what is going on in the serie A? - Luciano Moggi exposed?? [Archive]

zoom77

04-05-2006, 04:42 PM

I love the timing!

Last year just one week before the most important game of the season against Milan in San Siro, a two years old movie just show up suddenly from nowhere showing Cannavaro taking a shot and on the same tape the face of Veron (inter’s famous player) is intentionally have a black circle to hide his face. Of course it ended up that the shot is for a medicine approved by the FiFA and all the players take it and it’s only prohibited in two or three countries over Europe, France is one of them. Veron himself said that when they introduced him.

Edited: I forgot to say that, Cannavaro at the time of shooting that movie wasn't even a Juventus player!!! he was a Parma player but it was more convenient - for some people- to show the movie when Canna joined Juventus and right before Milan's game LOL LOL

The idea was to cause a problem for Canna and the whole team right before the critical game because if we lost that game we would’ve lost the title, Plus the old famous ruining the title celebration – live in guilt and shame strategy.

Now, an article that is full of “that could land Moggi in court” “what could be some willing allies in high places” “what could be match rigging”.

Now there is only two games left, is this COINCIDENT? Yes of course it is because we are living in a world that is full of coincidences.

I don't know if this is true or is it as the writer descibed it: a bubble of flatulence in a Jacuzzi? I guess we have to wait and see.

Never the less, the timing is just so coincidental LOL

PS...please...this is NOT a juve v inter thread or a "i hate juve" or "fuck off inter" thread...

I will try to believe you but please tell me: how many topics opened by Inter’s fan about Juve? And how many opened by inter’s fan also about Inter? …….wait……it’s a coincident …lol

PS: A lot of topics got deleted in the forum here lately since the copy right thing YET you still can answer the previous question very easly if you take a look at the topics that people opened in this section from only one month ago.

Labfm1

04-05-2006, 05:28 PM

I will try to believe you but please tell me: how many topics opened by Inter’s fan about Juve? And how many opened by inter’s fan also about Inter? …….wait……it’s a coincident …lol

PS: A lot of topics got deleted in the forum here lately since the copy right thing YET you still can answer the previous question very easly if you take a look at the topics that people opened in this section from only one month ago.

well, the last couple posts about inter have been by a liverpool fan and stangely enough, a JUVE FAN!
i don't know what you are trying to imply...but it has nothing to do with who opens the thread...i just want people to know that my INTENTIONis not juve bashing...i want to hear more news on this but i hope its not true

narduch

04-05-2006, 05:30 PM

Finally, proof of what I've suspected for years.

And if you're worried that goal.com is a crappy source, don't worry. La Gazzetta and La Corriere were the Italian papers that broke this story.

I wonder if Juve will get the same treatment that was afforded Genoa last seaoson. I doubt that though.

Another interesting point is that it also includes a CL match. I wonder how UEFA will handle this.

djcash50

04-05-2006, 07:27 PM

To note, there were over 100 pages of dialog that they sifted through. Other than the whole maseratti thing, Moggi talked shit about a bunch of people (lippi, Delio Rossi) and that's it. Unless they have something more than that, Moggi will slip out of this problem. Otherwise, juve is fucked, big time.

Here is some more stuff he said:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Altro_Calcio/Primo_Piano/2006/05_Maggio/04/intercettazioni.shtml

rollosan

05-05-2006, 05:00 PM

This is becoming pretty big... I read on the Corriere that there are other investigations going on for different games and referees.
Anyway nothing will happen to the club. Nothing ever happens to Juventus anyway. I've seen stuff like this before. And there is no coincidence or conspiracy theories against Juventus here. They won already the league for this year; no doubt about that.

Moggi is gonna be banned, Pairetto is gonna be banned and another couple of people, but nothing more.
But if something comes up about a smaller club, then that club is gonna get relegated.

The interesting spin to the story is the CL comment. The Ajax guys have already said that they will follow this very closely. UEFA has already asked the Italian league to change to remove Pairetto from his position as designator for the refs. Basically they seem to act very quickly, compared to the Italians.

Ultimately, this is all true and it's another shitty moment for italian football. Hope this doesn't affect the refs and FIFA at the world cup. That's my worry...

matidbr

05-05-2006, 09:14 PM

Big boom.
I am not going to defend Juve just waiting for more news. Just curious how it ends.

djcash50

06-05-2006, 02:05 AM

Moggi will probably resign if he gets into this shit any deeper than he already is. I read somewhere that he is also being investigated for sports betting in Napoli.

orange22

06-05-2006, 03:27 AM

In case you haven't seen the goal.com article yet, here are some of the most pertinent quotes from transcriptions of the "Moggi Tapes":

Mazzini: Ok
(…)

Luciano Moggi: Uhm

Biscardi: Uehh….Lucia

And perhaps the most chilling of all...
Enzo: Madonna!

1ND33D

06-05-2006, 07:45 AM

so sad to say but its not surprise , i was praying for this moment when situation like this will bcome crystal-clear 4 public, juve and milan owners playin bad games,today we see what is happening in the 2football top -of -the -hill stage...it is a war,dirty money and corruption....their dirty affairs will have bad end...

My p.o.v. is to resurrect the real calcio manner,doesnt matter how ...there is no struggle and intrigues ...ppl need a real battle 4 the title with all the teams but not only 3 or 4...

forza Inter

deviant

06-05-2006, 09:16 AM

tifoso-inter

06-05-2006, 03:28 PM

this is not surprising at all. it only justifies what everyone has been saying (anti-juve) in past years.

i'll just say it's quite pathetic that moggi had to ask for specific refs in a game against ajax... with the players juve have they should be able to easily beat ajax regardless of who is the official.

on a side note... deviantmexa: that's a very piss-weak response don't you think?

i'm out of here.. this thread is about to be flooded with BS!

