Should Spurs Get CL

[Dirtycheat]

do you think it is fair that spurs miss out on CL football next season, more money from sponsors and a chance to attract better players to the lane, if arsenal win CL.

[opm1s6]

go barca!

[BicOfBorg]

Im missing something here, if Spurs are fourth then they are automatically in the CL quali or not? Whats Arsenal winning hte Cl got to do with it.

And if Arsenal manage to snap up 4th place through there efforts and Spurs´s mistakes then thats ok, its the way it is.

[chriswvtr]

Im missing something here, if Spurs are fourth then they are automatically in the CL quali or not? Whats Arsenal winning hte Cl got to do with it.

And if Arsenal manage to snap up 4th place through there efforts and Spurs´s mistakes then thats ok, its the way it is.

Because after the farce of last year UEFA have now decided that if a team doesn't qualify for champs league but wins it they will be allowed to defend their trophy at the expense of the lowest placed qualifier. That would be Spurs.

:D Theres gonna be riots in North London if Arse win CL but dont finish fourth :eek:

[mcding82]

do you think it is fair that spurs miss out on CL football next season, more money from sponsors and a chance to attract better players to the lane, if arsenal win CL.
I dont think its fair at all considering they only changed the rule last year for liverpool as they had won it five time and they where the exception. But now this year looks as if the arse win the CL then it would be us that are the execption. Which i think is a load of old Bolloxs. and yes there probably will be riots

[BicOfBorg]

Because after the farce of last year UEFA have now decided that if a team doesn't qualify for champs league but wins it they will be allowed to defend their trophy at the expense of the lowest placed qualifier. That would be Spurs.
:

OOH I see, what a nightmare situation!!:eek:

On one side I´d like to see Arsenal win the CL on the other I´d rather see Spurs in Europe than Arsenal, mainly because Spurs has English players and Arsenal virtually none.

[thelovepizza]

Although I agree last year was a farce (due to the divvering) Why not do exactly what they did last year, Arsenal go in at the very bottom and spurs get what they deserve too. What do UEFA have against 5 english teams, thats the only reason they have it seems.

[AmplifiedtoRock]

To be honest, it IS fair. UEFA made the rule because Liverpool last year proved that a team could finish outside of the automatic Champions League spots in their domestic league and still win the competition. A rule is a rule and that's how it is. Is it hard luck for Spurs? Certainly. But they will still get their chance at European Football in the UEFA Cup. If Arsenal win the Champions League, they have every right to be given the opportunity to defend their title, regardless of domestic league standing.

Although I agree last year was a farce (due to the divvering) Why not do exactly what they did last year, Arsenal go in at the very bottom and spurs get what they deserve too. What do UEFA have against 5 english teams, thats the only reason they have it seems.
The rule is not just for England. It is for any country. If Barca were to finish 5th in Spain, the 4th place club would be bumped down to the UEFA Cup.

[thelovepizza]

[/QUOTE]

The rule is not just for England. It is for any country. If Barca were to finish 5th in Spain, the 4th place club would be bumped down to the UEFA Cup.[/QUOTE]

Yeh sorry i didnt make that very clear. I meant any country having 5 teams in it (it just happens to be england the last too times) I remember reading Blatter's apparent explaination and he was on about 5 teams being too many. I can understand the rule is now in place, and it has to be followed, i just can't understand why denying one team a place is better than allowing both teams to compete, sure the logistics of placing an extra team in might mean they have to fill in afew extra forms.

It feels like an injustice to me.

EDIT: opps, i mean Lars-Christer Olsson, not blatter!

[BicOfBorg]

Thought about it, I hope Barca win and believe they will. That Spurs come 4th.

Another idea :-They should kick Man u into the Eufa cup after the way they performed this Cl season.

[AmplifiedtoRock]

Yeh sorry i didnt make that very clear. I meant any country having 5 teams in it (it just happens to be england the last too times) I remember reading Blatter's apparent explaination and he was on about 5 teams being too many. I can understand the rule is now in place, and it has to be followed, i just can't understand why denying one team a place is better than allowing both teams to compete, sure the logistics of placing an extra team in might mean they have to fill in afew extra forms.

