The Scandal Verdict is in [Archive] - MaXxed Football Forums

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narduch

14-07-2006, 08:02 PM

Juve in Serie b -30 points
Milan in Serie A -15 pts (this season -44pts = no CL)
Lazio in Serie b -7 points
Fiorentina in Serie b -12 points

The teams are allowed to appeal to TAR.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Altro_Calcio/Primo_Piano/2006/07_Luglio/14/SENTENZEOK.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/5164194.stm

This will most likely mean that Messina, Lecce and Treviso will now be saved from relegation.

Euro teams should now look like this:
CL: Inter, Roma, Chievo, Palermo
UC: Livorno, Parma, Empoli

varun

14-07-2006, 08:05 PM

sof2xlc

14-07-2006, 08:05 PM

WOW.thats it no c?

Mobius

14-07-2006, 08:06 PM

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:08 PM

Are you sure thats the official release?

Yes, this is the official verdict.

fcb_sandy05

14-07-2006, 08:09 PM

Are you sure thats the official release? I think that link was posted earlier in the day. So far this is what is on the BBC's website...

"Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.

Juventus have been stripped of their last two league titles.

More soon. "
Same thing on channel 4:

Juventus (-30pts), Lazio (-7pts) and Fiorentina (-12pts) relegated to Serie B with points deductions. Milan stay in A (-15pts), but lose Champions League.

Mobius

14-07-2006, 08:10 PM

Yeah, you're right. Its on the BBC's website now as well. :)

"Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.

AC Milan will stay in Serie A but will lose 15 points and will be kicked out of the Champions League.

Juventus have been stripped of their last two league titles and were deducted 30 points from their total for next season.

Lazio were penalised seven points while Fiorentina suffered a 12 point penalty."

slipperydave

14-07-2006, 08:11 PM

-30pts for Juve!! That's pretty harsh. They might have well put them in Serie C

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:14 PM

WOW.thats it no c?

The -30 points will make promotion very difficult.

With Lazio and Fiorentina in Serie B, Genoa and Napoli back in B, and teams like Bologna also fighting for promotion, the -30 points will be very difficult to overcome.

adammac_19

14-07-2006, 08:14 PM

I think it will be damn near impossible for Juventus to get back into the Siere A with a 30 pts behinde the rest

Dash

14-07-2006, 08:15 PM

Biggest news iv'e ever heard in football, what does this mean for Italy :(

After such a great world cup, this must be awful. I wonder what this means for all their star-studded players, will they move or stay faithful, the transfer market is going to get very interesting .

Ziegler1988

14-07-2006, 08:16 PM

Who replaces Milan in the CL?

fcb_sandy05

14-07-2006, 08:16 PM

-30pts for Juve!! That's pretty harsh. They might have well put them in Serie C
with all the money they make of the transfers, they can easily arrange to get promo..oh.

:D

They have definately sent out a strong message. the Juve/Viola/Lazio fans will be pissed about not only the verdict, but also Milan's punishment.

Inter,Roma,Chievo,Palermo in CL!!

ELLADA

14-07-2006, 08:19 PM

The -30pts is the "leniency" shown to Juventus, instead of sending them to Serie C. It is better to stay in Serie B for 2 years than to go from C to B.

EDIT: Exactly Sandy! I wonder what are the odds for an immediate return to Serie A?

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:19 PM

Who replaces Milan in the CL?

Inter and Roma should now be in the Group Stage.

Chievo and Palermo should be in the 3rd Qual. round.

Jason

14-07-2006, 08:19 PM

I still haven't seen any evidence against Milan aside from a single conversation between friends, an admin from Milan and a ref.

So I'm a little pissed about the CL spot and points docking to be honest. Totally underserved if that's the only thing they have against Milan.

WinMoney

14-07-2006, 08:19 PM

BBC News :

Serie A sides Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina have been demoted to the second division for their involvement in Italy's match-fixing scandal.
AC Milan will stay in Serie A but will lose 15 points and will be kicked out of the Champions League.