CIAO A TUTTI!

phat

06-05-2006, 04:39 PM

i'm out of here.. this thread is about to be flooded with BS!

CIAO A TUTTI!

Everytime you get involved it becomes a mess.

deviant

06-05-2006, 11:17 PM

on a side note... deviantmexa: that's a very piss-weak response don't you think?

you've been pissed on all over this season theres no need for more is there?

narduch

09-05-2006, 12:31 AM

This is the most damming part of it all:

'An even more shocking conversation takes place between Pairetto and Paolo Dondarini, the referee whom he had selected to officiate Juventus’s Serie A match against Sampdoria. “You know what you have to do,” Pairetto says. “Make sure you see everything. Even that which isn’t there.”'

Check out the entire article, it give a pretty good overview of the entire situation: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3361-2170308,00.html

joekidd

09-05-2006, 02:48 AM

I'm a huge juve supporter but sometimes I see juve being awarded a penalty very easily in games and that makes you think what is really going on in the game. Over the last 2 seasons, I have seen Cannavaro get away with so many tackles that would have resulted in a penalty if some other team had done that to juve or milan (I still think Cannavaro is one of best defenders in the world). So, even though the prospect of moggi and friends conducting business like this on phones that can be tapped seems ridiculous (people in this line of work dont discuss stuff like this on phones), there is still room for suspision that somehow juve get the better of the smaller teams. If you notice the difference over the last few seasons between juve and the other big clubs, juve never drop too many points in a season against the smaller clubs while milan, inter, roma tend to lose to some of the weakest teams once every other month or so in seria A.

deviant

09-05-2006, 06:20 AM

Im innocent :cool:
http://www.calcioblog.it/uploads/moggireal.jpg

Vito Corleone

09-05-2006, 08:44 AM

This is the most damming part of it all:
“You know what you have to do,” Pairetto says. “Make sure you see everything. Even that which isn’t there.”
If they had heard someone say "you have to give 110% for this game" to the players, Berlusc.. ahem, I mean some newspapers, would be writing "Juventus is encouraging steroid use!!".

Dogme

09-05-2006, 02:35 PM

If Juventus hadn't won the Serie A title last season and be well on the way to winning a second sucessive Serie A title, then none of this would have come out. Berlusconi owns the media in Italy and he owns AC Milan, and he's pissed that his team can't win championships anymore. Simple really.

zoom77

09-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Berlusconi owns the media in Italy and he owns AC Milan, and he's pissed that his team can't win championships anymore. Simple really.

Very true, allow me to add more details to your statement.

In 1982 and before the Unforgettable world cup that Italy took, an earthquake shock Italy in the form of a scandal when Milan was accused and PROVEN guilty of buying some games. The punishment was to go down to Serie B for the 2nd time only this time with shame that forced some Milan’s fans to change their heart and become …….can you guess? Lol…..yes…An Inter’s fan. I guess we know now why some (not all) of them hate us so much.

Anyway, they were lucky that Italy made a miracle in Spain 1982 and took out the Mighty Brazil and won the cup, no one expected that to happen giving the very humble first round results. When they came back to Italy carrying that golden cup no one cared that much about Milan’s scandal.

Juventus was the big star on that cup with Zoff, Rossi, Tardelli and the legend SCIREA.

In the same year we made a deal with a young player named Michel Platini 3-time Serie A top scorer IN THE ROW -- 1983 (16 goals), 1984 (20), 1985 (18). 3 years later the old lady took the European Cup. After that Juventus was the destination for stars, and players just kept getting the golden ball for best players in Europe (Rossi, Platini, Zidan, delpiero and Nedved)

This made some people the opposite of happy and the only thing that can make them feel happy again is to see Juventus in Serie B just like them + a scandal just like them. If we are dirty, Juventus must get dirty too.

Since Berlusconi came to power and till now, not one year passed without attacking Juventus and trying so hard to stick any scandal to us. That’s why a 2004 investigation is brought right now 2 weeks before the end of Serie A.

And now that Berlusconi is exposed as a corrupt politician (surprise surprise!!) And left his chair, he got nothing else to do but heal that old wound.

Yea, you wanna get shit done, you gotta do it yourself (Gazzetta by the way is Milan city’s first news paper…..hay it’s all coincidences lol) .

Tapping people’s phone without court orders? Hay…who cares…besides it’s okay to do “some” bad for the greater good. Machiavelli said that lol

No one mentioned or wants to mention that Franco Carraro the head of the Italian football federation just resigned yesterday because it doesn’t look good. Obviously moggi’s case got something to do with it. Carraro was Milan's President!! I don't to laugh or what?

So when a Milan’s fan come and says there is no conspiracy here…I just find myself sneezing hard as I got a sever allergy against BS.

zoom77

09-05-2006, 03:53 PM

i don't know what you are trying to imply.

I didn't mean to bother you or imply anything. Just something i wanted to say.

narduch

09-05-2006, 10:33 PM

Ah yes, blame Milan for the fact that Juve has been caught cheating.

alpi

10-05-2006, 05:27 PM

that's not the point. last news are even worse, many people are involved in all kinds of conversations, including lippi and two clubs from lombardia which can be milan, inter, atalanta and brescia.
regarding the conversation between pairetto and dondarini and the so called penalty gift for juve, this occured last year in sampdoria-juve 0-3. please see attached the image of that penalty. i will let you be the judges. and i want to say that this is a shame because in the last years we had some serious situations in serie A like: bribery (rolex watches given by AS Roma to certain referees), financial coverups (Lazio who currently has a debt of 160 million euros but still in Serie A), fake passports for players (AS Roma and Inter involved), Georgatos dopping scandal (Inter involved). I ask you: does anyone know of any kind of media mess like this one? No, because Juve was not involved in those.
One more thing: on the Moggi agenda there is a discussion between Moggi and Pairetto about a Maseratti. The Napoli prosecutors have found out today that car has been fully paid for by its owner. There was no bribery attempt.
I will return with more news these days, until then please check this picture (Emerson is number 8 and a Samdoria player taking him down). And judge. With honesty! Is this a penalty or a theft?

http://www.juventus1897.it/images/temp/sj.jpg

narduch

10-05-2006, 06:06 PM

and i want to say that this is a shame because in the last years we had some serious situations in serie A like: bribery (rolex watches given by AS Roma to certain referees), financial coverups (Lazio who currently has a debt of 160 million euros but still in Serie A), fake passports for players (AS Roma and Inter involved), Georgatos dopping scandal (Inter involved). I ask you: does anyone know of any kind of media mess like this one? No, because Juve was not involved in those.