It feels like an injustice to me.

EDIT: opps, i mean Lars-Christer Olsson, not blatter!
By allowing an extra side from one country in, another side from a smaller country will probably end up missing out. It is most simple then to keep a side out from the same country as the champion. You have to admit, it is much more fair to keep the 5th team from a country out of the competition then it is the 1st or 2nd from another country.

[Jason]

If spurs wanted assurance of CL football the rules clearly laid out beforehand said that they'd need to place 3rd. They haven't, so they have no assurance. Simple as.

[Ziegler1988]

The rules were in place at the start of the season and everyone knew what would happen if the same scenario arose. Tottnumb have no grounds to argue if we win the CL and pip them for the CL spot.

[gunner4life]

The rules were in place at the start of the season and everyone knew what would happen if the same scenario arose. Tottnumb have no grounds to argue if we win the CL and pip them for the CL spot.

Amen and Amen

[realGaurab]

By allowing an extra side from one country in, another side from a smaller country will probably end up missing out. It is most simple then to keep a side out from the same country as the champion. You have to admit, it is much more fair to keep the 5th team from a country out of the competition then it is the 1st or 2nd from another country.
Agree with you. Also there had been an accusation that UEFA were more in favour of bigger footballing countries. The current decision makes smaller footballing countries happier.

[mosesmalone]

The problem with UEFA's system is that there are too many ifs. They make it so that teams are dependent on other teams in the league and not on themselves. Right now you have to finish in the top three to be guaranteed a Champions League spot, fourth to get a UEFA Cup spot, and fifth to get an Intertoto spot. However, if the stars align, an eight-placed team could get an Intertoto Cup place. Why have all the scenarios, though? Just set a system in stone and stick with it.

As it is, there are coefficients in place, yet UEFA chooses to ignore them. Should a team from Andorra magically win the Champions League and finish second in its league, it's perfectly alright to get an extra team in the Champions League the following season - but it's not ok for England to get another team? Pfft.

I guess we'll just wait for UEFA to amend the rules (again) in a couple of years because the TV revenue is crap. :rolleyes:

[SoGKarimi]

Spurs deserve to play. Simple as that.

[Unregistered]

I said it last year when UEFA decided to do Liverpool a favor, and I say it again. The new rule is bullshit. If a team isn't among top 4 in the domestic league, they shouldn't be allowed in CL, period. Look at WC Finals. Up until France's terrible performance in 2002, the winner was automatically in the next WC. But it looks like UEFA does not want to learn from others' experience.
Just because you won something a year ago, doesn't mean you are still good enough for CL. In this case, Arsenal are clearly not good enough for CL as they sit 5th in domestic league and are like a zillion points behind Chelsea.


imo, If you want to defend your CL title you MUST do well enough to be in top 4. If you're not, Booo fucking Hooo! ;)

[Real JamesO]

A rule's a rule...sorry Spurs, better luck next year. Besides, they're going to choke against the Hammers so the point is moot, anyways.

[AmplifiedtoRock]

As Jason said earlier, if you are playing the Premiership and want to be assured of a Champions League place, finish third. The new rule couldn't be much clearer on that.

As far as not performing well enough domestically to merit playing in Europe, I'm pretty sure that point is rubbished when you WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE! If you are good enough to win that competition, what difference does it make how you performed domestically? There are a million different reasons why a club might perform better in Europe than in their domestic league. There are also numerous cup competitions that qualify teams for European play. Are we forgetting that after reaching the FA Cup final in 2004, MILWALL qualified for the UEFA Cup. Middlesbrough will be playing European football next year if they win the UEFA Cup, despite finishing in the bottom half of the table.

UEFA's regulations are relatively clear as to who qualifies and who doesn't. They have also made it ABUNDANTLY clear that they intend to give the Champions League winner the chance to defend their title. Let us not forget that, though we may be looking at a situation where a team finishing outside of a Champions League place in their domestic league wins the competition again, it is still a 1 out of 100 situation. The new rule was put in place just in case this doomsday scenario was to play out again.

Now, with all that being said...let's watch the final day of the Premiership to find out if this conversation is even necessary.

