Juventus probe leads to big investigation...

[Nelly]

....into match fixing involving numerous clubs and individuals,Lazio and AC Milan included.All relating to 19 games played last season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4765173.stm

[chauchey]

well...i cant help but believe that this is more common than people think.

[revelz]

i heard juve might be relegated to serie b....pissed

[tifoso-inter]

as if anything will happen to juve.

they are the mafia, they get away with everything and smile about it later.

there is currently a petition going around to put juve in Serie B.

vote if u think match-fixing is bad.

http://www.petitiononline.com/r100s2/petition.html

[Nelly]

Italian FA withdraw their referee from the World Cup along with two assistants.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/4768353.stm

[Supa]

Wow, this is crazy. Well at least it looks like the Italian authorities are doing their best to clean house.

[deviant]

i heard juve might be relegated to serie b....pissed
no fucking way there hasnt been concrete proof that they fixed anything.:confused: wheres your source.

[Handoyo]

no fucking way there hasnt been concrete proof that they fixed anything.:confused: wheres your source.
Its true bro
i will try and find it for you its going around the non-Juve club fourms and theres like over 4 milion signs or sumshit appriently

[chauchey]

I just signed the one above, and i was #11649. :)

They where my pick to win the CL this year...I was so misled. :(

[Harv]

no fucking way there hasnt been concrete proof that they fixed anything.:confused: wheres your source.

This from the source that Nelly posted above:

"If Juventus were to be found guilty of "sporting fraud", they could be stripped of their title win and face demotion to the second tier Serie B.

In the last major scandal to hit Italian football, AC Milan and Lazio were demoted to Serie B in 1980 following a match-fixing and illegal gambling investigation."

Of course investigations are still on going, so there will be no concrete proof until all details are reported.

[Wiilm]

no fucking way there hasnt been concrete proof that they fixed anything.:confused: wheres your source.


The most explosive revelations come from transcripts of tapped phone conversations between Moggi and various officials, several of which were leaked to the Italian media this weekend. They appear to put Moggi in a decisive position with the placing of certain referees with specific fixtures.

Witness this account of a conversation on February 9, 2005 between Moggi and the Federation’s Paolo Bergamo, responsible for allocation of referees.Moggi: “Right, here’s what I was thinking.”

Bergamo: “Let’s hear it. Let’s see what matches up with what I was thinking. Who have you put where?”

Moggi: “Right, I’ve arranged Inter-Roma, Juve-Udinese, Reggina-Milan, Fiorentina-Parma, and Siena-Messina. I’ve gone with [referees] Bertini, Paparesta, Trefolini, Racalbuto; I’d put Tombolini to start with, but he made a right cock-up of things with Lazio. He gave that penalty…”

Bergamo: “I wanted to make Tombolini miss a weekend, because he made that mistake. If you never punish people…”

Moggi: “If you don’t punish Collina and Rosetti, all the rest will think they’ve got carte blanche to make whatever decisions they want.”

Italian newspapers also printed transcripts of a conversation after a surprise Juventus defeat at Reggina in November 2004, between referee’s observer Pietro Ingargiola and Tullio Lanese, the president of the Italian referees association.

Ingargiola is reported as saying: “I’ve never seen anything like it in my life. Moggi and Giraudo go in, and Moggi starts really threatening him, with his finger right up to the referee’s eye. He was shouting at the linesman too, ‘You’re an absolute disgrace, not giving that penalty, how dare you?’ I pretended not to see anything and went to the toilet.”

A further leaked segment of conversation had Moggi telling an unidentified woman of the same incident: “I locked the referee (Paparesta) and linesmen in the toilet and took the keys away with me to the airport.”

Reaction across Italy has been of outrage. Massimo Moratti, the main shareholder of Internazionale, said: “It’s a chilling thing. Let’s hope that it’s less serious than it seems. There was a sense that things weren’t working as they should, but that they are apparently this rotten is shocking.”

The new Italian president, Romano Prodi, talked of “serious turmoil” and demanded the sport root out corruption.
[the times]

[vemerez]

WOW!!:eek: Relegated huh? That would shake up the Seria A a bit. I dont know what to think of this really - juventus fans and supporters would still follow them, so I dont even think a relegation would punish them to the point of despair. They wouldn't recieve as much TV time maybe?? I don't know what kind of punishment is suitable if found guilty.