This isn't a media conspiracy like Juve fans want people to believe.

This is a big story because it pretty much confirms what Serie A fans have suspected for years.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see why this scandal is much bigger news then any of the ones you listed above.

alpi

10-05-2006, 06:12 PM

beside accusations, do you have anything else to say? something about all the coverups in serie A? ori maybe about Javi Morenos declaration about milan players dopping themselves? or maybe about the Lentini transfer for which milan was investigated and of course ebverybody waited 10 years and the case was archived? i suppose not.

narduch

10-05-2006, 06:28 PM

There's nothing I love more then moral relativism.

The mistakes that others have made in the past don't absolve Juventus for the crap they've pulled off here.

I'm against all cheating in the sport I love the most, so, yes, all those issues you raise piss me off as well.

But they have no bearing on the current Juventus scandal.

kupz

11-05-2006, 06:57 PM

The inevitable has happened lads, the boys have resigned. Confirmed today.

Nelly

11-05-2006, 07:09 PM

The entire board has resigned from Juventus.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4763239.stm

kupz

11-05-2006, 07:20 PM

Out with the old and in with the new. A new Juventus era is dawning :)

deviant

11-05-2006, 08:12 PM

I guess we have to prove that we can win without Moggi like as if he was one of the players and thats perfectly fine with me :)

Jason

11-05-2006, 08:14 PM

I guess we have to prove that we can win without Moggi like as if he was one of the players and thats perfectly fine with me :)

Yeah, somehow I think Juve will manage :)

never seen a whole board go before, that's pretty cool

matidbr

11-05-2006, 08:49 PM

I'm a little confused.
I really like the way how Juventus is/was ruled under the Triad (mostly the transfers politics) plus we gained so many trophies while Moggi was a head.
On the other hand maybe it's time for changes but still I expect some hard times now.

leoni11

11-05-2006, 09:07 PM

I agree with you mati :confused: what's gonna happen? Changes are allways bound to happen but i dont want any change of scenerey from last year, still want us to get the scudetto this year and end this year at the top ...

Unregistered

11-05-2006, 10:43 PM

maybe we'll see Don Fabio in Madrid next season after all! ;) :cool:

SmAiL

11-05-2006, 11:26 PM

I'm italian... this is shamely...

For years there was only voices about "strange juventus games".. now they are a cruel truth.
In theese days a big mountain of shit caming out.. Moggi is the boss of serieA

Buff_K

12-05-2006, 01:23 AM

Tapped phone conversations of Juve general manager Luciano Moggi speaking about refereeing apointments for games has led to the entire board resigning.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=367641&cc=3436
http://eurosport.com/football/serie-a/2005-2006/sport_sto883135.shtml

Interesting stuff.

Juve are just plain dodgy in my books.

soniq

12-05-2006, 01:27 AM

Omg!!

Unregistered

12-05-2006, 01:32 AM

there are two other threads concerning Juve and Moggi in this very same section of fbtz. ;)

deviant

12-05-2006, 01:58 AM

this already being dicussed in here http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51485&page=4

May261999

12-05-2006, 02:17 AM

zoom77

12-05-2006, 12:54 PM

I also heard that today or tomorrow there will be news that some Juve's players(buffon and cannavaro!!!) were betting through an illegal bookie, that's not a problem but the problem is if they bet ON Juve. lol....why don't they just bomb the club, wouldn't that be easier?

Good news today though from : Football Italia

Juve to bring back Platini

Juventus legend Michel Platini will have a part to play in the future of the club, according to reports in Italy.

The Italian giants are on the verge of starting a new era after the whole board of directors resigned on Thursday in the aftermath of the telephone interception saga which has rocked the Italian game.

As a result, the Old Lady are looking for a replacement for chief operating officer Antonio Giraudo and director general Luciano Moggi.

Jean Claude Blanc and Carlo Sant’Albano are in contention to step in for Giraudo, but there are concerns that their lack of experience in the football world could be a handicap.

Yet John Elkann, an Agnelli whose family hold a controlling share in the outfit, wants Platini to be of assistance.

Although the Frenchman can’t be handed a full-time position as he is in the race for the top FIFA job, Elkann reportedly wants Platini to act as an advisor.

It’s unclear at this stage whether the Frenchman would accept such an option even if the close relationship he had with Gianni Agnelli, Elkann’s grandfather, could be a decisive factor.

Replacing Moggi seems to be a much simpler task for the Italian giants with two men in the race to succeed the transfer chief.

Former Roma director Franco Baldini is believed to be in pole position, even if Chievo’s Giovanni Sartori is also in the frame.
=====

The reason the board is resigned is that John Elkann (Fiat vise president) and Agnelli's grand son when he show up monday he said: we are here to show our support for the club and Capello" and he said nothing about Moggi or the board. I guess that was a sign for the board that the owners doesn't support them. But the timing is very bad, they could've waited till next Sunday at least.

Nelly

12-05-2006, 01:32 PM

Holy cow.......I mean.......wow........

