turn this around.

[msi2]

The good news is that Gago's detractors will be happy because he wont be called anymore (such as 95% sure). Heinze is close to get kick the f*** out, but more by Grondona whose has been truly pissed off by him during Paraguay game half-time. The thing is El Gringo is one of the leaders in the vestuaries and Diego considers him as important. Unbelievable...

[robin9]

Why drop Gago ? From what I read he was ok in the last game. It's not his fault that people expect from him to organize the attack. He is a DM ppl!

[akd]

I think Messi should get dropped. As much as I like him as a player (in Barcelona) he pisses me off when he plays for the NT. It is as if he doesn't want to be there, or he is playing out of pure obligation.

[msi2]

I think Messi should get dropped. As much as I like him as a player (in Barcelona) he pisses me off when he plays for the NT. It is as if he doesn't want to be there, or he is playing out of pure obligation.


I agree, more to be benched at the very least, i was very disappointed with his attitude. Just re-watched the game against Paraguay, I can understand you can have a bad game, what i saw was complete desinsterest to the game... which is not acceptable.

EDIT:

ahaha, ole's tone has completely changed over Messi, just looking at the title:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/12/futbolinternacional/01997281.html

[west501]

if Pekerman was still here we would still have a team, probably would have won the Copa America and the Copa Confederaciones and the team would probably look like this:

Carrizo
Zabaleta-Burdisso-Samuel-Monzón
Maxi-Macherano-Cambiasso
Riquelme
Messi-Lisandro

[Arg10]

if Pekerman was still here we would still have a team, probably would have won the Copa America and the Copa Confederaciones and the team would probably look like this:

Carrizo
Zabaleta-Burdisso-Samuel-Monzón
Maxi-Macherano-Cambiasso
Riquelme
Messi-Lisandro

That post just breaks my heart and pretty much sums up how much I miss Pekerman. Riquelme and Mascherano would still be on the team, Aimar would be Riquelme's natural replacement(and not Veron) and chances are Higuain would be getting some minutes as well. The chemistry on the team would be insane. I miss him so much at this point:(

I can't believe we're stuck with Diego... I'm going to go watch Argentina vs. Serbia and Montenegro along with Argentina vs. Mexico after the Barcelona game and drink myself to sleep.:(

[threervana]

Why drop Gago ? From what I read he was ok in the last game. It's not his fault that people expect from him to organize the attack. He is a DM ppl!

Rumor says that Gago follows the gangster in the dressing room HEINZE!

And becasue they have conflict with Higuain, this poor kid never got a call up. Now Heinze will get kicked out, so will Gago, which means that Higuain might finally have a chance. But on the other hand, Diego says he will use more local players, so Palermo and other local forwards might be more possible to be selected.

[threervana]

if Pekerman was still here we would still have a team, probably would have won the Copa America and the Copa Confederaciones and the team would probably look like this:

Carrizo
Zabaleta-Burdisso-Samuel-Monzón
Maxi-Macherano-Cambiasso
Riquelme
Messi-Lisandro

I don't think Jose likes Samuel the much...

The defence line of Jose will be like this if he stayed until now:

Scaloni-Burdisso-Heinze-Cufre:D

[Arg10]

I don't think Jose likes Samuel the much...

The defence line of Jose will be like this if he stayed until now:

Scaloni-Burdisso-Heinze-Cufre:D

Scaloni---Ayala---Heinze---Sorin

It worked vs. Mexico, didn't it? I'm more than willing to take that back-line over the back-line we have now.

And about your earlier post, you might be right. Higuain never saw eye to eye with Gago and Heinze, but with both of them out of the team, it's a possibility. A real slim one, but still a posibility.

[msi2]

I miss the 2005/2007 kits... Cant wait to see if Adidas will improve from the current ones, which are horrible.

[Arg10]

I miss the 2005/2007 kits... Cant wait to see if Adidas will improve from the current ones, which are horrible.

I've always loved those kits(the away one is pretty classy as well, I own both).

Now to some latest news, according to Ole these are the players that the AFA want for the Peru/Uruguay matches...

Garay, Fazio, Clemente Rodriguez, Cellay, Campagnaro, D'Alessandro, Guinazu, Veron, Otamendi, Brana, Bolatti, Salvio, Cubero and Blanco

Veron is out for both matches, but I wouldn't mind D'Alessandro. Actually, I'd love him at this point(always been a fan of his). Garay and Fazio are a plus in my book.

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/12/seleccion/01997295.html

Thats the link to the article. Oh and the list is supposed to come out on September 25.

[west501]

Now to some latest news, according to Ole these are the players that the AFA want for the Peru/Uruguay matches...

Garay, Fazio, Clemente Rodriguez, Cellay, Campagnaro, D'Alessandro, Guinazu, Veron, Otamendi, Brana, Bolatti, Salvio, Cubero and Blanco

Veron is out for both matches, but I wouldn't mind D'Alessandro. Actually, I'd love him at this point(always been a fan of his). Garay and Fazio are a plus in my book.

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/12/seleccion/01997295.html

Thats the link to the article. Oh and the list is supposed to come out on September 25.


add Banega to the list

v/RAKGPYRA0S8

Garay and Fazio are strong in the air and decent going forward as well

Carrizo
Zanetti-Demichelis-Garay-Clemente
Maxi-Masche-Banega
Messi-D'Alessandro
Lisandro

think of a 4-5-1 like Rafa Benitez that is flexible going up the flanks with an area striker up front
we need to load the midfield and use the flanks

[msi2]

Have you seen Perotti's goal for Sevilla?

You should take a look.

[threervana]

add Banega to the list

v/RAKGPYRA0S8

Garay and Fazio are strong in the air and decent going forward as well

Carrizo
Zanetti-Demichelis-Garay-Clemente
Maxi-Masche-Banega
Messi-D'Alessandro
Lisandro

think of a 4-5-1 like Rafa Benitez that is flexible going up the flanks with an area striker up front
we need to load the midfield and use the flanks


Rumors say that Zanetti, Maxi & Lisandro would get kicked out as well....

Will be nce to see some tall kids like Garay & Fazio though they are not experienced. But we really need to add some height to our defence.

I'll be more than happy to see Clemente back as IMHO He is the closest one to Juampi. But I really doubt that Campagnaro could replace Pupi...Anyone watch his games???

Obviously, the most important one is D'Alessadro as we really need
experienced engache to direct this broken ship NOW!

As Veron won't make it and Riquelme is uncertain, D'Alessadro needs to be called. BTW,CALL PABLO AIMAR BACK.:cool: as well.

[Arg10]

So Diego flew to Europe and met some players to tell them they won't be part of the team anymore. Here's the list.

Gabriel Heinze, Fernando Gago, Javier Zanetti, Maxi Rodriguez, Lisandro Lopez, Diego Milito

Heinze, Gago and Maxi I can understand. Zanetti has been our best D man in the last 2 matches, yet he gets cut. Lopez and Milito? Wow, guess we'll see Palermo and Kempes or maybe even Valdano. Who knows, maybe this opens the door for Higuain?

[Arg10]

Ayala is willing to come out of retirement for the last 2 matches to try and help us get to the World Cup:o

http://www.infobae.com/contenidos/472351-100909-0-Ayala-el-ex-capit%C3%A1n-quiere-volver-la-Selecci%C3%B3n

With this shitty defence that we have and with Diego's selections, I'm willing to take Ayala back. Fuck it, I'd welcome Ayala back with open arms. Ayala>Anyone who's played in our back line lately not named Zanetti.

Edit: Just look at the fire in his eyes in that picture(in the article). We need that heart and leadership so badly.

[west501]

I'm against this, but will expand on why when I collect my thoughts..basically we need a new coach not old players

remember Paraguay 2006, based on the brilliant but aged legends Gamarra, Acuna, and Cardozo
we have Zanetti as the only 30something who really deserves to start because he is the best for his position and still functions as he did a decade ago
Veron is also functioning quite well, but I still think he should be a squad player
Ayala was already going down hill a little bit towards the end and I feel recalling him would be adding a 3rd player that is too old
don't get me started on Palermo/Schiavi..if they get another callup I'll be very upset

[akd]

I heard rumours Ortega is going to get called back against Ghana! Is Maradona doing lines of coke again? geeez...

Why is Lisandro being sacked? He hasn't even had a chance to perform!

I would personally drop Messi and Kun for the next couple of matches, or at least put them on the bench until they understand what it means to play for our NT.

Bring Ayala back?? Are we reviving dead corpses?

[deviant]

Police nab Maradona’s earrings to pay tax bill

ROME (AP)—Italian police didn’t want the shirt off Diego Maradona’s back— just his earrings.
Tax authorities visited the Argentina coach at an Alpine resort on Friday and took away a pair of earrings as part payment of the former Napoli star’s unpaid tax bill.