Hmm makes you wonder, but seriously what about the officals? They just get off scott free as well or what? Seems like someone isnt to concerned over this in the FA to me.:mad:


And I agree with chauchy, i think its waaaaaay more common than people think. Kind of like a doorman at a club making extra money by letting people in for the right price without telling the club you know. Its just "shocking" when its done blatently.

[narduch]

The more and more I read on this, the more it looks like Juventus, Milan, Lazio and a few other teams will be relegated.

[aminoacid]

i just found out about this on the fox sports site, a bad idea since it also gave a bunch of spoilers so i will declline to send the link -

People have always been complaining about juve getting preferential treatment - which is more jealousy than actual fact. In any case it's especially worrying that the entire Juventus board has resigned.

even if juve get relegated, they can play in the champions league I hope..UEFA and the italian FA are not one in the same.

tifoso-inter: you sound like a jealous cry baby. even if juve and milan get relegated, your notoriously underacheiving team still won't win anything. f'ing black and blue losers.

[narduch]

People have always been complaining about juve getting preferential treatment - which is more jealousy than actual fact. In any case it's especially worrying that the entire Juventus board has resigned.


You're just another blind Juve-bot.

This has nothing to do with jealousy. This entire scandal pretty much vindicates all the fans of Serie A soccer who have been complaining about Juve's preferential treatment for years.

The way thing are going, Juve will most likely be docked points, as well as relegation. I wouldn't count on European soccer next year if I were you.

[tifoso-inter]

Mancini summed it up best when he said this...

"These are things everyone was talking about in the bar and there was no evidence, but now..."

[Nelly]

People have always been complaining about juve getting preferential treatment - which is more jealousy than actual fact. In any case it's especially worrying that the entire Juventus board has resigned. I don't think the board resigned because people were jealous of them:)

They resigned because they've been caught cheating........I would say the facts speak for themselves.Italian football has always been corrupt,but this is taking the piss.

[sweed]

Questions to everyone...

Do you really think Juve will be relegated to Serie B?
if so, will the players leave?
Would the same things happen at Milan or Lazio or any other club involved?

[gunnersfan]

Luciano Moggi (juve's general manager) has quit!! wtf is going on??

[Nelly]

Akibo is that you? ^

Why you called gunnersfan :confused:

sorry if I missed something obvious.

[leoni11]

Questions to everyone...

Do you really think Juve will be relegated to Serie B?
if so, will the players leave?
Would the same things happen at Milan or Lazio or any other club involved?

I dunno - hopefully not
Uhm.. maybe..
and lastly yes it would cause if juve goes down so does also milan and lazio cause they are also involved in this shit..
BUT noone knows nothing for sure until everything is investigated.

[matidbr]

This is what Alex Del Piero said after today's match.
Not posting source link as there are some serious spoilers. :p

Nonetheless, there is talk of a worst case scenario in which Juventus would be relegated if the investigation reaches a conclusion that there were irregularities. Would Del Piero stay in Turin even if it meant playing Serie B football?

“My bond with Juventus is very strong and I have a love for this club that goes beyond many other considerations. It’s no coincidence I stayed this year even after some difficult moments.”

Legend.

[jak914]

even if juve get relegated, they can play in the champions league I hope..UEFA and the italian FA are not one in the same.

There are also alligations that the match fixing was involved with a match in the champions league. If this is true I doubt they will be able to compete in Champions League next year. Or at least I hope not if this accusation is to be found true. Just a pitty to see this happen on such a big scale.


I would have to say though if Juve, Milan, and Lazio are found to have done this match fixing they should all be stripped of European spots and relegated to Serie B. No questions asked.

On the topic of the petition it is no longer available to view so i cant sign:(

[leoni11]

would be wierd if we got to play in serie B AND champions league at the same time... ah well lets wait and see what the investigations and all this leads up too *sigh*

[narduch]

If Juve is relegated, I doubt they'll compete in the CL next year.

When a team is automatically relegated, their league position is severely lowered.