Juventus were also stripped of their last two titles and had 30 points deducted meaning that they are almost certain to stay down for two seasons.

Lazio were penalised seven points while Fiorentina suffered a 12 point penalty.

How can these clubs ever recover, when all there star players leave ??

Tiranis

14-07-2006, 08:21 PM

How can these clubs ever recover, when all there star players leave ??

Interesting question. Maybe they should've thought about that when they did what they did. :cool:

madtroll

14-07-2006, 08:22 PM

Juventus has had a good hiding then!

When does the summer sale start?

cityblues

14-07-2006, 08:23 PM

rafikz

14-07-2006, 08:23 PM

Too bad Milan AC was not relegated ; I hate Berlusconi

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 08:24 PM

Juventus has had a good hiding then!

When does the summer sale start?

2nite!! :p

Real JamesO

14-07-2006, 08:25 PM

Yeah, I don't know why everyone is convinced these teams will automatically hop back up to Serie A after this season or even the next. If they lose all their players, they'll still have the Juve name, but it won't be the same team. They'll be a Serie B quality team!

Who's getting promoted?

WinMoney

14-07-2006, 08:25 PM

If all the top players go, the titles are stipped away, and there are no Serie A matche for two years at the very least - They're going to lose a large fan base ......

Which means they'll lose their income ......

Which means they can't buy back better players ..... etc. etc.

Surely a downward spiral for Juventus

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 08:29 PM

I'm sure juve will recover....it'll just take about 4-5 years:eek:

take that you dirty cheating scum...

LOL!

DannyLB

14-07-2006, 08:30 PM

I'm sure juve will recover....it'll just take about 4-5 years:eek:

take that you dirty cheating scum...

LOL!

It will take them 2 years tops.

Remember Fiorentina getting relegated in serie c once and in 2 years they were back in serie a?

Bruun

14-07-2006, 08:31 PM

Uh--- can't wait for the Serie B games :)

Silas

14-07-2006, 08:32 PM

No, Milan had the same in the 80's I think, they came back, and then went to B again, but returned with a bang.

Fuck Milan isn't down. Sir Fuckguson better start Adding To Cart right now.

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 08:32 PM

It will take them 2 years tops.

Remember Fiorentina getting relegated in serie c once and in 2 years they were back in serie a?

i mean to recover fully...back into a top flight, serie a winning team...

they'll be back to serie a in 2 years for sure....

dcfly

14-07-2006, 08:33 PM

justified.

May261999

14-07-2006, 08:34 PM

AFP report (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Amo19TctYvvtsQtPnKpTtoE5nYcB?slug=afp-fblitascandaljustice&prov=afp&type=lgns)

"The verdict will be this: Juventus, Fiorentina and Lazio will be relegated to division two," said Gazetta.

"AC Milan will stay in the first division but will not be allowed to take part in the Champions League."

The newspaper did not give away its sources but claimed it also knew what point deductions each team would receive.

Juventus will be docked 20 points from the start of their Serie B campaign with Fiorentina penalised 10 and Lazio six or seven.

Milan will lose 10 to 15 points from their Serie A challenge, which would hand a huge advantage in the title race to city rivals Inter and even Roma.

30 or 20?

Real JamesO

14-07-2006, 08:35 PM

Maybe they'll just become an Italian Leeds United?

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:36 PM

No, Milan had the same in the 80's I think, they came back, and then went to B again, but returned with a bang.

True.

Milan was sent down for a different scandal at the end of the 79/80 season.

The next time they would win a Scudetto was the 87/88 season.

fcb_sandy05

14-07-2006, 08:36 PM

AFP report (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Amo19TctYvvtsQtPnKpTtoE5nYcB?slug=afp-fblitascandaljustice&prov=afp&type=lgns)

30 or 20?
30...what you have there is a prediction before the actual verdict

Butterfly

14-07-2006, 08:38 PM

Why aren't they any financial punishments for all the money they earned these years of cheating? And what the about the scudettos they won? Did Juventus keep them?

deviant

14-07-2006, 08:40 PM

I am going to be the biggest Roma AC Milano fan this side of the world next season I hope you are ready to handle whats coming Labfm

madtroll

14-07-2006, 08:41 PM

Shouldn't this thread be moved? Juventus, Lazio and Fiorentina are not Serie A clubs :p

Fetching coat...