Ok, I was a bit young when it happened, but can anyone old enough to remember recall if this is in any way similiar to what happened back in the late 70s and early 80s that led to mass player suspensions (including 1982 hero Paolo Rossi)?I think that was due to a gambling scandal.At least where Rossi was concerned,I'm sure it was gambling and match fixing amongst certain players.

Dogme

12-05-2006, 07:50 PM

That's good news about Platini :) At least something good is happening at last.

leoni11

12-05-2006, 09:00 PM

The 4 players that placed bets on their own games are supposed to be Buffon, Maresca, Iuliano och Chimenti... blah

5 refs and 6 assist refs are suspected to give yellows or red cards to players so that they should be suspended the followin week when they played Juve.
Those refs are De Santis, Rodomonti, Gabriele, Dondarini and Bertini.

People from other teams then Juve (Giraudo and Moggi) are also involved in this betting story Milan(Leonardo Meani), Lazio (Claudio Lotito) and Fiorentina (Andrea Della Valle, Diego Della Valle and Sandro Mencucci) is also under suspicion (or whatever its called) in this Napels hearing.

Moggi is to be heard on monday :| - get this over and done with and everything out in the open.. and by that i mean EVERYTHING! how embarrasing it may ever be..

I got this from a swedish fan site called svenskafans.com .. uhm.. im kinda embarrased... :(

barcalove

12-05-2006, 09:31 PM

im not sure if you want everything out in the open do you? it might result in juve losing their serie a title (if they get it) and demotion to serie b ala milan and lazio in the 80s.

leoni11

12-05-2006, 09:44 PM

matidbr

12-05-2006, 09:49 PM

im not sure if you want everything out in the open do you? it might result in juve losing their serie a title (if they get it) and demotion to serie b ala milan and lazio in the 80s.

It's all embarassing for real Juve fans. I really can't believe how so big club like Juve must buy matche, like they couldnt win them without cheating.
If this all sad story is true and Juve would be found guilty then they should be punished properly. Even if it means losing titles (i am not afraid of that, we can win them again) or relegation (still, I can stand it). I want pure Calcio and pure Juventus, believe me.
I am still too shocked to say more.

FJ!

narduch

12-05-2006, 09:58 PM

I really can't believe how so big club like Juve must buy matche, like they couldnt win them without cheating.

The strange thing about these incidents is that they often involve strong teams.

Last season, Genoa was pretty much assured of promoting to Serie A. They got caught paying off one of the worst teams in the league (it was Vicenza or Venezia).

leoni11

12-05-2006, 10:04 PM

Its gonna be interesting to see how the team reacts to all of this on sunday ..

zoom77

12-05-2006, 11:48 PM

yes i would take a relegation to a lower series if that ment that it would all be out in the open rather than staying in serie A and leave some of the suspicions to be draged out every time there is a penalty or anything else remotely in favour of juventus.

I 100% agree.

It's all embarassing for real Juve fans. I really can't believe how so big club like Juve must buy matche, like they couldnt win them without cheating.

What ever happened to the accused is innocent till proven guilty? I would wait and see. Moggi was involved in the same situation before when he was in Napoli, why did they let him go if he was guilty??.

I hope all this is not true but i still would wait till Juve proven Guilty, then i accept the punishment whatever it is. Even though i hate to see all that history get damaged because of some irresponsible people who doesn’t appreciate the club reputation.

Lets wait and see. The news is just too much to digest.
The only victim here is the Calcio.

chauchey

13-05-2006, 04:42 AM

im not sure if you want everything out in the open do you? it might result in juve losing their serie a title (if they get it) and demotion to serie b ala milan and lazio in the 80s.
I think that Juve going down to the seria b would be what it takes for soccer fans to have confidence in the league officials and clubs again. But their will probably be a big stink, and then it'll die down, and people will grumble, and then it'll go away. Just like most things to do with high up officials doing shady things.

djcash50

13-05-2006, 05:14 AM

Serie B? Wait, now it's more like Serie D!!

http://it.sports.yahoo.com/12052006/4/juve-oscilla-baratro-possibilita-serie-d.html

Could you imagine the exodus if the team gets relegated? We'd lose everyone! Buffon and Emerson would go to Real Madrid! Del Piero to Arsenal! Trezeguet to Barca! Ibrahimovic to Chelsea! Nedved would retire in a cloud of shame and Camoranesi would probably go to Inter!

OR, Moggi would have all the evidence destroyed and the case will never get to trial. Juve would then win 18 trebles in a row after Moggi threatens to kill every ref that calls against juve!

THE END!!! (guys, we're screwed.....:()

rollosan

13-05-2006, 05:33 AM

let's put all this back in perspective and let's be realistic: juventus will not go down. It didn't happen in 1980 (juventus-bologna was under investigation. Bologna went down. Milan-Lazio under investigation and they both went down. Juventus players were involved as well, but nothing happened) and it won't happen now. It's like Real Madrid going down. No way. They are too powerful at a state level.

Seriously, if you read the names and the transcripts of the other people involved in the scandal, they are people just complaining about stuff going on. Nothing as bad as Moggi, Pairetto, etc. asking for favours and referees.
Not sure what's happening with the betting stuff. Hard to believe though. Buffon and Cannavaro have much more money of the equivalent guys in the 80's... I don't believe that.

jpm085

13-05-2006, 07:28 PM

Time to clean up. Altough Relegation for the teams is going to far.It isn't the fault of the fans ,the sponsors .. . They should put the persons who did wrong in jail and take all their money off and give it to charity.

Grttz,

deviant

13-05-2006, 08:12 PM

im stunned I dont know what to say.

zoom77

13-05-2006, 08:21 PM

Buffon: I did nothing wrong

Gianluigi Buffon was interrogated by public prosecutors today and, although he did bet on sports, insists it was not done illegally.