[Yiannis]

I said it last year when UEFA decided to do Liverpool a favor, and I say it again. The new rule is bullshit. If a team isn't among top 4 in the domestic league, they shouldn't be allowed in CL, period. Look at WC Finals. Up until France's terrible performance in 2002, the winner was automatically in the next WC. But it looks like UEFA does not want to learn from others' experience.
Just because you won something a year ago, doesn't mean you are still good enough for CL. In this case, Arsenal are clearly not good enough for CL as they sit 5th in domestic league and are like a zillion points behind Chelsea.


imo, If you want to defend your CL title you MUST do well enough to be in top 4. If you're not, Booo fucking Hooo! ;)

Yeah i agree with you mate.Winners of the Cl should not be allowed to challenge for it next year if they haven't qualified from their league.Who are they anyway?Just winners of the most prestigious cup of the world.To hell with them!What a pity Everton didn't qualify for the CL group stage last August:rolleyes: The world missed that glorious chance to see pure and flawless football from Duncan Ferguson and his gang.

[mosesmalone]

Amp, no one is arguing that the rules are not clear. What we're saying is that the rules are incredibly dumb. A team can finish in sixth one year and not taste Europe - not even the Intertoto Cup - yet the next season they can finish in eighth, have a worse team, compile fewer points, but still get into Europe. How is that even remotely logical?

And I don't think the Champions League is, nor ever has been, the end-all when determining the best team in Europe. Villarreal got to the semi-finals of the tournament this year. Does that mean that they're the third or fourth best team in Europe? Hell no. Heck, being in eighth place in Spain at this point is probably generous considering their performances.

The Champions League winning team plays a third of the number of games in the tournament than it does domestically - half of which are in a knockout format. Theoretically, a team can draw every game in the Champions League, winning the final only on penalties, and still be declared the best team in Europe. That doesn't sit well with me. I think playing 38 games, home and away, is much more conducive to determing the quality of a team than a knockout draw.

[saurabh]

The team that has won a tournament has every right to defend it. Arsenal should be and will be defending their crown if they win it. Imagine a World Cup without the defending champions! Teams that work hard and win the tournament deserve the privilege.

[Yiannis]

I think playing 38 games, home and away, is much more conducive to determing the quality of a team than a knockout draw.

You're right about that but in the CL the football level is superior to anything else and you tend to play against the best teams in the world and not against Le Mans,Alaves,Brum and Cologne(with all due respect to these teams of course).Also, at the start of the 05-06 season there was a managers' meeting somewhere in Europe and every top manager was there and i remember Maureen saying that they discussed a lot of things and all the managers came to the conclusion that CL's level is superior to even World Cup's one.;)

[Unregistered]

The team that has won a tournament has every right to defend it. Arsenal should be and will be defending their crown if they win it. Imagine a World Cup without the defending champions! Teams that work hard and win the tournament deserve the privilege.


Again, bullshit. Sorry! When you win a cup this year, doesn't necessarily mean you are good enough to be in that same championship NEXT YEAR. Even WC Winner has to go through qualifying phase. Fifa changed that a few years ago. You are not exactly mr. current events, are ya mate?! ;)
And World Cup is a much more important tournament than CL, so saying "oh CL is more important than League" is just not valid.

The example of Villareal proves my point. They went to the semis in CL, but won't be in it next year because they simply aren't good enough. No one here will miss Villareal next year in CL(nothing against Villareal. I actually like them a lot, but face the facts).

If you are not good enough to qualify, then you are not good enough to be in that tournament. This new rule to give the winning team a chance just shows UEFA's weakness to face the pressure from CL winning clubs, who are generally big boys of Europe who want to guarantee their next year's place.

[AmplifiedtoRock]

Amp, no one is arguing that the rules are not clear. What we're saying is that the rules are incredibly dumb. A team can finish in sixth one year and not taste Europe - not even the Intertoto Cup - yet the next season they can finish in eighth, have a worse team, compile fewer points, but still get into Europe. How is that even remotely logical?

And I don't think the Champions League is, nor ever has been, the end-all when determining the best team in Europe. Villarreal got to the semi-finals of the tournament this year. Does that mean that they're the third or fourth best team in Europe? Hell no. Heck, being in eighth place in Spain at this point is probably generous considering their performances.