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:42 PM

For a point of reference, this is last year's Serie B table:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/btable.html

With 30 point deduction, Juventus will have to have a tremendous season to even be considered for the 6th place spot (which is the final playoff spot). I don't know if they can do this with a watered down team.

Also, it's important to note that there will be appeals. But I have a feeling those will only affect the point deductions if successful.

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 08:43 PM

I am going to be the biggest Roma AC Milano fan this side of the world next season I hope you are ready to handle whats coming Labfm

come on now guys..i am not the italian prosecutors..i am a fan of football, then inter...

for fairness sake, this was the correct call...

now, you hate inter and that is your feelings and i cannot help that...
i like inter and i hope they do well next season....

thats it....dont hold a grudge against me...i never told moggi to do all this shit...

bricktop

14-07-2006, 08:46 PM

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. basically sums it up for me.

do you think any Milan players will leave because of lack of European football this season? (and possibly next season as they are already down 15 points..)

ELLADA

14-07-2006, 08:47 PM

For the record, AC Milan have also been deducted 44 pts from the 2005/06 season, to ensure that they do not participate in European football this season.

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. basically sums it up for me.

do you think any Milan players will leave because of lack of European football this season? (and possibly next season as they are already down 15 points..)
Not necessarily, AC Milan did finish 12 points ahead of Inter last season (albeit tainted). Maybe the title is unreachable, but a CL spot is more than a capable target.

DriveShot

14-07-2006, 08:48 PM

I am going to be the biggest Roma AC Milano fan this side of the world next season I hope you are ready to handle whats coming Labfm

Yeah how happy are Roma fans, from barely missing the CL qualifiers and playing for the UC to already being in the group stage of the CL.

DriveShot

14-07-2006, 08:51 PM

So do they cross off Juve's name from the Scudetto and write in Inter? Haha.

narduch

14-07-2006, 08:54 PM

So do they cross off Juve's name from the Scudetto and write in Inter? Haha.

Juve have lost their last 2 titles. I haven't read yet if they will be given to the next highest team (Inter in both seasons?)

I would prefer if they were both considered null (not given to anyone).

varun

14-07-2006, 08:56 PM

Juve have lost their last 2 titles. I haven't read yet if they will be given to the next highest team (Inter in both seasons?)

I would prefer if they were both considered null (not given to anyone).
WHYYYYY???

Let Inter win it, thats the only way they are ever gonna win sommin :D

As for me i'll be all out for me beloved Roma next season, they are gonna be champions again :eek:

deviant

14-07-2006, 08:59 PM

come on now guys..i am not the italian prosecutors..i am a fan of football, then inter...

for fairness sake, this was the correct call...

now, you hate inter and that is your feelings and i cannot help that...
i like inter and i hope they do well next season....

thats it....dont hold a grudge against me...i never told moggi to do all this shit...
its not a grudge its all fun and games man ;)

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 08:59 PM

too bad for that vieira guy ;)

sweed

14-07-2006, 09:01 PM

if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

exactly

cityblues

14-07-2006, 09:01 PM

Juve will be fun to play with in FM 2007...lol, overcome a 30 pt.defecit to earn promotion.

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:05 PM

Juve will be fun to play with in FM 2007...lol, overcome a 30 pt.defecit to earn promotion.

lol i was thinking about fm having to make changes lol aswel :p

-
-

am i right in thinking that most players at these clubs with have relegation clauses in their contracts??... (hehe :p)

bricktop

14-07-2006, 09:07 PM

all I know is that I don't want Vieira, let him go elsewhere! (he's been linked with United)

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:09 PM

all I know is that I don't want Vieira, let him go elsewhere! (he's been linked with United)

get camorenasi as a replacement for ronaldo :p

fanutd

14-07-2006, 09:12 PM

I wouldn't want any of these players to be honest :) Pity all this happened. G-Luck to the clubs in trouble

leoni11

14-07-2006, 09:13 PM

am i right in thinking that most players at these clubs with have relegation clauses in their contracts??...