“It is true that I placed a few bets, but only where it was allowed,” explained the Juventus goalkeeper in the Turin magistrate’s office today.

“I stopped in the autumn of 2005, when it was banned for players to gamble. I have always respected the rules, both legal and disciplinary. I only ever bet on foreign football and other sports, because in Italy I was not allowed to do anything else.”

Buffon was named as one of the players under investigation by the Parma public prosecutor for a betting ring.

There were newspaper rumours these allegations could cost him his place in Italy’s World Cup squad, so the former Parma shot-stopper was eager to clear his name quickly.

It is legal for Italians to bet on Internet sites for overseas football, but at the start of this season all players were banned from betting on any sports to avoid the possibility of a conflict of interests.

Source: Football Italia

=====

It isn't the fault of the fans ,the sponsors

It isn't, that's true but we're not above the law. And if a justified punishment should reach the club, we'll stand by the club.

In every family there is the good and the bad, you don't go change your name because one of your family members is a thief.

This all could end up being nothing, not likely after the board resignation, but still could be nothing compare to what the media is pouring everyday. Or could be even worse and the scandal reach milan, lazio and fiola as they say.

One thing i would like to see though, if proven guilty, anyone did fix games ref, or admin....should go to Jail so it'll stop forever. and if all this is not true and the media took a small story and blow it up like that, they should go to jail too.

Someone must go to Jail.

kaku

13-05-2006, 09:47 PM

This is a very sad story for italian football, and football in general.There will be a shadow over serie A for a long time.

But if mozzi is proven guilty of fixing games for juventus, relegation is the only appropriate punishment.That would be the biggest surprise in italian football's history though:eek: .Ofcourse mozzi himself should be severely punished and serve time in prison.

Tomorrow's matches will be really interesting.Let's see how this story will affect juventus.

aminoacid

14-05-2006, 07:01 AM

not gonna use this thread to bash certain inter fans - let the jealous losers be.

I want to comment on the whole acceptance (and ADVERTISING) of betting in football in general, not just at Juve who have the betandwin.com advertisements all over the stadium. I hope they get rid of them and disassociate themselves from this cancer that's afflicting ALL sports. I don't care if the gambling companies are "legal" or not-the whole notion of gambling is really ruining the integrity of the sport. Ithink i read last week that ManU are going to put a gambling company's ad on their shirts for the next four years and it seems that gambling ads and sponsorship of clubs is accepted in europe where its unheard of in the US.

All if this being uncovered just before Juve are set to take the title is definitely fishy as hell - it will be a time to clean house but I think Juve will manage to survive this somewhat intact.

Vito Corleone

14-05-2006, 08:31 AM

May I remind you that no one has been proved guilty for anything. As long as this is the case, this Juve trashing is worth nothing to me.

Here's a clip from Giraudo's statement on 5.5.

With reference to the first, Marcello Maddalena, a rigorous and strict magistrate who is the Chief Prosecutor of Turin, requested that the case be dropped on the grounds that after objective analysis of the documentation, not only is there nothing to confirm the initial grounds for investigation, but on the contrary one can confirm that there is evidence to suggest the opposite, indicating an absence of irregularity and of any steering of the refereeing selection process by Pairetto. In his conclusion, moreover, he confirmed in writing that, after all the assessments had been carried out, there wasn’t even “the faintest hint” of anything that would lead to a continuation of the inquiry. This is the truth that emerges from the Prosecution’s documents

We have a chance to win 29th scudetto today, and that's all that matters.

Supa

14-05-2006, 09:03 AM

Here's a clip from Giraudo's statement on 5.5.

With reference to the first, Marcello Maddalena, a rigorous and strict magistrate who is the Chief Prosecutor of Turin, requested that the case be dropped on the grounds that after objective analysis of the documentation, not only is there nothing to confirm the initial grounds for investigation, but on the contrary one can confirm that there is evidence to suggest the opposite, indicating an absence of irregularity and of any steering of the refereeing selection process by Pairetto. In his conclusion, moreover, he confirmed in writing that, after all the assessments had been carried out, there wasn’t even “the faintest hint” of anything that would lead to a continuation of the inquiry. This is the truth that emerges from the Prosecution’s documents

Friend, if that is the best defense Juventus can come up with, that their hometown prosecutor says they are innocent, then they are in a world of trouble.

jpm085

14-05-2006, 01:21 PM

It isn't, that's true but we're not above the law. And if a justified punishment should reach the club, we'll stand by the club.

In every family there is the good and the bad, you don't go change your name because one of your family members is a thief.

This all could end up being nothing, not likely after the board resignation, but still could be nothing compare to what the media is pouring everyday. Or could be even worse and the scandal reach milan, lazio and fiola as they say.

One thing i would like to see though, if proven guilty, anyone did fix games ref, or admin....should go to Jail so it'll stop forever. and if all this is not true and the media took a small story and blow it up like that, they should go to jail too.

Someone must go to Jail.

If you're brother kills someone, then you don't want to go to jail because it isn't your fault that he killes someone. You're brother did something wrong not you.

zoom77

14-05-2006, 01:45 PM

If you're brother kills someone, then you don't want to go to jail because it isn't your fault that he killes someone. You're brother did something wrong not you.

This is different. Those people represented the club’s name.

The law against individuals is different than the one against firms and companies. Even debts doesn’t just die when a person die, because when he signed he didn’t sign by his name he signed by the company’s name. When moggi was making those phone calls he wasn’t making them as moggi but as one of the managers of Juventus.

That’s how it is. That’s what the football family decided and agreed about from so many years ago.

It’s true that you can’t be 100% sure about the honesty of a person before you hire him, and it’s true that one employees’ mistakes could ruin the reputation of your company or cost you more than you can bare but that’s a risk every company in the world takes every time they hire someone. And you can always hope that people will be responsible enough to think before they act.