The Bolzano Provincial Tax Police said Maradona handed over the pair of earrings, worth $5,900. The Italian news agency ANSA said the tax bill stands at about $54 million.
Tax police in the capital of the South Tyrol declined to describe the earrings taken from the Grand Hotel Palace in Merano. An Italian television network reported that they contained diamonds.
Police did not say whether Maradona was wearing them when it was time to pay up.
Three years ago, tax police took two Rolex watches during his appearance at a news conference and benefit in a Naples suburb.
The 48-year-old Maradona captained Argentina to the 1986 World Cup title, and had some stellar seasons for Napoli from 1984 to 1991. He helped the club win its two Serie A championships, the UEFA Cup and the Italian Cup.
He was kicked out of the 1994 World Cup and banned for 15 months for failing a doping test for stimulants. He was near death on a respirator five years ago after a heart attack attributed to a cocaine overdose.
With two qualifying games remaining next month, Argentina is in danger of missing its first World Cup since 1970, and Maradona is taking much of the blame.

[msi2]

I heard rumours Ortega is going to get called back against Ghana! Is Maradona doing lines of coke again? geeez...

Why is Lisandro being sacked? He hasn't even had a chance to perform!

I would personally drop Messi and Kun for the next couple of matches, or at least put them on the bench until they understand what it means to play for our NT.

Bring Ayala back?? Are we reviving dead corpses?

Uf, what a disaster...
I agree about Messi and Aguero. I always thought it was a mistake to give keys of the NT to pibes of 21y old, now it becomes more and more apparent they are not up yet to support the NT on their shoulders. Bring the not-so old players after all players like Saviola, Aimar or D'Alessandro...

[deviant]

Ortega wtf he was terrible today vs Lanus.........

[west501]

I can only think that el Burrito will be there for sparring matches only...but that's what I said about Palermo :mad:
I think Diego deems Licha as surplus because he never intneded on giving him a chance and thinks correctly that it makes him look bad to have a star on the bench
for this reason I start to doubt he will call el Pipita and think we may see a squad that takes away and does not add, but most importantly does not grow from the experience Diego is putting them through

edit: Banega continues his brilliant start for Valencia..surely he deserves the callup :eek:

[deviant]

------------Carrizo
Zanetti-Demichelis-Ayala-Clemente
---------Masche-Banega---------
Riquelme-----------------Lucho
-----------Messi---------------
------------------Milito--------

Subs: Higuain, Aguero, Burdisso, Maxi, Cambiasso

best possible scenario in my opinion

[west501]

worst possible scenario

Abbondanzieri
Diaz-Schiavi-Dominguez-Papa
Gago-Battaglia
Ortega-Jonas
Palermo-Sand

[Arg10]

------------Carrizo
Zanetti-Demichelis-Ayala-Clemente
---------Masche-Banega---------
Riquelme-----------------Lucho
-----------Messi---------------
------------------Milito--------

Subs: Higuain, Aguero, Burdisso, Maxi, Cambiasso

best possible scenario in my opinion

Switch Ayala with Gonzalo Rodriguez(why is it that he's always overlooked by our coaches?!) On the left, either Clemente or Insua. Lucho is done with us, I'd put in Aimar. Slot in Cambiasso and Banega for Riquelme(I'm using the players available).

Zanetti-Demichelis-Gonzalo-Clemente/Insua
---------Masche-Cambiasso---------
Banega-----------------Aimar
-----------Messi---------------
------------------Milito--------

Still fantastic. And guest, that might be our line-up against Ghana on September 30(local players only):o:( Just take Gago and Jonas out.

[west501]

for those of you following the national tournament, Basile has just resigned from Boca after a dismal start
that's the most surprising thing about continuosly calling Battaglia and now Palermo is that besides having very little to offer, they are also on a poorly coached misfiring team :mad:
Pipo Gorosito is also facing the music after yet another loss as well
ironically our failure at the national team level mirrors the troubles of our biggest clubs and for this reason I suggest you read Vickery's latest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2009/09/x.html)blog post
there may yet be much more trouble ahead

[WengersArmy]

Hey guys, is there anyway to get the Apertura in HD in the United States? Fox Soccer Channel shows some matches once in awhile but nothing in HD. Thanks!

[msi2]

for those of you following the national tournament, Basile has just resigned from Boca after a dismal start
that's the most surprising thing about continuosly calling Battaglia and now Palermo is that besides having very little to offer, they are also on a poorly coached misfiring team :mad:
Pipo Gorosito is also facing the music after yet another loss as well
ironically our failure at the national team level mirrors the troubles of our biggest clubs and for this reason I suggest you read Vickery's latest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2009/09/x.html)blog post
there may yet be much more trouble ahead

We are in the shiitee...

[west501]

Hey guys, is there anyway to get the Apertura in HD in the United States? Fox Soccer Channel shows some matches once in awhile but nothing in HD. Thanks!

HD does not exist in Argentina jajaja :(

[WengersArmy]

HD does not exist in Argentina jajaja :(

Are you joking? Why? There's 40 million people in Argentina. Boca has one of the largest followings in the world. The support is the best in the world in the stands.

Is ALL the money going to Diego's coke habit?

[west501]

I don't know..maybe you're right :o:mad:
there is a lot of politics behind it, as Cristina wants to adopt the Brazilian/Japanese method of distribution but wants to nationalise production
a lot of people have them and pay for digital television packages that transmit some channels (movies mostly) but so far nothing is standard, everything is expensive, and most consumers think that filling the 16:9 screen is actually HD :o:p
maybe in the next year or so they will start to film and broadcast futbol in HD

[Arg10]

Anyone else reading the rumors(was posted on Clarin this morning) that Higuain is going to get called-up? I really want to see how well he does(if he does well) with the team.

[west501]

I think they are trying to influence the callup but even if el Pipita is called he will be way behind the Tévez and Agüero non-goal scoring monopoly

more exciting from that article (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/09/23/deportes/d-02004540.htm) is that we will be back at home (in River) against Peru :cool::eek:

[Arg10]

List to face Ghana on September 30.

Goalkeepers:
Diego POZO (Colón de Santa Fe)
Cristian CAMPESTRINI (Arsenal de Sarandí)

Defenders:
Matías CARUZZO (Argentinos Juniors)
Ignacio CANUTO (Argentinos Juniors)
Rolando SCHIAVI (Newell´s)
Juan Manuel INSAURRALDE (Newell´s)
Cristian VILLAGRA (River)
Fabián MONZÓN (Boca)

Midfielders:
Rodrigo BRAÑA (Estudiantes LP)
Enzo PÉREZ (Estudiantes LP)
Leonel VANGIONI (Newell´s)
Federico INSÚA (Boca)
Jesús MÉNDEZ (Rosario Central)
Mario BOLATTI (Huracán)

Forwards:
Gabriel HAUCHE (Argentinos)
Martín PALERMO (Boca)
Ariel ORTEGA (River)
Luis RODRÍGUEZ (Atlético Tucumán)
Esteban FUERTES (Colón de Santa Fe)


:eek::( What if he performs well against Ghana(who won't have their A team, will Diego call him-up for Peru/Uruguay?)

[west501]

don't even think of suggesting a player to me
-Diego

oh! but it's not players I'm suggesting :p
list comes out today, no?

[robin9]

Ortega....I lol'ed when i first saw that one. Bring Batistuta back!

[Arg10]

don't even think of suggesting a player to me
-Diego

oh! but it's not players I'm suggesting :p
list comes out today, no?

Yeah list comes out today. You're right, Diego did say don't suggest a player to me. He also said something like "I don't listen to Grondona, Bilardo or anyone else"(or something to that affect).

[west501]

Ortega....I lol'ed when i first saw that one. Bring Batistuta back!

screw Lisandro, bring back el Piojo Lopez! :o

Yeah list comes out today. You're right, Diego did say don't suggest a player to me. He also said something like "I don't listen to Grondona, Bilardo or anyone else"(or something to that affect).

man I'm tired of referring to my sig :(

edit: there is a great interview (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/24/seleccion/02005258.html) with the legendary Daniel Passarella floating about on Ole..he sees things with the kind of clarity that I like

[msi2]

Still cant believe we are not in the youth WC...