I dont know if this is ment as a joke or not.. but i think thats hilariously funny :D

kaku

14-07-2006, 09:13 PM

Feck, what a disaster for italian football.:mad: The only good news is that A.C Milan won't be relegated.

Inter,Roma,Chievo and Palermo in the CL?:rolleyes: Inter will probably reach the quarter-finals and that's it.

Mozzi and co, you idiots.How can you have so much power but not the common sense not to fix games over the phone.:rolleyes: Ofcourse the real issue is why do it in the first place:mad:

And as far as Milan's players are concerned, don't get your hopes up.Milan will reach a CL spot easily next year, even with a 15 points deficit.Especially with Juve,Lazio and Fiorentina in Serie B.Even the title is not out of the question.

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:14 PM

I dont know if this is ment as a joke or not.. but i think thats hilariously funny :D

haha, this whole story is funny :D :p (glad to see you keep a good face about it and all)

-
-

oh oh i just heard that trezeguet is off to watford :p :p :p

deviant

14-07-2006, 09:15 PM

Im pretty sure Buffon will go on loan to Milan now.

WinMoney

14-07-2006, 09:15 PM

BBC News :

Thirteen of Italy's World Cup-winning squad play for the clubs involved, with five at Juventus, who also number Patrick Vieira, Lilian Thuram, David Trezeguet, Pavel Nedved and Zlatan Ibrahimovic in their ranks.

Many of them are expected to seek transfers to other leading clubs in Italy or Europe to limit the damage to their careers.

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:16 PM

Im pretty sure Buffon will go on loan to Milan now.

hes coming to arsenal ;)

sweed

14-07-2006, 09:19 PM

whoever wants buffon is gonna have to pay a pretty penny...

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 09:19 PM

Im pretty sure Buffon will go on loan to Milan now.

is it a loan deal or is it permanent??
for the amount of money i see in the negotiation (i think something like GBP 15 mil and abbiati), i dont think it'll be a loan...

what u need to understand is juve is NOT IN A POSITION to negotiate..
they cannot try to loan all their players and get them back once promoted....

serie B has a salary cap; they CANNOT maintain that with the amount of stars they have...and their salaries...

but, we'll see.

u never know with this juve team..

slipperydave

14-07-2006, 09:20 PM

hes coming to arsenal ;)
No, he wants a challenge. He's coming to Derby!:eek:

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:22 PM

No, he wants a challenge. He's coming to Derby!:eek:

step up in his career :D :p

varun

14-07-2006, 09:23 PM

No, he wants a challenge. He's coming to Derby!:eek:
ZLATAN is the biggest one up for grabs imo.....Mr. fergie better move fast :mad:

leoni11

14-07-2006, 09:23 PM

haha, this whole story is funny :D :p (glad to see you keep a good face about it and all)

-
-

oh oh i just heard that trezeguet is off to watford :p :p :p

well. i cant say that im extaticly happy about it but better the verdict is out so that we can plan for the future...
Is still a bit new and a bit much to comprehend the extent of it all...

gunnersfan

14-07-2006, 09:24 PM

well. i cant say that im extaticly happy about it but better the verdict is out so that we can plan for the future...
Is still a bit new and a bit much to comprehend the extent of it all...

lets hope you learn from your mistakes ;)

slipperydave

14-07-2006, 09:30 PM

lets hope you learn from your mistakes ;)
yeah, that thing about "cheats" and "prosper" comes to mind.

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 09:32 PM

I never really follow Italian football much, but IMO this is bs. The players and the nation get hurt just because a few executives had some suspicious phone calls? I honestly don't think the previous two years results would have been ANY different had this not happened.