The Champions League winning team plays a third of the number of games in the tournament than it does domestically - half of which are in a knockout format. Theoretically, a team can draw every game in the Champions League, winning the final only on penalties, and still be declared the best team in Europe. That doesn't sit well with me. I think playing 38 games, home and away, is much more conducive to determing the quality of a team than a knockout draw.
I see your point Moses and we could sit here all night discussing whether or not the winner of a competition should be given the right to defend their title. I am of the school of thought that says any club who wins a Cup deserves a chance to defend it, i.e, Liverpool were still the Champions of Europe until they were eliminated by Benfica. If others think differently, that's fine as well. It should be noted by this crowd that, despite whatever their opinion is, UEFA are from the same school of thought that I am and all of their rules and regulations will be that way.

As far as how the rest of Champions League and UEFA Cup fields are selected, this too is a difficult and unfortunately grey area. First and foremost (and obviously as well), UEFA have an enormous slant towards the strongest footballing nations (England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France). These countries are granted more spots according to league form based purely on their reputations. In addition to those spots, they also award Champions League spots for Cup winners in certain leagues. Add to that the UEFA Cup winner and you have the entire field. In the first qualifying round for the Champions League I believe there are over 100 teams competing. This is always going to be a very complex and confusing situation. I guess that until someone can come up with a better system, it will remain as is.

My final point will be that there can never be garauntees as to how a club will perform from one year to the next. Again, that is a flaw in the system, but flaw that is almost impossible account for.

I don't even know what I'm saying any more so I will stop.

[fshroyer]

Spurs deserve to be in, and if Arsenal win they definitely deserve to defend. Celtic is going to win the CL next year anyway so what does it matter? :D

[Vip]

Im missing something here, if Spurs are fourth then they are automatically in the CL quali or not? Whats Arsenal winning hte Cl got to do with it.

And if Arsenal manage to snap up 4th place through there efforts and Spurs´s mistakes then thats ok, its the way it is.

I'm surprised that you didn't follow the whole story last CL with Liverpool. The decision to allow them to defend the title was known after they had won it ... and it was an exception which, starting this year, had the rules clearly stated to avoid that more than 4 teams from the same country can play in CL.

When Real Madrid won the CL title in 2000, they had finished 5th (http://idd00939.eresmas.net/futbol/liga2000.htm). But in this case, it was "agreed" internally in Spain that Real Madrid had the right to defend their title ... and punished Zaragoza with it. Unfairly may I add.

Last year, there were 2 direct rivals competing for the spot. The FA didn't want to unfairly punish Everton, in which could had been the 2nd time that Liverpool indirectly foks their CL rights.

This year, once again, it involves 2 English teams ... that have their own rivalry. But in this case, there are rules to follow.

As far as how the rest of Champions League and UEFA Cup fields are selected, this too is a difficult and unfortunately grey area. First and foremost (and obviously as well), UEFA have an enormous slant towards the strongest footballing nations (England, Spain, Italy, Germany and France). These countries are granted more spots according to league form based purely on their reputations. In addition to those spots, they also award Champions League spots for Cup winners in certain leagues.

That isn't exact. UEFA uses coefficients to rank how clubs from each national association perform, and based on those coefficients is that the national associations earn the different # of spots for European Cups ... and the stages at which they enter the competition.

As to the Cup Winners of some nations playing CL ... all used to play the Cup Winners Cup. Since the CWC was eliminated, those teams qualify to UEFA Cup, not CL.


.

[stcronaldo]

Amp, no one is arguing that the rules are not clear. What we're saying is that the rules are incredibly dumb. A team can finish in sixth one year and not taste Europe - not even the Intertoto Cup - yet the next season they can finish in eighth, have a worse team, compile fewer points, but still get into Europe. How is that even remotely logical?

And I don't think the Champions League is, nor ever has been, the end-all when determining the best team in Europe. Villarreal got to the semi-finals of the tournament this year. Does that mean that they're the third or fourth best team in Europe? Hell no. Heck, being in eighth place in Spain at this point is probably generous considering their performances.