Take for example Genoa from last season. They finished first on points last year, but because of their own scandal, they were made the last place team.

http://www.rsssf.com/tablesi/ital2-05.html

[djcash50]

I would have to say though if Juve, Milan, and Lazio are found to have done this match fixing they should all be stripped of European spots and relegated to Serie B. No questions asked. (

If this is true, INter fans can rejoice, they will be awarded 2 scudettos for gettin 3rd place. Congratulations :rolleyes:

[Nelly]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4985738.stm

[care]

They are incredible yes, big Juventus. Look this clip, really sucks everything from Juve Club !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pclfHSRmaeI

[joekidd]

well, i just checked the above mentioned video and most of the stuff is pretty convincing. even though i am a juve fan as well but i know deep down inside that juve get a lot of calls going for them in games against the smaller teams. I especially remember the game against bologna last season (the hilites of which are included in the above video clip) as i watched the whole game and i couldnt help but feel sorry for bologna players as they were robbed of every single decision in that game. if you watch the clip, it will remind you of what happened that day.

[tywyn]

Unfortunately Italy is riddled with corruption, and this is just another example. If the allegations are true then they should be relegated, when they couldn't beat Arsenal in the CL they resorted to cheating, so these accusations come as no suprise.

[kaku]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4985738.stm
"Juve's market value has now fallen by over £40m, or 20%, in the last week.":eek:
Do i need to comment on that?I think it speaks volumes.

[zaffo]

If Relegated i believe that Juve will be strong enough to return to Serie A the following season. (I hope).

At Least we will still have the real "god" at the club if we are in Serie B...

FORZA JUVE - FORZA DEL PIERO

[aminoacid]

that video is a bunch of anti-juve propaganda horse sh*t.

any video which shows a few flagrant fouls and debatable refereeing decisions can be made about any team in any sport

[zaffo]

They are incredible yes, big Juventus. Look this clip, really sucks everything from Juve Club !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pclfHSRmaeI

maybe u should read this:

No Justification For The Crying Game!

In this Goal.com Guest Editorial, Gavino Nieddu takes issue with the sore losers and conspiracy theorists so swift to attribute Juve's consistent success in Serie A to alleged bribery and corruption rather than better footballers and superior footballing tactics ...
Photo

That’s it, I’ve had it. You people (magazines, newspapers, highlight shows, websites) have succeeded in ruining what was once a credible sport. I love Serie A but the lure you have all helped create around the league has reduced it to a joke. I live in Canada; the majority of my friends are hockey, football (North American), basketball, and baseball fans. They laugh at me when they see me get worked up about Italian soccer because we are now seen as whiners and babies. I hate to say it but they are right. No other fan of any other sport cries as much as the Italian soccer fan.

The Yankees dominate, yet no one blames the umpires. The Maple Leafs are in a 40 something year drought, yet it is never assumed to be the referees' fault. Juve take a commanding lead in the scudetto and suddenly blame needs to be placed somewhere...anywhere! You’ve tried the referee talk, the steroid attempt, and now the little clubs are even lending a hand, rather than just accepting that Juventus are Italy’s strongest squad. This has become almost too childish to discredit...almost.

I watch a lot of soccer. I do admit to be a sympathizer with Juventus especially in Europe but my squad is Sardinia’s Cagliari. When I watched Juve-Cagliari last May in the Stadio Delle Alpi I was in the away section wearing a Zola jersey waving a Sardo flag. So you can take your assumptions of whatever biases I may have towards Juve and set them aside. They do not apply.

This year I needed to satisfy my own curiosity. Was Juve really that dominant or was there some truth to the non-stop accusations? So I analyzed, and I wish you guys would too before making these accusations. I wondered if there were differences in disciplinary action between the big clubs. So I counted them. I counted 1 for every yellow and 2 for every red. I saw Inter had 70, Milan had 52, and Juve fell between the two with 61. In my opinion, over 35 games (so far) 9 cards don’t make a

So it wasn’t a “bookings” thing. “Maybe Juve was getting a lot more penalties than the others” I told myself. So I counted. Juve scored a whopping 3 all season, Inter 5, and Milan 7. These differences could alter the standings somewhat. Can we still say that Juve is being favoured though? They have the least; remarkably Milan is again in the best position. So I asked myself “Is it possible that Juve has faced far fewer penalties than the others?” seeing as I had heard this claim in the past. So I counted. Juve have faced 3, Inter and Milan both faced 2. No real significant difference here but it certainly can’t be said that Juve are favoured seeing as their position is once again less favourable than Milan’s or Inter’s.