[robin9]

Goalkeepers: Diego Romero (AZ Alkmaar) and Mariano Andujar (Catania)
Defenders: Fabricio Coloccini (Newcastle), Nicolas Pareja (Espanyol), Pablo Zabaleta (Manchester City), Emiliano Insua (Liverpool) and Gabriel Heinze (Marseille)
Midfielders: Jonas Gutierrez (Newcastle), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool), Angel Di Maria (Benfica), Pablo Aimar (Benfica) and Luis Gonzalez (Marseille)
Strikers: Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli), Carlos Tevez (Manchester City), Diego Milito (Inter Milan), Sergio Agüero (Atletico Madrid) and Gonzalo Higuain (Real Madrid)

5 defenders, 5 mildfielders and 6 (!) strikers. Higuain gets called now having played few games and being very average while he didn't get called last season when he was awesome. Surrealism continues :D

[west501]

I'm happy for Pablito and somehow always figured hed make it back into the squad
I feel if there is any player who could make an immediate impact it would a playmaker like him
I am very upset that he has not called Carrizo, who is clearly the best option in goal and Zanetti must have had some kind of internal problem as he was amongst the only ones trying in the last few matches..
I would like to see
Romero
Zabaleta-Pareja-Heinze-Insúa
Lucho-Masche(c)-Di María
Messi-Pablito
Higuaín

I expect to see Otamendi in the defence and Jonás in midfield
up front will be Messi and Agüero of course
does Diego call up D'Alessandro??

also, Arg10, Diego seems to have looked at your sig...I wonder if he's seen mine :p

[deviant]

I knew Lucho would be called up whoever said hes done for el albiceleste is sadly mistaken

[threervana]

I exactly would like see what you wanna see, guest501!
Romero
Zabaleta-Pareja/Coloccini-Heinze-Insúa
Lucho/Jonas-Masche(c)-Di María/Jonas
Pablito
Messi-Higuaín/Milito

Looks perfect for the coming two games and might solve a lot of problems we've encounted, like big striker, playmaker and wing backs~

[west501]

honestly I don't care who plays as long as we win and qualify!

[Arg10]

I'm happy for Pablito and somehow always figured hed make it back into the squad
I feel if there is any player who could make an immediate impact it would a playmaker like him
I am very upset that he has not called Carrizo, who is clearly the best option in goal and Zanetti must have had some kind of internal problem as he was amongst the only ones trying in the last few matches..
I would like to see
Romero
Zabaleta-Pareja-Heinze-Insúa
Lucho-Masche(c)-Di María
Messi-Pablito
Higuaín

I expect to see Otamendi in the defence and Jonás in midfield
up front will be Messi and Agüero of course
does Diego call up D'Alessandro??

also, Arg10, Diego seems to have looked at your sig...I wonder if he's seen mine :p

Sure looks like it. Time to change it and put "The Official get Diego and Grondona out campaign". Yet, I doubt that'll happen. As for yours, he's probably seen it but doesn't care since its negative towards him.

VERY happy to see Pablito back, I've always been a fan. Higuain as well, but I'm not sure if he'll get any minutes. But I'm more satisfied with this list than previous ones(of course it would of been better without Heinze and with Zanetti).

[Arg10]

Good news, Coloccini is injured and Diego has called-up Martin Demichelis to replace him. Also, Ortega is injured and won't play versus Ghana which means the chances of seeing him with us in the Qualifiers are 0.

Also, I'd like a 4-3-1-2, though I'd more than welcome a 4-3-2-1(like guest posted).

Zabaleta-Micho-Pareja-Insua
Lucho-Mascherano-Di Maria
Aimar
Messi-Higuain

I'm dying to see Aimar and Messi on the pitch together again. Hopefully for the full 90 minutes. It sucks that Zanetti got excluded because Zabaleta hasn't been getting any minutes for Manchester City and we could use his experience right now(he was the only one trying against Brazil and Paraguay).

[west501]

I don't take any news about the seleccion as good news until we are qualified ;)
this news is actually worrying to me because Micho has not yet come back from surgery and playing him at 50% is a huge risk to his health and to our defence
I like your lineup but assume we will see a local in central defence and midfield along with Jonas and Aguero..and possibly Tevez instead of Aimar :eek::eek:
I am very worried about the match with Peru, and also think we will likely lose or scoreless draw in the friendly in Cordoba with Ghana, which will hopefull be the end of Palermo (edit: who will be captain :eek::eek::eek:) for the love of God
if we lose 0-5 to Ghana could Diego get the sack :rolleyes:

[west501]

...I am relatively excited if Bilardo can lend a nose (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/09/11/seleccion/01996864.html) and fix our defensive tactics and overall strategy.

Diego had an obligatory meeting with the one man at AFA who probably looks worse than he does right now, Julio Grondona, the man who appointed him! ...this meeting was hopefully well used to call Diego out for getting himself into this situation. But I doubt Diego will listen to Bilardo at all (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/wikiality/images/d/d1/ICALLEDIT.gif).

hate to say I told you so!
I apologise for being such a hater, but I hate the situation..you know I love Diego like a dysfunctional family member
it's as if he is following a script, cartoonish, Buster Keaton, los hermanos Marx, los tres chiflados, of how not to act in a pressured situation

[Arg10]

The domestic league list has been released. No Papa!

Goalkeeper:
Diego POZO (Colon de Santa Fe)

Defenders:
Rolando SCHIAVI (Newell's Old Boys),
Nicolas OTAMENDI (Velez Sarsfield),
Fabian MONZON (Boca Juniors)

Midfielders:
Mario BOLATTI (Huracan),
Enzo PEREZ (Estudiantes),
Juan Sebastian VERON (Estudiantes),
Federico INSUA (Boca Juniors)

Forward:
Martin PALERMO (Boca Juniors)

As of right now, Higuain's spot on the team as a starter is far from secured, especially after Palermo's 2 goals after a shitty Ghana team and his header from this past weekend.

[msi2]

To be honest, seeing Higuain current form, i'm not sure it's all bad news... really.

[threervana]

Like your sig again, Arg10. But Hernan Crespo is not doing TOO well in Genoa so now there is no point Diego would bring him back.

I would like to see Messi pair up Palermo in the front with Aimar behind them in the following games:) And Higuain could sub Palermo in the second halves.

[west501]

did you see that Di María is starring at Benfica?
his recission clause is now huge!
I think the following looks like world cup team lineup

Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Pareja-Insúa
Lucho-Masche(c)-Di María
Messi-Aimar
Higuaín

but at this point it's downright embarrassing to have coach who is considering Palermo, one of the biggest flops in international football history, for the starting role as targetman (at 36 no less)

happy to see Monzón in there over Papa and no Battaglia
we'll probably see Jonás in there but I honestly don't care who plays as long as we win and Uruguay draw ;)

[Arg10]

did you see that Di María is starring at Benfica?
his recission clause is now huge!
I think the following looks like world cup team lineup

Carrizo
Zanetti-Micho-Pareja-Insúa
Lucho-Masche(c)-Di María
Messi-Aimar
Higuaín

but at this point it's downright embarrassing to have coach who is considering Palermo, one of the biggest flops in international football history, for the starting role as targetman (at 36 no less)

happy to see Monzón in there over Papa and no Battaglia
we'll probably see Jonás in there but I honestly don't care who plays as long as we win and Uruguay draw ;)

That line-up looks pretty freaking good. I'd love to see that against Peru, it's just you'd have to replace Zanetti with Zabaleta.

Oh and considering Palermo, surely there's someone else in South America who's better than him? How's Maxi Lopez doing.:eek::D:(

[msi2]

Still bemused at Lucho being back... Let's hope he will finally deliver something worth.

[threervana]

Possible lineup as we expected:cool:

Romero

Zabaleta Schiavi Heinze/Otamendi Insua/Heinze

Jonas Masche Di Maria

Aimar

Messi Palermo/Higuain

[west501]

Possible lineup as we expected:cool:

Romero

Zabaleta Schiavi Heinze/Otamendi Insua/Heinze

Jonas Masche Di Maria

Aimar

Messi Palermo/Higuain

source?
I'm afraid Palermo will start and Aguero will be used as a sub over Higuain :(

[Arg10]

source?
I'm afraid Palermo will start and Aguero will be used as a sub over Higuain :(

Nah. I really think the starting job is between Palermo(I can't believe I just said that) and Higuain. Aguero is behind Higuain in the pecking order. I think Diego has had enough of his son in law. Hopefully Higuain starts though.

And msi2, Lucho has had more than enough chances. Bolivia was the last straw for me. Who knows, he might do well though(if he plays).

[threervana]

source?
I'm afraid Palermo will start and Aguero will be used as a sub over Higuain :(

unofficial souce like telam:)

http://videosfla.uigc.net/2009/10/05/seleHV.flv

Palermo is 100% a starter...

Now Zabaleta is injuried...Please call Pupi back!

[west501]

Palermo is 100% a starter...



noooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (http://colbertnooo.ytmnd.com/)

[Arg10]

Things just go from bad to worse for us don't they? Frst the exclusion of Zanetti and the inclusion of Palermo, now Zabaleta injured and Palermo to start. How bad is Zabaleta's injury?

In short, I echo guest's thoughts.

[west501]

In short, I echo guest's thoughts.

I am no longer a guest :p

[Arg10]

I am no longer a guest :p

hahaha. I saw the name I was like :confused: Then I realised you changed it.

So Zabaleta is injured and we have no natural RB replacement. Smart by Diego, really smart leaving Pupi out. Anyways, in training it was Messi and Palermo up front with Aimar behind them as the playmaker. According to reports, Aimar and Messi played really well together. Glad to hear that.

Maradona threatens to quit after the WCQ. I think whether we qualify or not, he's gone. Hopefully we qualify for 2010 and he quits.