The Champions League winning team plays a third of the number of games in the tournament than it does domestically - half of which are in a knockout format. Theoretically, a team can draw every game in the Champions League, winning the final only on penalties, and still be declared the best team in Europe. That doesn't sit well with me. I think playing 38 games, home and away, is much more conducive to determing the quality of a team than a knockout draw.


the rules are not dumb, whats harder coming 4th in a 20 team league comprised of domestic teams or coming 1st in a 32 team competition comprised of europe's finest??
and rules are rules, uefa stipulated that from the beginning of the season, that only the top three would go to UCL if a team below 4th place wins the CL, instead of spurs moanin about how stupid the law is, its their own fault for not finishin in the top 3 to guarantee CL football

[ELLADA]

As long as AEK winds up in the seeded pot for the 3rd qualifying phase, I do not care. For that to happen, a Barcelona CL win would be much appreciated, thank you very much :)

Also throw in Hearts finishing in 2nd place in Scotland, and Fiorentina finishing in 4th in Serie A. Just to be sure.


EDIT: YAY! I was a little late on them results, so it looks like AEK is guaranteed to be in the seeded pot! YAY! Provided we actually finish in 2nd place.

EDIT2: As for this discussion, every year, is it exactly the same problem. I guess the more things change, the more they will stay the same here at fbtz.com :)

The top leagues are definitely not slanted. In fact, they are rewarded because they are consistent every single.. and not just the top 3, 4. but all through the board. Sure, England could have been a bit penalized by Everton and Manchester United's early departures, but Bolton and Middlesbrough have picked up the slack. Every year, England, Spain & Italy are heads and shoulders above every one else. Every once in a while, you will have a lesser country do well, like Romania this year, and they should (and will be) rewarded with more numbers. If they do not continue winning, they will fall back down in the rankings.

I think the UEFA system is quite equitable to everyone involved. Everyone just criticizes and there are no offers of a solution, simply because there are not any better.

For any stats lovers, once again, I leave the magic link... This is a terrific site, with everything you need to know about UEFA Club competitions.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/index.html

[Yusuf]

A rule is a rule and that's how it is. Is it hard luck for Spurs? Certainly.
Yes rule is rule but it could also be said last year, rule is rule why allow pool. It is highly unfair to spurs if they manage to finish fourth. I think everyone, the pools, the arses, the mancs recognise how difficult it is to finish fourth after 45, 50 games a season (although spurs only played 40 :p)

[tringo99]

Surprisingly I actually feel that it would be unfair.

It would be nice to have as many English teams as possible and Tottenham certainly have the squad to challenge in the Champions League.

Plus it would be great to beat Tottenham in another Cup. :p

[jlimty]

The example of Villareal proves my point. They went to the semis in CL, but won't be in it next year because they simply aren't good enough. No one here will miss Villareal next year in CL(nothing against Villareal. I actually like them a lot, but face the facts).

If you are not good enough to qualify, then you are not good enough to be in that tournament. This new rule to give the winning team a chance just shows UEFA's weakness to face the pressure from CL winning clubs, who are generally big boys of Europe who want to guarantee their next year's place.

Not trying to start a fight here but what you don't realise is that maybe the fact that a team (Liverpool/Arsenal/Villareal) are doing well in the CL perhaps their excursions in Europe are affecting their league performances? I know for a fact that in recent league matches before their semi-final clash both Villareal and Arsenal rested players because they deemed the CL more important. Perhaps its not that they're not good enough to qualify through the league, but they'd rather try winning it than finish high up in the league. 20 years from now people will remember the winners of the CL, not who came in 2nd/3rd/4th in the league.

It was the same thing with Liverpool last year. We rested players for the CL and as such our league results suffered. Unless you're bankrolled by Abramovich its highly unlikely your squad will have enough quality to win both the league and the title at the same time (even Chelsea haven't done it :D)


When Real Madrid won the CL title in 2000, they had finished 5th (http://idd00939.eresmas.net/futbol/liga2000.htm). But in this case, it was "agreed" internally in Spain that Real Madrid had the right to defend their title ... and punished Zaragoza with it. Unfairly may I add.

Last year, there were 2 direct rivals competing for the spot. The FA didn't want to unfairly punish Everton, in which could had been the 2nd time that Liverpool indirectly foks their CL rights.