We all know there is more to this, so let’s at least try to count the times that points have been acquired dubiously. This is difficult to quantify since it is somewhat opinion based, but it comes up too often to be ignored. Remember that Del Piero goal that was offside against Udinese? That was a win for Juve that should have been a tie, I can admit it. That means Juve got an extra 2 points undeservingly that game. I also noticed a tie against Cagliari that has been deemed corrupt because of the “questionable” 5 minutes of injury time needed to draw. Frankly, despite being a Cagliari fan even I understood the 5 minutes. There were penalties (against Juve) and red cards that day that pushed the game farther into injury time, it happens. Let’s count it though, just to humour the Anti-Juventino. So they got an unjust point for a total of 3 extra points. Now to be fair, we have to mention the obvious penalty on Ibra that the referee “didn’t see” at Chievo costing Juve a possible win. That day they took home 1 point and left 2 on the field. In the end their point surplus is a staggering 1 after 35 games.

Not a single refereeing decision all year cost either Inter or Milan points. Go ahead, try to bring up an example and I’m sure FIFA regulations will disagree. I did however, find a few occasions where the opposite occurred. Remember Milan’s dubious 5 minutes of injury time resulting in an Inzaghi goal? It was favouritism for Juve, why not Milan then? Chock up a 2 point surplus for Milan. Inter though is far worse. I saw a number of questionable goals/penalties, and wrongfully called back goals earn them wins against Lecce, Cagliari, and Treviso and a tie against Lazio for a surplus of 7 points. Disagree? Go ahead but good luck proving Juve were more favoured than either of these two clubs.

Not too long ago the doping issue arose. All Juve’s coaches were arrested and embarrassed. The media was all over it. Then an Italian court of law found each of the accused not guilty and Goal.com didn’t find it interesting enough to write about. So that attempt didn’t work. Now we’ve got a new accusation. Italy’s “minnows” are letting themselves be beaten by Juve and playing their hearts off against Milan to “give” the scudetto to Juve. This one is by far my favourite.

“Why did Messina play so hard?”, maybe to avoid relegation, genius. Why did Treviso play so hard against Juve? Why did Cagliari do the same? Why do teams like Roma, Lazio, Chievo and Fiorentina always seem to have the game of their season against Juve? Juve are public enemy number 1 in Italy because they are Italy’s most successful team and every team that faces them brings their A game. Yet somehow it’s these very squads who have given Juve an edge? This one is beyond stupid.

I suggest you think back to the days when Miccoli played for Perugia under Juve ownership. Perugia managed to eliminate Juve from the Coppa Italia and tie them in the Scudetto. Guess who scored? Miccoli did in an attempt to get called up to the big squad. The little guys always try to impress against the big guns and no one is bigger than Juventus.

Nice try “paisan” but you’ll need a more credible story next time. I’m sure we’ll all hear it soon enough. It is too hard for an Italian soccer fan to digest that their team is not the best. I’ll be the guy that leads by example. My team is in the relegation battle. They rarely finish a game with 11 players on the pitch and as a result have the most bookings in Serie A with 105, and have the most booked player in the league (Daniele Conti). If they wind up relegated you won’t hear me crying about officials though, I guarantee it. But then I’m a man.

Gavino Nieddu

[malicia]

maybe u should read this:


Ok, that's an interesting article and his point would be valid except it's not just about "conspiracy" or "whining" anymore. There's taped conversations and evidence that they've collected, not just against Juve, but other teams too. It's about more than just the small ref-related incidents dicussed in that article. Hell, those anti-mafia prosecutors are getting involved.

It could be a much bigger disgrace. :(

[ZeekLTK]

If Relegated i believe that Juve will be strong enough to return to Serie A the following season. (I hope).

At Least we will still have the real "god" at the club if we are in Serie B...

FORZA JUVE - FORZA DEL PIERO

From what I heard Juve will be relegated to Serie C, so it doesn't matter how good they are, they won't be able to get back to A until 2008-2009, and no European competitions until 2009-2010 (assuming they are able to promote twice in two years and then finish at the top of Serie A as soon as they get back, which might not happen).

This was posted on BigSoccer as the likely punishments to be dealt out from this:

Banned for life:
Moggi, Giraudo, Mazzini, Bergamo, Pairetto, De Santis, Lotito.

Juventus:
Lose 2004-05 title, last place in 2004-05, consequently lose this year title and (for a norm that I do not exactly remember about having enjoyed benefits from previous illegal conduct) last place for this season.
In other words. Juve in C1.