I loved this club and it's history and legends since i knew football and no relegation nor punishment nor any person would take that love AND RESPECT away from me or from any other True Juve fan. and believe THEY ARE A LOT.

There is always a good side for any crisis, ours is yet to come.

cavenaghi

14-05-2006, 02:06 PM

If this case is managed like the doping trial I don't think you have to worry about serie B, C or D ;)
Everybody knows that Juve is guilty. The problem is that I don't think any team (even the beautiful Roma :rolleyes: ) in this league can't be charged for something. Every team has problems: obscured transfert transactions, false accounting, doping, corruption (referees, players), friendship between clubs, political pressures... And if you add the worst federation in the world, you understand that everything must be cleaned up.
So stop being paranoids and ask for a global clean up instead of defending your own little interest! Juve deserves to be punished more than the others cause they benefited of this system more than the others. That's all!
There is an entire league to save, not just one club!

jpm085

14-05-2006, 04:21 PM

This is different. Those people represented the club’s name.

The law against individuals is different than the one against firms and companies. Even debts doesn’t just die when a person die, because when he signed he didn’t sign by his name he signed by the company’s name. When moggi was making those phone calls he wasn’t making them as moggi but as one of the managers of Juventus.

That’s how it is. That’s what the football family decided and agreed about from so many years ago.

It’s true that you can’t be 100% sure about the honesty of a person before you hire him, and it’s true that one employees’ mistakes could ruin the reputation of your company or cost you more than you can bare but that’s a risk every company in the world takes every time they hire someone. And you can always hope that people will be responsible enough to think before they act.

I loved this club and it's history and legends since i knew football and no relegation nor punishment nor any person would take that love AND RESPECT away from me or from any other True Juve fan. and believe THEY ARE A LOT.

There is always a good side for any crisis, ours is yet to come.

I know but it is unfair to the fans and that is the point. It is like North Korea getting sanctions but the people can't do about that because one mad person is leading so wrong.

PS : I think there will be no sanction to the clubs.
PS :what are given titles worth? they are just so worthless like unclean titles. Hard to say but the truth.

deviant

14-05-2006, 07:14 PM

doc_delli

14-05-2006, 07:37 PM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060514/capt.0b50c26ac5c949fe999e1031a1008e44.italy_soccer _xtp101.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060514/capt.1cdba7e8d79f4bf7a2c242b85fdc35fd.italy_soccer _xtp112.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060514/capt.55a0c17f01294bb8882adc381c458189.italy_soccer _xac102.jpg
you are actually cheering this? italian football is in deep shit because of your team of cheaters and you are happy?
you are so pathetic.
prepare to kiss goodbye to a couple of "titles", learn something from your colleagues in this thread and send us a postcard from the serie B.

deviant

14-05-2006, 07:45 PM

you are actually cheering this? italian football is in deep shit because of your team of cheaters and you are happy?
you are so pathetic.
prepare to kiss goodbye to a couple of "titles", learn something from your colleagues in this thread and send us a postcard from the serie B.
:D hmm Inter fan most definitely

doc_delli

14-05-2006, 08:53 PM

:D hmm Inter fan most definitely
you really don't get it, do you? how can anyone follow italian football with any kind of passion now? it's spoiled for everybody!
but this is not your problem, right?
when Juventus will go down, what are you going to do juve/real fan? switch to Lyon? Or maybe both Arsenal and Barcelona?
have a nice party with the other 5 morons that believe that there is something to celebrate

leoni11

14-05-2006, 09:17 PM

@doc-delli. have you read about here in the forums? or did you just sign up today and want to vent out your anger...
SOME of us actually said that we want it all to get out in the open and make the italian football reliable and clean again.

And since the serie A ended today and not last week we as supporters wants to express our happines with the players who we think did a splendid job.

(yes im talking for every juvefan, im sorry for that i will get back to 'I-mode')

Note: players.. yes, some of them are involved in another investigation but nothing has been proven yet and until that they are innocent, right?

Also.. on anther noticie.. this talk is all about last season so an entire season past bye without anyone revealing anything about their knowledge about this until there is one small possibility that Milan would grasp the scudetto? I know, might be a long shot.. but at least think about it...

thats my answer to why im celebrating this scudetto :)

aminoacid

14-05-2006, 10:00 PM

well said leoni -
the timing of this, for something that has been allegedly going on for 2 years, is very interesting.
having these allegations just come out is very unfair to the players and fans - it means that people have known about them for quite sometime and just wanted to use this to their advantage -- btw Berlusconi demanded both titles just today :rolleyes:

doc_delli

14-05-2006, 10:25 PM

@doc-delli. have you read about here in the forums? or did you just sign up today and want to vent out your anger...
SOME of us actually said that we want it all to get out in the open and make the italian football reliable and clean again.

I know, that is a normal reaction from someone who is believing in its sport and is betrayed. In fact I wasn't talking about them, only to the guy who was cheering. Juve is risking an awful lot and Italy will be the laugh of the football world.

Also.. on anther noticie.. this talk is all about last season so an entire season past bye without anyone revealing anything about their knowledge about this until there is one small possibility that Milan would grasp the scudetto? I know, might be a long shot.. but at least think about it...

thats my answer to why im celebrating this scudetto :)

I can't believe you are saying this. And even if it was, how this would make things better?
Anyways, celebrate what you want and keep living in wonderland with Alice, I won't disturb you anymore.

leoni11

14-05-2006, 10:32 PM

where in my post did i say it would be better :confused:

aah nevermind.. im happy in wonderland - great bunch of people here ;)

djcash50

15-05-2006, 12:35 AM

Take our titles away and throw us in the 2nd league, we'll still follow our squadra! I would love to see Juve break the record for most points earned in the Serie B. As for Italian football, Genova, Totti, Berlusconi, and Inter Milan caused more disruptions (buying a promotion, spitting, political interest, an all foreign squad costing Millions to make that wins nuthin) to Italian football than Juve have with this scandal. Even if we are guilty, EAT IT!!!!!!!!