[threervana]

From the training, it seems Jonas or Pareja will play as RB. IMO, Jonas might be a good choice.

[west501]

hahaha. I saw the name I was like :confused: Then I realised you changed it.



the joke is that in Spanish the pronunciation is exactly the same ;)

From the training, it seems Jonas or Pareja will play as RB. IMO, Jonas might be a good choice.

you forgot to mention that el Pipita Higuaín was up front
I think Diego must be trying to get Jonás as another son in law or something
I don't want to see him at right back..PUPI :(

Romero
Jonás-Schiavi:eek:-Heinze-Insúa
Pérez-Masche(c)-Di María
Aimar
Messi-Higuaín

[Arg10]

the joke is that in Spanish the pronunciation is exactly the same ;)
Ah, I see.


you forgot to mention that el Pipita Higuaín was up front
I think Diego must be trying to get Jonás as another son in law or something
I don't want to see him at right back..PUPI :(

Romero
Jonás-Schiavi:eek:-Heinze-Insúa
Pérez-Masche(c)-Di María
Aimar
Messi-Higuaín

From the midfield and up, it looks pretty good. But that's one of the shittiest backlines I've seen in a while. Schiavi? HEINZE?! Gutierrez as an RB? Where's Pupi, indeed:( Excited to see Insua, though I'm a bit worried he might be caught out of position. The kid loves to get forward and Di Maria doesn't offer much when tracking back so if Insua gets caught out of position... We'll need Heinze to cover for him.:eek: Still, I think we'll get through Peru pretty easily. If we do go with that line-up, the attack will be too much for Peru.

Edit: Thought I would post this.
http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2009/10/possible-scenarios.html

Some possible scenario's as to what could happen on Saturday.

[gidscribib]

Hi there, Would a new one like me be welcome here?
Thanks so much in deed.
Thank you, this is good news for other visitors

[Arg10]

Hi there, Would a new one like me be welcome here?
Thanks so much in deed.
Thank you, this is good news for other visitors

Yeah, sure. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to post here.

So here's what looks to be the confirmed line-up.

Romero
Gutierrez-Schiavi-Heinze-Insua
Perez-Mascherano-Di Maria
Aimar
Messi-Higuain

Gotta admit, the thought of Schiavi-Heinze scares the shit out of me. But it should do versus Peru.

[msi2]

If we cant beat this Peru at home, we dont deserve to be in the WC next year, as simple as that.

[robin9]

Messi and Higuain up front? Orgasmic for La Liga fans!

[west501]

I hope that it creates a call for a partnership so Barça go for el Pipita or Real go for Messi :rolleyes:
actually the best would be if they team up with Aimar and all three of them come home to River :o

[Vip]

I hope that it creates a call for a partnership so Barça go for el Pipita or Real go for Messi :rolleyes:
actually the best would be if they team up with Aimar and all three of them come home to River :o

As long as you don't want Tevez and Palemro too! :rolleyes:




:D


.

[threervana]

Aimar+Messi+Higuain VS Riquelme+Tevez+Palermo~

Interesting~

[west501]

Aimar+Messi+Higuain VS Riquelme+Tevez+Palermo~

Interesting~

more interesting
Aimar+Messi+Higuaín VS 10 defensores Peruanos :eek:

[Arg10]

more interesting
Aimar+Messi+Higuaín VS 10 defensores Peruanos :eek:

Yeah, I can see that happening. Someone who I think will really help us is Di Maria. For me, he's been someone that we've missed since he got that red card against Bolivia. His pace, his passes and his crosses are really good. Plus, he plays week in and week out with Aimar, so there has to be some sort of chemistry between them. Peru might have too much to cope with when it comes to Aimar, Messi, Higuain that it might open things up for Di Maria.

[msi2]

The peruvians doesnt care, they dont have to play, they are already eliminated, no pressure whatsoever. On the other hand, for us, omg...

Palermo is not my thing, but i think Diego should have gone with him instead of Higuain... but we will see.

[Arg10]

The peruvians doesnt care, they dont have to play, they are already eliminated, no pressure whatsoever. On the other hand, for us, omg...

Palermo is not my thing, but i think Diego should have gone with him instead of Higuain... but we will see.

Palermo, Higuain, at this point I don't care. I just want us to qualify for the 2010 World Cup. I'm a nervous wreck right now.

[west501]

I am also nervous because we are playing with an inexperienced side that has no coach
I am really rooting for the players here..hoping that Aimar, Di María, and el Pipita can make a place for themselves by themselves
Aimar in particular, after being a promising youngster in 02 and a sub in 06, will be playing for his rightful place in South Africa
vamos Pablito

[west501]

what a crazy finish, that will certainly be a remembered goal particularly if we make the world cup
we can only guarantee our spot with another win (same for Uruguay)
it will be a war on Wednesday :eek:

[threervana]

what a crazy finish, that will certainly be a remembered goal particularly if we make the world cup
we can only guarantee our spot with another win (same for Uruguay)
it will be a war on Wednesday :eek:

We guarantee our spot for the extra two games with a draw....

[msi2]

I have... yet to see the game. Fell asleep before the beginning of the game, dont ask why.... :o

Looks like i missed a potential heart-attack.

[Arg10]

So umm, here's the rumored line-up against Uruguay.

Romero

Otamendi-Schiavi-Demichelis-Heinze

Mascherano-Veron-Brana-Gutierrez

Messi-Higuain

All I have to say is... COME ON CHILE!

[robin9]

Who is "Brana" ?

Tomorrow's game is gonna be WAR! It's been like 40 years till the last time Argentina won Uruguay away.

[west501]

Rodrigo Braña is Veron's partner in the centre of Estudiantes midfield..he's essentially the engine that makes up for Veron's relative lack of mobility
they make an excellent pairing, but I'm worried about our flanks because Uruguay have excellent wide players...

confirmed (http://www.canchallena.com/1185850-con-equipo-confirmado-el-seleccionado-viaja-a-montevideo-en-busca-de-la-clasificacion) lineup:

Romero
Otamendi-Schiavi-Demichelis-Heinze
Gutierrez-Masche-Veron-Di Maria
Messi-Pipita

[threervana]

Veron will replace Aimar and Otamendi will replace Perez for the No.4 spot, moving Jonas to his natural midfield position. Hope these changes will work for the most important game this year. Aimar should get some minutes if the situation doesn't look good...

[chauchey]

I can't believe these coaches are willing to take people that can't hold a spot on their own merrits, but need to be accompanied by someone who is able to run. Unreal.

1) Higuain needs to play.
2) We need a playmaker, and I don't consider Veron one so that means that Aimar needs to start. Glad to se Di Maria in the midfield and as long as he doesn't shoot but sticks to passing the ball he should be a difference maker for us.
3) Is it just me or does that defence look a bit...uncertain? We're really missing Gabby Milito is what we're missing. :( Burdisso still needs to play. He provides grit and a workman like attitude. We need that.

Key's to winning the match
1) Di Maria's ability to pass accurately into coverage.
2) Messi's ability to draw defenders, opening up space for other forwards
3) Romero: Because you know that defence is going to give up chances.

I'll be watching this one on replay, but I'm really looking forward to it! :D Good luck boys!

[robin9]

I think they key for this game will be how effective Argentina will be. I really don't think they will create many chances, so in the 3-4 that will come up, they will need to score. Higuain has never been very lethal, but when things get tough he usually rises to the challenge.

[west501]

http://www.canchallena.com/anexos/fotos/91/1072991.jpg

good article on what's next for Diego and the Seleccion (http://www.canchallena.com/1186619-objetivo-mundial-las-fechas-que-marcan-el-futuro-del-seleccionado)

some big days and big games coming in less than 2 months!
I honestly cannot believe that another world cup is upon us
it makes me feel old :o

[Arg10]

So it seems like the match versus Nigeria on November 18 is now replaced? Instead we'll face Serbia? It hasn't been 100% confirmed, but it looks that way. Also(like in the link you posted guest), it looks like we will indeed be facing Israel and it's most likely going to be the last match before the World Cup.

[threervana]

So it seems like the match versus Nigeria on November 18 is now replaced? Instead we'll face Serbia? It hasn't been 100% confirmed, but it looks that way. Also(like in the link you posted guest), it looks like we will indeed be facing Israel and it's most likely going to be the last match before the World Cup.

Where is resource, mate??

I wanted to see the match versus Nigeria..

[west501]

I agree and think a match with an African national team will be important as I see at least 3 making it to the quarterfinals and maybe one to the semifinals
what of Diego's touchline ban? I think friendlies do count, no?
if so I hope FIFA consider banning him for 20 matches for attacking the dignity of sport :(

[Arg10]

Where is resource, mate??

I wanted to see the match versus Nigeria..

Apparently it was reported on TV in Argentina. Personally, I'm with guest. I would prefer an African nation.