Lazio:
Last place in 2004-05 and (for the same norm as above) points of penalization.
Lazio in B at -9

Milan:
Milan is more involved that it may seems, but given the secondary position of the manager involved will come out less damaged.
Milan will not get 2004-05 last place but a retroactive 10 points at the begin of 2005-06 season, therfore may lose CL positioning, but will stay in A.
Milan in A at -5

Fiorentina:
This is the most confusing of positions, given that they were "blackmailed" throgh reffing during the year, but they "gave in" nonetheless.
Last place in 2004-05 and penalization points
Fiorentina in B at -5

Minor sanctions for the other teams involved (although Siena may be relegated too.)


But on a side note I couldn't be happier that this is happening to Italy, of all countries. :D :D :D

[malicia]

But on a side note I couldn't be happier that this is happening to Italy, of all countries. :D :D :D

Why? It's nothing to be happy about happening anywhere IMO. At least they're finally dealing with it. Unless you just have some irrational hate of Italy and Italians in general.

[zaffo]

Ok, that's an interesting article and his point would be valid except it's not just about "conspiracy" or "whining" anymore. There's taped conversations and evidence that they've collected, not just against Juve, but other teams too. It's about more than just the small ref-related incidents dicussed in that article. Hell, those anti-mafia prosecutors are getting involved.

It could be a much bigger disgrace. :(

I only posted that article towards the video that was posted hence me quoting the video link.

I know thats it much more involved that with the Moggi's phone calls being tapped. but this article was just to clear up that the way Juve are treated by the refs is not as great as it seems...with Inter and Milan being given the better end of the stick.

[zaffo]

Banned for life:
Moggi, Giraudo, Mazzini, Bergamo, Pairetto, De Santis, Lotito.

Juventus:
Lose 2004-05 title, last place in 2004-05, consequently lose this year title and (for a norm that I do not exactly remember about having enjoyed benefits from previous illegal conduct) last place for this season.
In other words. Juve in C1.

Lazio:
Last place in 2004-05 and (for the same norm as above) points of penalization.
Lazio in B at -9

Milan:
Milan is more involved that it may seems, but given the secondary position of the manager involved will come out less damaged.
Milan will not get 2004-05 last place but a retroactive 10 points at the begin of 2005-06 season, therfore may lose CL positioning, but will stay in A.
Milan in A at -5

Fiorentina:
This is the most confusing of positions, given that they were "blackmailed" throgh reffing during the year, but they "gave in" nonetheless.
Last place in 2004-05 and penalization points
Fiorentina in B at -5

Minor sanctions for the other teams involved (although Siena may be relegated too.)

The only reason why Milan will get out being demoted divisions is becasue they pritty much own the media and shit.

If Juve and Lazio go down then so should the others. Fairs Fiar

[Thorz]

Juve is cheating long time ago. Remember the scandal when several of their players and the medic stuff were judged for doping during the 90's. This is not a surprise, almost all their latest titles and championships (the CLs won on the 90's anyone?) have been dirty won.
I hope that Italy punish this people. But they are very strong and I see it difficult they been taken off the dirty won titles of the last years :(

[jak914]

But on a side note I couldn't be happier that this is happening to Italy, of all countries. :D :D :D
That is just an ignorant ass comment. Why would you wish something like that on a place. Sad to see this happen anywhere.

[narduch]

That is just an ignorant ass comment. Why would you wish something like that on a place. Sad to see this happen anywhere.

I can't speak for Zeek, but maybe he's alluding to the fact that the Italian players may be distracted at the World Cup, allowing the US to beat them.

I didn't read anything malicious from his statement, especially with the 3 smilies.

[zaffo]

Originally Posted by ZeekLTK
But on a side note I couldn't be happier that this is happening to Italy, of all countries.

The US aint excatly the cleanest sporting nation either...Baseball,Athletics,NFL,Basketball...etc how many scandels have hit these sports directed towards AMERICAN athletes and teams..;)

[Supa]

The US aint excatly the cleanest sporting nation either...Baseball,Athletics,NFL,Basketball...etc how many scandels have hit these sports directed towards AMERICAN athletes and teams..;)

You mean the Chicago Black Sox scandal of 1919? Other than that I have never heard of any match fixing scandal in MLB, NBA, or NFL.... :confused:

[kaku]

The only reason why Milan will get out being demoted divisions is becasue they pritty much own the media and shit.

If Juve and Lazio go down then so should the others. Fairs Fiar
What?Do you really believe Milan enjoy special treatment compared to juve?:rolleyes:

And some juve fans should stop trying to convince everyone that all the teams are equally responsible for this scandal.

Mozzi behaved like the godfather.