We're gonna enjoy this one like it's 1999!!

PS - Berlusconi lost the scudetto and he lost the seat of power in Italy, he's in no position to ask for nuthin.... We'll give him 2 twinkies instead. He can EAT IT too!!

zoom77

15-05-2006, 05:00 AM

Berlusconi demanded both titles just today

Capello answered him today when he said to him " don't forget Berlusconi that the scripts mentioned someone works for Milan". Berlusconi by asking for titles today just proved again and again that he is a dirty person thatcare about nothing but himself, and someone like that won't stop at anything to achieve his goals.

Today Trapattoni and Lippi was there to support and stand by their love......JUVENTUS. salute to them both

I almost cried when i saw them and saw the Great Alex and others shaved their heads.

ps: Did someonoe saw the 2 penalties that Roma denaied today? or the imaginary penalty that Milan took? See no evil hear no Evil ha? It doesn't matter because WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS.

malicia

15-05-2006, 07:06 AM

As for Italian football, Genova, Totti, Berlusconi, and Inter Milan caused more disruptions (buying a promotion, spitting, political interest, an all foreign squad costing Millions to make that wins nuthin) to Italian football than Juve have with this scandal. Even if we are guilty, EAT IT!!!!!!!!

That is absurd, look beyond your silly defensiveness. If this scandal turns out to be accurate, then it's a huge amount of harm to Italian football in general, much bigger than Totti spitting etc. Already the referees for the WC have been recalled...

And if this is true, relegation has to happen to ALL teams involved. It happens already to the smaller teams with less money and connections and it must happen to the larger ones regardless. And yeah, some people should face formal charges.

Berlusconi is an ass. I wish he wasn't owner of Milan. And Milan got relegated once in 1980 with Lazio, they should know better...

And if the Scudettos were bought, that's nothing to cheer for, but who knows at this point...so cheer away. But don't pretend this is just another anti-Juve thing.

The timing that seems curious to me is that if they've known for ages, why announce this right before the concentration for the WC????

djcash50

15-05-2006, 06:39 PM

That is absurd, look beyond your silly defensiveness. If this scandal turns out to be accurate, then it's a huge amount of harm to Italian football in general, much bigger than Totti spitting etc. Already the referees for the WC have been recalled...

We're celebrating because what happened is out of the fans hands and out of the players hands. We are proud that, in spite of all that has happened, we atleast get to see our players make the best out of the situation and celebrate. And since NOTHING is proven yet, we're not guilty yet.

BTW, Lazio, Milan, and Fiorentina are involved too, Juve can't take all the credit for this scandal :D.

Here is a link of ALL the matches in question:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Altro_Calcio/Primo_Piano/2006/05_Maggio/15/19partite.shtml

narduch

15-05-2006, 06:43 PM

Here is a link of ALL the matches in question:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Altro_Calcio/Primo_Piano/2006/05_Maggio/15/19partite.shtml

You do realize that a major part of the scandal is refs carding players a week before they were set to play Juve, so that they would be suspended for the Juve match.

phat

16-05-2006, 01:20 AM

Some how I see Lazio and Milan joining Juve. They do have a history of match fixing.

FORZA JUVE!

narduch

16-05-2006, 01:26 AM

Some how I see Lazio and Milan joining Juve. They do have a history of match fixing.

There are a number of teams implicated, including Fiorentina.

The only problem I have is that Juventus deserve a much harsher punishment than all the other teams involved in the scandal.

For example, if Fiorentina deserves relegation to Serie B for their part of the scandal, Juve would deserve Serie C1. It would just seems fairer that way.

phat

16-05-2006, 01:41 AM

There are a number of teams implicated, including Fiorentina.

The only problem I have is that Juventus deserve a much harsher punishment than all the other teams involved in the scandal.

For example, if Fiorentina deserves relegation to Serie B for their part of the scandal, Juve would deserve Serie C1. It would just seems fairer that way.

To be honest, Moggi and Giraudo may deserve harsh punishments. But this team (PLAYERS) was the best in Serie A and derserve nothing less then to be Champions.

tashi

16-05-2006, 04:22 AM

To be honest, Moggi and Giraudo may deserve harsh punishments. But this team (PLAYERS) was the best in Serie A and derserve nothing less then to be Champions.

how can you judge 'best in seria A' if it's true what is siad and the good players were out with suspension when playing juve it's not deserveed at all.

juve playing less formidable opponenets is comparable to me dribbling around kids in the park. you think you deserve to win when you can run aroudn them 5 times and then score?

Simon323says

16-05-2006, 04:23 AM

To be honest, Moggi and Giraudo may deserve harsh punishments. But this team (PLAYERS) was the best in Serie A and derserve nothing less then to be Champions.

If the allegations prove true, one cannot say beyond doubt that Juventus was the best team in Serie A now or in the past five years. If they ran away with the league, that would be one thing, but they came out ahead by 3 points. That's well within the margin of error.

Unfortunately, by the nature of sport, the misguided fallacy of one can invalidate the honest work of many. That's why it's a team, you succeed together, you fall (hard) as one. Moggi was as much a part of Juventus as Capello or Del Piero. If you don't like that, try tennis. Or golf.

ELLADA

16-05-2006, 07:03 AM

I know it is weird for a non-Juve fan to imagine anyone celebrating a title in such circumstances. But do not worry, you get used to it after a couple of years, like here in Greece. :)

zoom77

16-05-2006, 03:17 PM

Roma just joined the teams that are under investigations in the scandal.

kaku

17-05-2006, 12:30 AM

BTW, Lazio, Milan, and Fiorentina are involved too, Juve can't take all the credit for this scandal :D.