[cisco]

I don't get this anti-Palermo bias of you guys.
I've been watching football for a good 20 years now, and i am convinced - what the Argentinian NT really needs to do (at least try) on the biggest stage, is to use a big tall physically strong central forward. The Jan Koller type of guy. (not to mention Palermo has way better goalscoring talent than Koller imo..)

Using the "small technique Maradona #2 guy", aka Saviola, Tevez, Aguero, Crespo, etc is very attracting and mouthwatering for La Liga and Serie A fans, but for me, its the same old 1998-, 2002- and 2006- fluff over and over again.

You don't need another technique-magician alongside Messi, Aimar, Di Maria and Mascherano. In the last mile of the pitch, you need a goalscoring experience, someone to be able to head balls in (hard to achieve from small guys like most of your midfielders).


Palermo is being crucified for those 3 penalty misses, but even after this happened he came back in the next game of that copa and scored against Uruguay. A strong character cannot do that. I personally saw Palermo score very confident penalty against AC Milan at Allianz Arena in the summer friendly torunament (Boca won and finished third).

You cannot deny that Palermo is an established goalscorer. He will soon be the best Boca goalscorer of all times. Plus who ripped Madrid appart back in 2001, when Real were flying high and hailed by the media for being Galactico etc etc..?!?

Palermo is a guy who had strange carrier, with many many ups and maybe 1-2 downs. And i am glad he got his chance back, to do something he could have done earlier, if it was not for the misfortune that happened to him once. But he got his chance due to the crazy (crazy. not undeserved, but simply crazy) decision of Maradona to call him up. Very well done, Diego. Some miracles happen only when being called for...

[west501]

for me the shirt of Argentina is too big for him, it's that simple

[cisco]

ha! then who fits the size of the shirt then?

its maybe the fact you support River the reason for your bias on Palermo.
Honestly, the shirt was too small for him, when he tried to take it off after the goal vs Peru ;)

[west501]

I think it's a difficult role to fill..there was a new Batistuta and his name was Crespo
each of them deserved a world cup, but now we can't find anyone for the role
Palermo at 36 is 1/20 of what Crespo was, so why not just use Crespo who is younger, fitter, and still at least 10x better than Palermo
I actually think both of them are too old to feature in South Africa 2010 and that if we'd had a real coach over the last 3 years, we'd have a formidable pair up front at this point
the fact that we don't have a coach is no excuse for calling up one of the worst players in the history of our national team
Cavenaghi, Lisando, Zárate, Tévez, Agüero, Lavezzi, Messi..there is a pair in there somewhere with good coaching

I refuse the 'he goes for River' argument
if a player is good enough (Riquelme, Tévez, Monzón, Mouche, E.Insúa etc) I want him
if a player is not good enough (Abbondanzieri, Palermo, Battaglia, Ibarra, F. Insúa, etc) I don't want him
it's not like I'm calling for Ortega, Gallardo, Almeyda (yes he un-retired), Buonanotte, Ferrari, etc to be on the national team

[Arg10]

Just heard that Ortega is going to get called-up for the friendlies next month?! Any truth to that?

[deviant]

Just heard that Ortega is going to get called-up for the friendlies next month?! Any truth to that?
I know that he got socked in a nightclub for touching a girl's ass without permission!

[west501]

Diego is probably stewing up some scandals as we speak
don't be surprised if he stops calling up Messi

[msi2]

Diego is probably stewing up some scandals as we speak
don't be surprised if he stops calling up Messi

Heh, wouldnt mind personally... :)

[west501]

Heh, wouldnt mind personally... :)

it would be the biggest waste of talent in the world :mad:

[Arg10]

Heh, wouldnt mind personally... :)

What guest said.

People are on Messi's ass it's not even funny. The kid hasn't been playing to his full potential, but it doesn't mean he's no trying. Ever since Riquelme left the spotlight has been on Messi and it's clear that he can't take it. In Barcelona, the pressure is spread around. Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Ibra... With us, it's plain old Messi. Let's not forget Diego himself had a bumpy start in his National Team career. Wasn't 1982 supposed to be a stepping stone for Diego? Give Messi a break. The kid is 22, won an U20 World Cup and Olympic Gold so far, he's not Diego, he can't win us games on his own.

Messi tends to do much better against European teams than South American teams. Next match is Spain, let's see what he does.

[west501]

I think Diego's problem in 82 was that the team wasn't built around him and underperformed
it wasn't until he went to Napoli that it became clear that you just had to base the team solely around him, usually to the detriment of the coach and other players
Messi was shuffled into the only free position in Barca's lineup and has been successfully integrated into one of the most fearsome club teams of all time, one where he is the best individual player and 'jewel of the crown'
right now he, like similarly talented stars Mascherano, Gago, Maxi, Tevez, Aguero, etc, Messi lost within a very poorly organized side
before getting rid of one of those players, before never repeating a lineup, before calling up 78 players in recent callups, just make things easier and get rid of one left-footed little man whose surname starts with an M, middle name starts with an A....;)

[Arg10]

http://tycsports.com/global/not_detail.php?id=53715

CAMBIASSSOOOOOOOOO! PUPI!

[msi2]

What guest said.

People are on Messi's ass it's not even funny. The kid hasn't been playing to his full potential, but it doesn't mean he's no trying. Ever since Riquelme left the spotlight has been on Messi and it's clear that he can't take it. In Barcelona, the pressure is spread around. Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Ibra... With us, it's plain old Messi. Let's not forget Diego himself had a bumpy start in his National Team career. Wasn't 1982 supposed to be a stepping stone for Diego? Give Messi a break. The kid is 22, won an U20 World Cup and Olympic Gold so far, he's not Diego, he can't win us games on his own.

Messi tends to do much better against European teams than South American teams. Next match is Spain, let's see what he does.

Well, i'm sorry to say, but he will have to grow up quickly from now. Because unfortunately, years are fleeing fast.
Regardless of his age, his wcq matches have been dismal... That's a fact. Playing out of position, playing as a 10, on the right, behind the strikers, as an offensive midfielder... quite frankly, got tired of the debate around him. What i saw all along is his performaces got worse and worse though. Against Uruguay and the second-half against Peru, he was a joke. Dont even remember against Paraguay, where he was absolutely laughable.

EDIT:

Talking about that, i went through a commentary on the kids' victory over Germany in the sub-17 category:

"ee lo que juega el pibe de la foto.. (talking about Araujo) espero que cuando este en la mayor sea igual y no se achique como messi.. gran futuro como los demas..!"

lmao!
Man, Messi got flagged, incredible!

[msi2]

In the end, It will be only Cambiasso... better than nothing.

Still dont understand why did he call Gago? :confused:
And Maxi? :confused: :confused:

[threervana]

The only one I wanna see in NT now is WALTER "The Wall" SAMUEL!!!!!!

[west501]

no Zanetti..is it possible this will happen two times in a row :confused:

and when are FIFA going to give Diego a suspension?
I want them to do it now so he'd get the sack, but wouldn't it be funny if he gets suspended in late May?

[Arg10]

no Zanetti..is it possible this will happen two times in a row :confused:

and when are FIFA going to give Diego a suspension?
I want them to do it now so he'd get the sack, but wouldn't it be funny if he gets suspended in late May?

So Diego picked no right-back, we always have Gutierrez!:( Or you know, the guy who's not even playing regularly in the SECOND DIVISION in England, Coloccini.

Cambiasso is back(who we seriously need and should never have been dropped), Gago is back?! WTF?! Gago? For real? Lavezzi? Is this guy even getting regular minutes at Napoli? Banega would have been a much better choice than Gago. No love for Saviola either, I see. Would have been nice to see Aimar/Di Maria/Saviola play together for the NT. Atleast Aimar and Higuain are still on the list.

[threervana]

Guess Diego would like to try out Ansaldi as a full-back, but he shouldnt drop E.Insua so quickly...

[Arg10]

http://i36.tinypic.com/2aglnrq.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/30bpsg7.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2eekcnq.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/ve4tbc.jpg

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this jersey. Looks like the one in 1986. It looks like there will be 2 versions. The first version will be tight to the body and the second one not so tight.

[west501]

looks like Veron has the tight one and Grondona has the fat one :o

hopefully Diego can continue to wear his replica 86 jersey from the stands..if they let him in...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41775000/jpg/_41775876_diego416.jpg

[Arg10]

looks like Veron has the tight one and Grondona has the fat one :o

hopefully Diego can continue to wear his replica 86 jersey from the stands..if they let him in...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41775000/jpg/_41775876_diego416.jpg

Still hopeful that they'll suspend him?

[west501]

I hope we lose scandalously to Spain and Serbia and that he then gets handed the 5+ touch-line ban and resigns with as little class as possible
if he celebrated making the cup the way he did, imagine how he'll step down :o

[threervana]

We're going to play Serbia after Spain??

[Arg10]

threervana, at this point it looks like we're just going to play Spain. All other matches seem to have been canceled.

In other news, Diego Perotti has been called-up to the National Team. Gutierrez got injured this past week-end and Maradona has called-up Perotti to replace him. Gotta say I'm excited to see this kid play.