Even though I don't like Italy since they knocked Holland out of Euro2000, the one thing I liked this WC was how their entire team played for Italian clubs. This shows loyalty to stay and play for your own clubs rather than running off to some foreign club just for money. Now that will likely be ruined, since they will probably sell a lot of their players and they will all be dispersed outside Italy.

I hope that all the Italian players remain super loyal to their clubs and stay, and that all three teams will be back in Serie A next year.

Jason

14-07-2006, 09:33 PM

come on now guys..i am not the italian prosecutors..i am a fan of football, then inter...

he never said you were. It is however widely known that you're a bit of a flaming troll against any rival of Inter on these boards

I'm sure that's why he was referring to you. I'm almost certain he didn't mistake you for an Italian prosecutor

sweed

14-07-2006, 09:33 PM

akibo

14-07-2006, 09:34 PM

Feck, what a disaster for italian football.:mad: The only good news is that A.C Milan won't be relegated.
No that is the only downside of the whole thing, during all this investigation I hoped for a wholesale on Juve & Milan, but it looks like it's going to be just Juve :(

Go INTER btw :p !~!!:D

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 09:35 PM

Also, I would like to know, other than the incriminating phone calls, did they actually have any evidence of even a single match where the ref was clearly in favour of Juve or one of the other punished teams? If not, then its pretty much irrelevant.

Labfm1

14-07-2006, 09:36 PM

I honestly don't think the previous two years results would have been ANY different had this not happened.

you my friend have not been following this thing for real...

juve was not just appointing refs to help them win, but also appointing refs to make their rival teams lose....they were appointing refs for Milan games, Inter games e.t.c, to ensure that not only juve wins their game, but their rivals lose theirs...

think...if you found out that all those bad calls you receive in games throughout a season were not "human error" or unlucky but was a deliberate plan by your rival team...

you would want a lot of punishment handed on them..

durak

14-07-2006, 09:37 PM

you guys are talking about how hard it will be for juve to get back to serie a, but with a 30 point penalty, they'll have a hard time to prevent merely being relegated to serie c....

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 09:37 PM

Mark the Goalkeeper

14-07-2006, 09:39 PM

This is a dark moment for my hometown team, Juventus FC. But to every dark there is light. We will bounce back from this.

On another note, my cousins and uncles are happy because they all support Torino and they jokingly tell me that at least one Turin team will be in Serie A. I'm happy for our hometown team but saddened about Juventus. This is difficult for me... but I am always going to be a Juventino until the end

cityblues

14-07-2006, 09:45 PM

you guys are talking about how hard it will be for juve to get back to serie a, but with a 30 point penalty, they'll have a hard time to prevent merely being relegated to serie c....

especially cause they still have to abide by the salary cap meaning they can't have any of their superstarts...they're done IMO.

kaku

14-07-2006, 09:47 PM

No that is the only downside of the whole thing, during all this investigation I hoped for a wholesale on Juve & Milan, but it looks like it's going to be just Juve :(

Go INTER btw :p !~!!:D
Yeah, it's obvious from all the posts here.It ain't gonna happen though.And A.C Milan will be back in the CL next year.

There's still hope that an italian club will win the CL in the next few years:D

leoni11

14-07-2006, 09:48 PM

meh, im still sticking by Juventus :)

vemerez

14-07-2006, 09:49 PM

wow looked like some heads rolled on this one:eek:
I only casually follow seria A so I don't really have any hard investment in them. But now we see if those clubs had true fans no?

Im glad this didn't turn out to be all talk, and action DID happen. Italy ye old girl, always a scandel then a world cup win :)

DriveShot

14-07-2006, 09:50 PM

They weren't fixing matches but trying to fix matches by having certain refs referee certain matches. If it wasnt such a big deal then why did they do it. If you try and change a match from being completely fair and neutral then you are cheating and deserve to be punished.

aminoacid

14-07-2006, 09:55 PM

you guys are talking about how hard it will be for juve to get back to serie a, but with a 30 point penalty, they'll have a hard time to prevent merely being relegated to serie c....