This year, once again, it involves 2 English teams ... that have their own rivalry. But in this case, there are rules to follow.


The rules were different then as UEFA clearly stated that if a team won the CL but finished outside the top four (i.e. Real Madrid) the country's FA will have to decide who will be the fourth team to represent their country. The Spanish FA went with Real Madrid and that was perfectly fine as it was their choice.

The big debate that went on last year was because the English FA are run by a bunch of wank*rs who decided to hell with the rule, we'll send 5 teams instead. The rules were clear but the FA with all their collective geniuses promised Everton the CL spot before we even won the cup. After that extraordinary final the FA were then caught in a spot. How can you not let Liverpool defend their title? So they decided that we don't care, we're sending in 5 teams although the rules were quite CLEAR. If you wanna blame anyone blame those muppets at the FA ;)

[Kan]

Want Arsene Wengers view on the situation ;)

clickclick (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4523051.stm)


Some highlights;

Wenger also backed the Football Association's decision to give the fourth Champions League place to the club finishing fourth in the Premiership.

and

"The European Cup has been a complete cup competition - like Millwall reaching the FA Cup final - and maybe we will have Coventry in next year's final," he said.

Will your views stay the same if your club wins the competition Arsene?

[wlq0903]

Spurs should get the chance, the most exciting team in EPL.

[Unregistered]

Not trying to start a fight here but what you don't realise is that maybe the fact that a team (Liverpool/Arsenal/Villareal) are doing well in the CL perhaps their excursions in Europe are affecting their league performances? I know for a fact that in recent league matches before their semi-final clash both Villareal and Arsenal rested players because they deemed the CL more important. Perhaps its not that they're not good enough to qualify through the league, but they'd rather try winning it than finish high up in the league. 20 years from now people will remember the winners of the CL, not who came in 2nd/3rd/4th in the league.


Oh Wow! You know, 20 years from now no one is gonna remember who participated in World Cup 2006. So what do you say they just toss a coin and announce a winner and save people from the pain of actually going through the WC?! Oh I got an even better idea. Since no one is gonna remember who came 2nd or 3rd in the league, why the hell do they even play?!? I'm sorry mate. But that's just the worst possible reason or logic you could ever come up with. ;)
Domestic league is the qualifying phase for next year's CL. If you want to be in CL, you have to qualify. That's just as simple as that. Again, they changed WC rules so the winner couldn't get an automatic place. Why? Because winners aren't always good enough for THE NEXT competition. Is that so complicated?! You cannot say CL is more important than WC.
This just proves that UEFA has no balls, but Fifa still has maybe one left!

[Yusuf]

This just proves that UEFA has no balls, but Fifa still has maybe one left!
LMFAO.

[varun]

rule was made before season started so if anyone had any problems they should have made that clear earlier, the fact that the rule is stupid is no excuse now.

If arsenal win the CL then life sucks for spurs fans :)

BUT if they have the balls to take on uefa then they can go to the sporting court and they have a very good chance that they'll win as the only previous such incident is last season so it will help spurs.

[mosesmalone]

the rules are not dumb, whats harder coming 4th in a 20 team league comprised of domestic teams or coming 1st in a 32 team competition comprised of europe's finest??
and rules are rules, uefa stipulated that from the beginning of the season, that only the top three would go to UCL if a team below 4th place wins the CL, instead of spurs moanin about how stupid the law is, its their own fault for not finishin in the top 3 to guarantee CL football

I don't know? You tell me. If Arsenal win the Champions League this season and finish behind Tottenham, then it will be the third time in the last seven years that a Champions League winner has finished outside the top four qualifying spots. That tells me that domestic leagues are not as easy as they might appear, and that winning the Champions League does not mean that you're the greatest team on the planet. Surely the Champions League winner, the best team in Europe, should be able to come in fourth in their domestic league, right? How can you be the best team in Europe if you're not even the fourth best team in your own country? And what's harder, finishing fourth in your league, or finishing back down in the table and winning a cup that none of the big teams care about?