[west501]

here is Spain's callup

Arqueros: Iker Casillas (Real Madrid), José Manuel Reina (Liverpool), Diego López (Villarreal).

Defensores: Raúl Albiol (Real Madrid), Joan Capdevila (Villarreal), Alvaro Arbeloa (Real Madrid), Andoni Iraola (Athletic), Carlos Marchena (Valencia), Gerard Piqué (Barcelona) Carles Puyol (Barcelona), Sergio Ramos (Real Madrid)

Mediocampistas: Xabi Alonso (Real Madrid), Sergio Busquets (Barcelona), Cesc Fábregas (Arsenal), Xavi Hernández (Barcelona), Andrés Iniesta (Barcelona)

Delanteros: Dani Güiza (Fenerbahce), Pablo Hernández (Valencia), Juan Manuel Mata (Valencia), Jesús Navas (Sevilla), David Silva (Valencia), Alvaro Negredo (Sevilla), David Villa (Valencia)

threervana, at this point it looks like we're just going to play Spain. All other matches seem to have been canceled.

In other news, Diego Perotti has been called-up to the National Team. Gutierrez got injured this past week-end and Maradona has called-up Perotti to replace him. Gotta say I'm excited to see this kid play.

Perotti should be interesting for the left side, much better option than Jonas :o

[threervana]

Di Maria and Perotti, Cool Wings~

[msi2]

He's going to play Maxi and Di Maria.

[west501]

I am worried because Verón is talking with Diego, but there are two problems

1) Diego needs to improve and they agree on this
2) Diego will not be able to improve and they will clash over this

[deviant]

I imagine the starting lineup for Spain will be:

------------Casillas
Ramos--Puyol--Pique--Capdevila
-Iniesta---Xavi--Cesc---Silva-
---------Mata----------------
----------------Villa----------

[west501]

friendly went pretty much as expected, congrats to Spain, what a team
if they'd had Torres it could have been far more one-sided

priceless expression of Diego showing up at his FIFA hearing, the results of which should follow later today

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2009/11/14/futbolinternacional/thumb/mdayan_diego1.jpg

:o

[Arg10]

Maradona's been suspended for 2 months, starting today until January 15. So that's like what, 1 match?

[west501]

Maradona's been suspended for 2 months, starting today until January 15. So that's like what, 1 match?

so they're pretty much giving him an extended summer break :(


http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2009/11/17/seleccion/fotos/messipermanente.jpg

have a look at this (http://www.lapermanenteamessi.com.ar/) :o:o:o:o
there is a group of Argentine fans that have made a joke(?:mad::p) page to try to convince Messi to perm his hair
it's the funniest thing I've seen in quite a long time

edit I joined the face book group (it was created last night) and it was 1800 now it is 2100..it's a total phenomenon..they're adding people by the minute jajajaja

[Arg10]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/22/guus-hiddink-diego-maradona-argentina

Guus Hiddink in line to join forces with Diego Maradona at World Cup

Not sure how trust worthy the guardian is, but I love it... but it'll never happen.

[west501]

I'm not ready to take that seriously at the moment, but it may be a good time to raise the issue of a foreigner at the helm. Should our next trainer be Argentine?

[fcb_sandy05]

I'm not ready to take that seriously at the moment, but it may be a good time to raise the issue of a foreigner at the helm. Should our next trainer be Argentine?

Have Argentina (or even Brazil) ever been coached by a foreigner let alone a European?

Despite a majority of players now based in Europe I wonder if we will see that happening anytime soon.

[west501]

Have Argentina (or even Brazil) ever been coached by a foreigner let alone a European?



I don't think so!

[fcb_sandy05]

I don't think so!

Yeah, I assume it would be a big deal for a foreigner to be even considered for the position much like Italy, France etc

[west501]

you're probably right, but you also have to consider the crisis in the national league, where the major clubs all lose their best players before the age of 20 for the last decade and struggle in the standings
established trainers like Gallego, Diaz, and younger trainers like Astrada, Simeone, etc are clearly able trainers are unable to succeed with the relative mediocrity they have available and don't grow in stature the way you'd want for a national team trainer (Brazil will have a similar crisis to replace the very poor Dunga)
in the latter half of this decade no club has built a great consistent side with one trainer the way Bianchi did with Boca in the first half..
about a month ago Racing Club de Avellaneda were close to contracting Lothar Matthaus, but it fell through
there is a lot of talk about the crisis of Argentine football right now, both domestically and internationally, and I'd argue a lot of it has to do with coaching because just look at our callup list and the wealth of players under 30 we have, it's ridiculous :eek:
it would be nice if more of these players played together
I think if we were to combine what we have with Liverpool, Inter, and Benfica, we'd be in pretty good shape

Carrizo
Zanetti-Burdisso-Samuel-Insua
Aimar-Masche-Cambiasso
Messi
Saviola-Lisandro

just get a guy who can organise these players, foster partnerships that already exist at the club, or existed at the national team, level and lift the trophy

[msi2]

Forget about Carrizo west501, he's a complete flop in Europe. Can you beleive it? He's eating bench at Zaragoza! :eek:

[west501]

jajaja, he's still the best we've got by far
he can come back to River anytime :cool:

[Arg10]

jajaja, he's still the best we've got by far
he can come back to River anytime :cool:

With the way River are at the moment, I bet even a 48 year old Francescoli looks good right about now.:p;)

Oh and Romero>Carrizo.

What is it with our goalkeepers who make the jump to Europe and suddenly choke?

[west501]

Francescoli never stopped looking good

and with Carrizo, he's so good that you have to choose him over his club form
remember Vivas didn't play for Arsenal but was chosen by Bielsa
JP is a leader in the back, and outstanding technical keeper, and very smart in general
you still saw flashes of his brilliance at Zaragoza, but it's true he's been unlucky in Europe, going to two sides who have more pain than glory, particularly defensively, these days
let me put it like this, he was almost singlehandedly responsible for River, with many of the same players and all of the same disasters, winning a few tournaments back and we have been lost without him
he has more star quality than Romero or Andujar, who are both excellent in their own right

[threervana]

Ustari is also doing okay at the moment:)

I agree with 501's point, combining the players from those major clubs such as Inter, Barca, Benfica, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Marseille or even Man City and Rubin Kazan might be a good choice.

GK from another club
Zanetti/Zabaleta Samuel/Heinze G.Milito(If he recovers soon)/Garay(not enough minutes) Insua/Ansaldi/Shaffer(not doing well in club)
Di Maria/Maxi Mascherano/Gago Cambiasso/Lucho
Messi/Aimar/Dominguez (He worths a chance maybe)
Saviola/Aguero/Tevez Higuain/D.Milito

And add Demichelis then there is already a powerful squad.

[msi2]

Serious question, after having seen Barcelona - Inter, do you think our players are that good?

[Dogme]

Have Argentina (or even Brazil) ever been coached by a foreigner let alone a European?

Just had a look and Brazil have always had Brazilian managers. The best i could come up with for Argentina was a manager called Renato Cesarini who was born in Italy but emigrated with his family to Argentina when he was 3 months old. He went on to manage Argentina in 1968-69.

[Arg10]

Serious question, after having seen Barcelona - Inter, do you think our players are that good?

Yeah, I do. Zanetti had somewhat of an off night, but that happens. I thought Cambiasso was solid(he broke up several plays), Samuel did fine and Milito didn't get any service whatsoever. It was Mourinho who was clearly out coached.

[DSGB]

Yeah, I do. Zanetti had somewhat of an off night, but that happens. I thought Cambiasso was solid(he broke up several plays), Samuel did fine and Milito didn't get any service whatsoever. It was Mourinho who was clearly out coached.

I would also like to point out that Barcelona completely outplayed Inter Milan. When you watch what Barcelona did to a top team without the likes of Messi starting, you start to see why maybe Messi performs so much better for Barcelona than he does for Argentina. Look what kind of possession they're able sustain throughout an entire match. They're pretty much on the offensive for the entire 90 minutes until they decide that enough is enough. When you're on the offensive that often and the players around you are playing that well, of course you're going to have opportunities to show individual brilliance. The connection that all of those players have with one another is what allows Messi to really shine.

In contrast, when you watch Argentina play, it always seems like we're on our back heels. Even when we do manage to get possession, it's usually very short lived and doesn't result in any real scoring opportunities. From what I can tell, Diego has implemented a counter-attacking mentality into the team where we get control of the ball and go full steam ahead trying to get down the field as fast as possible to try and score. It's so rare now that you see us string together a set of passes that really shows the beauty of what Argentina once was. Instead we've been forced to choke down this ugly style of play that obviously doesn't suit us very well as we've been struggling to even get away with the cheap goals.