And you believe it's something to cheer about?:rolleyes:

zoom77

18-05-2006, 03:30 AM

One of the greatest articles since this whole crisis started.

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoId=52910

narduch

18-05-2006, 04:17 AM

One of the greatest articles since this whole crisis started.

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?contenutoId=52910

He was doing okay until he said Juve shouldn't be punished because its not fair to their players and fans. Tell that to Genoa fans.

It's truely amazing what Goal.com will allow to be printed. Further proving my theory that it is generally useless as a source of information. Just a bunch of soccer fans ranting. I already visit forums to read that.

phat

18-05-2006, 06:05 AM

how can you judge 'best in seria A' if it's true what is siad and the good players were out with suspension when playing juve it's not deserveed at all.

juve playing less formidable opponenets is comparable to me dribbling around kids in the park. you think you deserve to win when you can run aroudn them 5 times and then score?

Do you watch Serie A? Cause it does not seem like you do. If you do not, please don't comment.

zoom77

18-05-2006, 02:17 PM

He was doing okay until he said Juve shouldn't be punished because its not fair to their players and fans

I agree about that. Some of Juve fans feel that way. But the article contains a lot of organized logical thoughts, and you can't dismiss it all just because of some wrong(from our point of view) ideas. If you can't accept it all, don't deny it all. That's what i always say.

I myself believe that the club and the players don’t deserve the punishment for what a stupid person did irresponsibly HOWEVER a punishment must be taken to set an example and to stop ruining the game in the whole country. I believe the worst thing that can happen to Juvenuts’ reputation is not to get any punishment at all even though I feel it won’t be fair for the players whom their performance (that all the professional critics applaud it in the recent past) got nothing to do with the scandal.

I’ll repeat what I said in another forum. Even though nothing has been proven yet but sometimes the reaction of the accused prove him guilty even before the trial. The resignation of the entire board and the silence that they took against all the accusation indicates that they did “something” wrong. You don’t have to be a genius to figure out that the club owners, the Agnelli’s family (lawyers), must’ve asked them if it’s true or not. And the fact that there was no support from the owners toward the board at all proves that the answer to the question was Yes.

I hate Moggi very much for what he did to us. And if I have to chose between the titles and CL finals and the players (including Nedved) that Moggi brought to the club and between not being in this crappy situation where the club reputation is under investigation, I would chose the latter in a heart beat. May god damn him and damn everyone had anything to do with this whole thing.

Again, someone MUST go to prison.

djcash50

19-05-2006, 01:12 AM

Again, someone MUST go to prison.

This is going in my sig.

deviant

19-05-2006, 10:45 PM

you really don't get it, do you? how can anyone follow italian football with any kind of passion now? it's spoiled for everybody!
but this is not your problem, right?
when Juventus will go down, what are you going to do juve/real fan? switch to Lyon? Or maybe both Arsenal and Barcelona?
have a nice party with the other 5 morons that believe that there is something to celebrate
PARRTTTTTYYYYYYYYYY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEA BITCH SHAKE EM UP.

zoom77

20-05-2006, 05:00 AM

Inter joins the party.

Hopefully the headaches that their fans are giving us all over the net will stop now.

http://www.goal.com/it/articolo.aspx?contenutoid=54419

he's talking about the refs for their CL games against Valencia - Werder Bremen - Anderlecht.

If i only feel like laughing!

This is going in my sig.

You're welcome my friend. And with all what's going on i feel like they should be hanged not just go to jail.

They ruined the whole Calcio. The marcato is dead. No players wants to come to Italy, not when no one knows anything. Juve is losing money last week like crazy, if it was an oil company it would've gone out of buisness. They should be hanged.

zaffo

22-05-2006, 02:03 PM

Moggi launches Galliani broadside Monday 22 May, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luciano Moggi, the man at the centre of the alleged match-fixing allegations, says he’s been ambushed by Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani.

In his first interview since the scandal erupted, Moggi has looked to defend himself while attacking Galliani and also now former FIGC chief Franco Carraro.

“I was ambushed,” he told the Quotidiano Nazionale newspaper. “It all started last September when I went to see [Milan owner Silvio] Berlusconi at Palazzo Grazioli.

“He offered me a job at Milan. I was surprised but also honoured, I told him that I would think about it.

“We were only at the start of the season and at that time I could only think about Juventus,” he continued.

“But we all know what the Milan owner is like, it doesn’t take too much for him to get excited. He obviously told Galliani of the idea.

“Then, two weeks after my meeting with Berlusconi, the FIGC were sent the documents from the Turin magistrates with the taped telephone conversations between myself and other figures in the Italian game.

“Carraro then informed Galliani, who obviously suggested to the ex-Prime Minister to be careful before he made any decisions, saying that it was perhaps best to forget about me because of the enquiry.

“It all began with that unfortunate meeting with Berlusconi.”

Moggi also blasted Carraro, who resigned as President of the Italian Football Federation earlier this month after being criticised for his handling of the present situation.

“He knew everything,” the former Juventus director general continued. “We know where the first pieces of information came from.”

Moggi is at the centre of a probe which threatens to see his former club demoted to Serie B after a number of his telephone calls to the refereeing designators of 2004-05 led to suspicions of sporting fraud.

“I didn’t invent this type of football, the system has always worked like this,” he maintained. “The designators have received calls on a daily basis from clubs for years.

“And they were certainly not friendly calls because everyone always had a reason to complain about something.

“I, like my colleagues, just wanted to make sure that our games were refereed by serious professionals, impartial ones.”

Meanwhile, Galliani is expected to resign as President on the Italian Football League on Wednesday.

*Dont know the source as i found this on another forum.

But if true this might save Juve's ass