I mentioned Villarreal earlier and I'll mention them again since I follow the club. Villarreal won three games in the Champions League this season - from the group stages through to the semi-finals - and still finished in the final four. If you win three games in a domestic league, you'll be on an express train to the second division.

UEFA should let teams placed first through fourth enter the Champions League, the next three the UEFA Cup, and the cup winner files into the Intertoto Cup (obviously I'm speaking of the top leagues - coefficients would still play a role), which would be a pseudo-Cup Winners' Cup. As of right now, UEFA only gives one automatic bid per confederation into the Intertoto Cup, so cutting that spot and giving it to the cup winner would not increase the number of teams. In fact, there would likely be fewer teams, as a number of cup winners already sit in a qualifying spot for the Champions League or UEFA Cup. Winner of the Intertoto Cup, now for cup winners, advances to the UEFA Cup. In the process, you cut a lot of the fluff, actually reward teams for finishing well in their league, and make me happy. Currently, UEFA should be boxed, packaged, and stocked on toy store shelves, because as of right now, trying to figure out UEFA is like trying to play a board game with a child - every two minutes there's some wanky-ass new regulation.

[jlimty]

Oh Wow! You know, 20 years from now no one is gonna remember who participated in World Cup 2006. So what do you say they just toss a coin and announce a winner and save people from the pain of actually going through the WC?! Oh I got an even better idea. Since no one is gonna remember who came 2nd or 3rd in the league, why the hell do they even play?!? I'm sorry mate. But that's just the worst possible reason or logic you could ever come up with. ;)
Domestic league is the qualifying phase for next year's CL. If you want to be in CL, you have to qualify. That's just as simple as that. Again, they changed WC rules so the winner couldn't get an automatic place. Why? Because winners aren't always good enough for THE NEXT competition. Is that so complicated?! You cannot say CL is more important than WC.
This just proves that UEFA has no balls, but Fifa still has maybe one left!

Dude.. chill :) I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that since nobody remembers who came in 2nd/3rd in the league doesn't mean that its not important. Let me put it this way. If your team had a good chance to win the CL (ala Arsenal who are in the final) but are also outside the qualifying CL spots, which would rather aim for? Winning the CL or qualifying for the CL through the league? Seeing as most clubs want to win trophies, perhaps that would be their number one priority. Thats why you see them suffering in the league.

For example Villareal rested they're star players in one of their league matches before their semi-final against Arsenal and they lost the game (if my memory is correct :D) If they didn't have a chance of winning the CL, they wouldn't do this and maybe their results in the league would have been better :)

[stcronaldo]

I don't know? You tell me. If Arsenal win the Champions League this season and finish behind Tottenham, then it will be the third time in the last seven years that a Champions League winner has finished outside the top four qualifying spots. That tells me that domestic leagues are not as easy as they might appear, and that winning the Champions League does not mean that you're the greatest team on the planet. Surely the Champions League winner, the best team in Europe, should be able to come in fourth in their domestic league, right? How can you be the best team in Europe if you're not even the fourth best team in your own country? And what's harder, finishing fourth in your league, or finishing back down in the table and winning a cup that none of the big teams care about?


none of the big teams care about??? all the big teams care more about the champions league than their local league. juventus and milan made it their priority to win the UCL a opposed to their league, madrid also made it their priority and said it was more important than the domestic league and chelsea manager mourinho expressed the same sentiment.

I mentioned Villarreal earlier and I'll mention them again since I follow the club. Villarreal won three games in the Champions League this season - from the group stages through to the semi-finals - and still finished in the final four. If you win three games in a domestic league, you'll be on an express train to the second division.

but they didnt win the champions league did they?


the fact is that leagues are different to cups, not necessarily harder to win.
in leagues you can grind out victories against the crap teams and not win any games against the big teams and still win the league because of better consistency. you can't do that in the champions lge, you gotta be on top of your game every game, one loss and you're out, one loss of concentration, one stupid mistake, one injury and all of a sudden, its goodbye for a year. in the league if you fuck up on one game, you've got another 37 to fix up your problems

winning the ucl is just as difficult to win as winning the domestic leauge if not harder, look at arsenal, we've never won the CL, but we've done the league countless times, how many teams do you know that have won the CL but never won their domestic league??? now look at the reverse.