Anyways, back to my point. For those people that try to question Messi's dedication to the team as a direct correlation between his performances for Barcelona as compared to his performances for Argentina, you need to pay more attention to the support that he gets from each of those sides. You can say all you want about his dedication to the shirt, but just remember that he was the one that pushed for his inclusion in the Olympics and he was the one that left Barcelona a week early to prepare for the match against Brasil. The kid (and he still is just a kid) loves his country and wants to help them win. He can't be expected to do it by himself when you watch just how poorly we're playing as a whole.

Let me also say that I think a lot of the criticism aimed at Messi has a lot to do with his attitude towards our lackluster performances. It's pretty obvious to me in his body language that he's frustrated with how terribly this team plays. You'll notice that as the game goes on and as it begins to look worse and worse for our team, he starts to drift away and seem disinterested. Granted, if he was more of a leader than this wouldn't be the case, but I think it's directly related to his frustration about the situation moreso than his dedication to the shirt. Consider that he isn't really allowed the opportunity to experience much in the way of losing with a team like Barcelona. Their record is always going to be immaculate and more often than not they're going to be firing on all cylinders. He hasn't adjusted himself to the idea that his team is going to struggle every time they take the field. Should he become used to that and persevere? Well, let's just hope that the team can reach the point of winning and playing well so he doesn't HAVE to get used to that mindset.

And lastly... fire Diego and eliminate this counterattack crap. It really makes me want to vomit with rage. That is all :).

[west501]

yeah you can't judge Barcelona's opponents after they play Barcelona
the relentless attack they play reminds me of Bielsa's side, indeed Chile have been compared to Barcelona now
if only Bielsa had had Messi :(

[Arg10]

yeah you can't judge Barcelona's opponents after they play Barcelona
the relentless attack they play reminds me of Bielsa's side, indeed Chile have been compared to Barcelona now
if only Bielsa had had Messi :(

:(

Here's the list for the match against Catalunya on December 22.

Arqueros: Diego Pozo (Colón) y Mariano Andújar (Catania).

Defensores: Nicolás Pareja (Espanyol), Martín Demichelis (Bayern Munich), Nicolás Otamendi (Vélez), Cristian Ansaldi (Rubin Kazan) y Cristian Alvarez (Arsenal).

Volantes: Fernando Gago (Real Madrid), Maxi Rodríguez (Atlético Madrid), Jesús Dátolo (Nápoli), Angel Di María (Benfica), Pablo Aimar (Benfica), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool) y Mario Bolatti (Huracán).

Delanteros: Gonzalo Higuaín (Real Madrid), Sergio Agüero (Atlético Madrid), Lionel Messi (Barcelona), Martín Palermo (Boca) y Ezequiel Lavezzi (Nápoli).

Gago, hahaha. Palermo and Lavezzi, double hahaha. Nice to see Bolatti make the list, same for Pareja. But hopefully, this time, Pareja can actually get some freaking minutes(even if it is a useless friendly) instead of always picking someone over him.

[msi2]

DSGB> You are making a good point on Diego's philosophy of the game, on how he sees it and in this context, the fall out with Riquelme takes a lot more sense. I was suspecting it but it appears clear now Diego is subjugated by Bilardo's way of seeing the game. Anti-football at its worst, always depending on the individual brilliance to save you, results at all cost... yeah very bilardista indeed. Let's hope we wont have another bottle's fiasco like in the 1990.

[msi2]

Each time i see one of our players as a target for one of the big EPL teams, i'm shaking... it looks like Aguero will be a Chelsea's player next-season... maybe next winter.

[west501]

I don't think Diego is Bilardista at all..he lined us up with three strikers on a number of occasions and played belligerently attacking football against Bolivia and Ecuador thousands of metres above sea level
I think the main problem with our side is that we have no playmaker and no targetman
Diego just isn't tactically astute and as a result we can't keep the ball when we should and play defensively when we have to

also I am worried about Agüero going to the Premiership because I think it's a poor career move
but in terms of our world cup team I might like it because remember Crespo came to the world cup from Chelsea in the best physical shape of his career, which is something Agüero seems to lack at Atletico Madrid
he's also likely to see a lot of the bench at the Bridge, which means he could be better rested for the cup, while Aleti will fatigue him because they depend on him to rescue them from relative mediocrity
(edit: like he did this weekend..that looked suspiciously like a 'buy me' inspired performance to me :rolleyes:)

[Arg10]

(edit: like he did this weekend..that looked suspiciously like a 'buy me' inspired performance to me :rolleyes:)

2 goals and 1 assist... :o Let's face it, if any of us we're Aguero we would want to get the hell out of Madrid too. But where? Italy? Germany?

Concerning Chelsea, guest you brought up his physical condition. Crespo's a big guy who was rarely injured in his career and had great physical condition. Aguero is scrappy, but is he scrappy enough for the English league? I don't want Aguero to be the next Tevez.

[west501]

2 goals and 1 assist... :o Let's face it, if any of us we're Aguero we would want to get the hell out of Madrid too. But where? Italy? Germany?

Concerning Chelsea, guest you brought up his physical condition. Crespo's a big guy who was rarely injured in his career and had great physical condition. Aguero is scrappy, but is he scrappy enough for the English league? I don't want Aguero to be the next Tevez.

I wouldn't mind seeing Aguerito play for another Spanish team..imagine him pairing with Villa, or better yet with Messi and Ibra, or up front with Higuain (and Benz, Ruud, Raul, Ronaldo, Kaka, and company :p)
Italy would also be a fine choice, even France (imagine him with Licha Lopez)
England imo is too stuffy at the top and honestly as a fan of La Liga I resent the fact that they are taking all of the talent away from Spain because a league without Aguero is worse off (and for what, so he can make a lot of money sitting on an English bench?)
but like I said, since he's gone to Atletico I think his physical shape has gone downhill, partly because of poor training and partly because they use him too much
so if he goes to a top 4 English side where he is trained better and used sparingly, he may be more useful for the world cup..unless he becomes unhappy at his inability to win a place like Carlitos....which is obviously your fear
Crespo was stronger than that and asked for a move, knowing full well he was above the bench, but it's difficult for a younger player

[Arg10]

I wouldn't mind seeing Aguerito play for another Spanish team..imagine him pairing with Villa, or better yet with Messi and Ibra, or up front with Higuain (and Benz, Ruud, Raul, Ronaldo, Kaka, and company :p)
Italy would also be a fine choice, even France (imagine him with Licha Lopez)
England imo is too stuffy at the top and honestly as a fan of La Liga I resent the fact that they are taking all of the talent away from Spain because a league without Aguero is worse off (and for what, so he can make a lot of money sitting on an English bench?)
but like I said, since he's gone to Atletico I think his physical shape has gone downhill, partly because of poor training and partly because they use him too much
so if he goes to a top 4 English side where he is trained better and used sparingly, he may be more useful for the world cup..unless he becomes unhappy at his inability to win a place like Carlitos....which is obviously your fear
Crespo was stronger than that and asked for a move, knowing full well he was above the bench, but it's difficult for a younger player

I'd love it if Aguero can stay in Spain, but it won't happen. If Aguero leaves Atletico, he's also leaving the country. Him with Licha at Lyon would be sick, too bad they can't afford him. Benfica anyone?! Di Maria, Aimar, Saviola, Aguero.:p

You're right about Atletico overusing him. If you factor in the U20 World Cup in 2007 and the Olympics in 2008, the kid is dead. The theory of him going to an English club and being used better benefiting us is an interesting one. He'll be much better rested than he currently is at Atletico, but his playing time would have to be balanced. Too much time on the bench and he'll become rusty. Too much playing time and he'll be exhausted.

And yes, there's also my fear that he'll be the next Tevez. For me, Carlitos' career is as good as dead. He should have gone to Italy, Spain or even Germany when he left Manchester United. Instead the idiot goes to Manchester City knowing full well there's like 9 other strikers on the team. Unlike Crespo(like you said) who got the hell out of England when he got the chance.

Oh and Aguero-Zlatan-Messi... deadly.

[msi2]

BTW, for those who are wondering what's going on with Fazio:

http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2009/12/04/futbolinternacional/02055183.html

He will have to go through surgery. It has been for months he hasnt played regularly.

[msi2]

About Monzon, can anyone tell me where this player went?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlF_V8NGyis

This monzon is NT level quality, no doubt about it.
There are other videos in the link provided.

What a shame... He was really promising and then he went to Spain...

I cant believe how bad he's playing right now.
I also cant believe how we are unable to have good sidebacks at NT level.

[threervana]

This kind of shit happens to so many young argentinean players and Monzon is just one of them.

Now I hope Ansaldi and Insua could keep on improving their levels!

[west501]

the problem for Monzon and a lot of young players, particularly those that play in defensive positions, is that they run into more experienced and competent regulars, particularly at these small clubs
so they all have dreams that by going to a second or third tier club in a major European league that they will 1) play every match and 2) help the team improve
I think it's pretty clear that barring the sheik investment model in English teams (which is not going so well anyway) that the Euro league bureaucracy is more difficult to break because of lack of talent, resources, and coaching
so young Argentine players need to go into these situations with more of a professional and less ambitious mentality
a player like Monzon wanted to be a superstar from day one and that led him to stray from the consistent play that got him
my question is should he have left Boca and the answer is no
the best example of the Argentine superstar gone wrong is Fernando Cavenaghi, who *crosses fingers for River's elections after which he may come back* has rotted the kind of talents that would otherwise have had him wearing the 9 in June away in a failed European experience
going to a poor European team is not the formula for these players and they need to be mindful of this...remember Javi Mascherano at West Ham? this is a player who couldn't get a minute at West Ham but with a competent coach like Rafa they built the midfield around him

in better news, I am excited about our group because we will have three excellent warmup matches and the serious tournament starts in the fourth match (unlike the last two times)
also, it's about time Brazil got a more difficult draw than us..for so long we've said they make the best with their luck, well now we have to do the same and bring home this trophy in 2010 and in 2014 :D

[threervana]

El Torino is not appreciated by his coach in France as well, which is sad. He needs to come back to River to get the public eye.

[west501]

the elections appear to have been tainted by fraud
D'Onofrio won by two votes but then Passarella sensationally produced several votes for FRASSARELLA and the recount determined him the winner :mad:
I was going for Caselli anyway

[fcb_sandy05]

Have Argentina (or even Brazil) ever been coached by a foreigner let alone a European?

Despite a majority of players now based in Europe I wonder if we will see that happening anytime soon.

Of course Tim Vickery has the answer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2009/10/can_european_managers_succeed.html

[msi2]

Roy, I would like to know what's going on mundoalbiceleste... each time i'm going to the blog it literally freezes my browser (firefox)... is there too much content on the page (especially embedded videos)?

[DSGB]

Roy, I would like to know what's going on mundoalbiceleste... each time i'm going to the blog it literally freezes my browser (firefox)... is there too much content on the page (especially embedded videos)?

Working fine for me. Have you tried multiple browsers? I'm using Firefox.

[Arg10]

Roy, I would like to know what's going on mundoalbiceleste... each time i'm going to the blog it literally freezes my browser (firefox)... is there too much content on the page (especially embedded videos)?

Weird. To be honest, that's the first time I've ever heard that. I use Firefox and it runs smooth, same on my IE and Chrome. It seems to be doing fine for DSGB. However, we(Seba, John and I) were actually thinking about cutting down on the amount of things on the blog, so I guess this is good timing.

Maybe if I link you to a news article on Mundo(instead of the whole blog)? That way if it freezes we know it's not because of the Youtube videos but if it doesn't freeze, then it is because of the content on it.

Try this:
http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2009/12/mundo-albiceleste-pod-world-cup-draw.html

It's just one news post and not the entire blog. Let me know if it freezes or not. Thanks in advance.

Oh and for the mods, if it's considered advertising, just remove it.

[akd]

the elections appear to have been tainted by fraud
D'Onofrio won by two votes but then Passarella sensationally produced several votes for FRASSARELLA and the recount determined him the winner :mad:
I was going for Caselli anyway

Is there so much money to rob in River that they made such a big fuss about this election? I mean the whole city was plastered with political ads from the nominees, at times I thought we were voting for the national president.

[west501]

Is there so much money to rob in River that they made such a big fuss about this election? I mean the whole city was plastered with political ads from the nominees, at times I thought we were voting for the national president.

I daresay we're as if not more important

[msi2]

Weird. To be honest, that's the first time I've ever heard that. I use Firefox and it runs smooth, same on my IE and Chrome. It seems to be doing fine for DSGB. However, we(Seba, John and I) were actually thinking about cutting down on the amount of things on the blog, so I guess this is good timing.

Maybe if I link you to a news article on Mundo(instead of the whole blog)? That way if it freezes we know it's not because of the Youtube videos but if it doesn't freeze, then it is because of the content on it.

Try this:
http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2009/12/mundo-albiceleste-pod-world-cup-draw.html

It's just one news post and not the entire blog. Let me know if it freezes or not. Thanks in advance.

Oh and for the mods, if it's considered advertising, just remove it.

Yeah no it's just a chore for me. :(
Each time i go to the site, my browser slows down considerably (sometimes freezes completely), i think there's probably too much flash content on a page...

[DSGB]

Yeah no it's just a chore for me. :(
Each time i go to the site, my browser slows down considerably (sometimes freezes completely), i think there's probably too much flash content on a page...

Sounds like you need more RAM :)

[msi2]

Sounds like you need more RAM :)

The problem has been recent.

[jone]

Yes this is something which is a news before the world cup
and which is suppose to be very very important one.

I think their are the player which are going to take care
of these things like boco are the one which is good one
should take around.

Thanks
Jone

[DSGB]

Yes this is something which is a news before the world cup
and which is suppose to be very very important one.

I think their are the player which are going to take care
of these things like boco are the one which is good one
should take around.

Thanks
Jone

It's very hard to understand what you're trying to say. :(

[Arg10]

It's very hard to understand what you're trying to say. :(

I'm not sure I understand him either.

Some news for the Catalunya match. Pastore and Papa have been called-up. It'll be interesting to see Pastore(if he does get minutes) and how well he would do. Never really liked Papa, so I'm not exactly thrilled to see him.

[west501]

I wonder who will man the touch line during that match
for some reason I fantasize that we will play infinitely better and that Diego will be forced to step aside or be sacked outright :p
whoever it is will have a tall order against he likes of the Catalan callup

in other news: Bolatti seems set for a move (https://connect.clearpar.com/ClearParApp/ViewDoc.aspx?trid=575897&adfid=64268)
apparently Barcelona, Sevilla, and Lazio are interested
I think Sevilla would be good, but I would also like to see him go to France, where after years of domination by Lyon, there seems to be a good collection of players/teams at the top level
it would be good to see him get first team football and to replace Gago (who is probably going back to Boquita) in our national team

[Arg10]

News going around is that we face Canada and Israel in late May. Both matches to be played in Argentina.

Maxi to Liverpool... hopefully it can revive his career. Banega... what a goal versus Villarreal on Sunday. He really, really needs to be called-up. Enough of this Gago crap, get Banega. Salvio's now at Atletico Madrid, anyone else get the feeling he'll just bust and go back to Argentina or get sent on loan somewhere in Russia by next year?

Here are our next two matches:

Argentina vs. Costa Rica
Tuesday, January 26, 2010.

Argentina vs. Jamaica
Wednesday, February 10, 2010.

We also have Germany on March 3.

I see no point in having these two useless friendly's.

[west501]

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2010/01/20/futbolinternacional/thumb/blue.jpg

some good news for the new year is the incredible return to form of 'Sir' Carlos Tevez who is playing in the way he did when he made his name synonymous with success

la nacion ran a good feature earlier this year about our strikers in Europe (http://espanol.news.yahoo.com/s/07012010/92/n-sports-1219530-europa-sobran.html) though it looked better with the graphics

adding to Banega's great Gago-replacing run, Bolatti has signed for Fiorentina (http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2010/01/20/futbolinternacional/02123697.html) which is great news as they'll both be playing European football this year

in other words, the kids are alright.....but

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2010/01/19/seleccion/thumb/maradoefe.jpg

is it just me or does it look like Diego is back on the yey :confused::o

edit: more pics here (http://www.canchallena.com/fotos=2071-por-los-chicos), what a clown :o

[west501]

anyone else see the resemblance?

http://www.ole.clarin.com/diario/2010/01/25/seleccion/thumb/mar.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3KIJt17keOY/SX-cISakEJI/AAAAAAAABZE/ZBarW2LmL14/s400/Tony+Clifton.jpg

Diego looks and acts exactly like Tony Clifton (Andy Kaufman's alter ego)

[Arg10]

anyone else see the resemblance?

Diego looks and acts exactly like Tony Clifton (Andy Kaufman's alter ego)

:eek: The resemblance is striking :eek:

So Palermo to play tomorrow versus Costa Rica and will likely wear the captain's armband? :o

[west501]

I guess Diego is completely oblivious to the crisis Boca is living right now :mad:

[Arg10]

I guess Diego is completely oblivious to the crisis Boca is living right now :mad:

I'm not a River fan or anything and I know that you guys aren't exactly going through the best of times either but him refusing to call-up River players forever now is getting ridiculous. But then again, who would he call-up from River? Out of the players called-up, 4 of them are Boca, 0 are River.

Fabián MONZÓN (Boca Juniors)
Federico INSUA (Boca Juniors)
Martín PALERMO (Boca Juniors)
Nicolás GAITÁN (Boca Juniors)

Last I heard Monzon isn't even getting regular minutes, is he? I'm somewhat surprised(despite what I just said about River) that Ortega hasn't gotten called-up since he had to pull out of the match against Ghana back in September, I would have thought Diego would give him a chance, but good thing he's ignored him.

I can just imagine the World Cup list.

Pato
Palermo
Gallardo
Ortega
Maxi Lopez
Jose Sand
Sebastian Battaglia
Schiavi

:(