Good point! Especially after having to get rid of all their players to meet the Serie B salary cap. ...just when I thought I couldn't get any more pissed off :mad:

I think Berlusconi must have had some italian style "influence" in allowing Milan to remain in Serie A --- f'ing bastard

Yusuf

14-07-2006, 09:56 PM

Isnt juventus the only team in europe to have always played in the top division? What a way to go down :( Great team, great traditions, couple of japanese anime later juve are relegated.

Supa

14-07-2006, 09:56 PM

Italian football.... :rolleyes:

Why would anyone follow Serie A when they know so much cheating goes on?

I like how the executives most responsible for this scandal only get like, five year ban from football, or one year ban from football, they will be back in the middle of the mix before you know it. And cheaters are like drug addicts, they never quit.

Let the feeding frenzy begin!

kaku

14-07-2006, 09:58 PM

Isnt juventus the only team in europe to have always played in the top division? What a way to go down :( Great team, great traditions, couple of japanese anime later juve are relegated.
Nope.Internazionale always played in the top division as well.Derby d' italia no more:rolleyes:

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 10:00 PM

Wow so the serie B salary capped means Juve have to sell their players even if the players wanted to stay and remain loyal?

God thats just so unfair. The players are just being punished now- the last European nation to use players all from its own club teams is screwed.

If they are forced to sell their players, and get -30 pts, I don't see how they are ever coming back. So they just ruined a club with a history of 109 years because of a few phone calls.

kaku

14-07-2006, 10:07 PM

So they just ruined a club with a history of 109 years because of a few phone calls.
To be honest they weren't just a few phone calls.Mozzi was...:mad: in those phone calls.That bastard's arrogance brought him down.

And why did he get away with ONLY 5 years?:mad: :mad: :mad:

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 10:10 PM

I think that the actual people involved directly like that Moggi guy should be severely punished, not only banned from football for life but also sent to jail or fined heavily.

However, punishing the players and fans is unfair IMO. At most, they should be banned from CL football for a few years, but kept in Serie A. This is just ridiculous.

EDIT: WOW VERY MATURE TO RED CARD ME FOR GIVNG MY OPINION. Im not even Italian, im not an italian fan, im not an italian club fan, I simply feel sorry for their fans and players and think the sentence is disproportionate, and some retard decides to give me a red? Whoever gave me the red, SCREW YOU you stupid bitch, I am simply voicing a reasonable opinion and showing some solidarity with the fans and players, I suggest you do the same.

Edit2: Some fucking idiot decided to neg rep me for this post, saying "don't support cheating". ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND-how am I supporting cheating? I said the people directly involved should be sent to jail-learn to read before you neg rep someone you ignorant fuck.

kidujp

14-07-2006, 10:16 PM

WOW

It'll take some time for Juve to be any sort of force now. Milan if they keep their team and play well could very wasily be in the top 4 next year.

I read in a report on BBC or soccernet a couple of days back that the relegation clause is a standard one in most player contracts. So Juve might not get a lot of money if they are sold, assuming that they will become bosman transfers. Anyone has any ideas abt how it works ???

fanutd

14-07-2006, 10:19 PM

hes coming to arsenal ;)

stop dreaming :p

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 10:19 PM

kaku

14-07-2006, 10:19 PM

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 10:23 PM

Oh well, I feel much sympathy for the fans, the players, and Italian football as a whole. I only hope future generations of Italian players will remain as loyal to their clubs as the present generation has been.

And now I will stop commenting in this thread, because apparently I'm deserving of a red card for the inspired reason: "stop whining. they got kicked b'cos they cheated."

So much for showing some sympathy and presenting a reasonable opinion. Next time I might as well just flame the hell out of everything, since regardless of what I do, morons like this seem compelled to give me a red.

damienduff

14-07-2006, 10:34 PM

juve should simply loan out the players to other club sides. when they return to serie A, the players come back to the team. or they could simply get skillful youth players from other clubs in exchange for the big stars. if they get promoted, they re-exchange.

kidujp

14-07-2006, 10:36 PM

From soccernet.

At the close of trading on Milan's stock exchange on Friday, Lazio shares had dropped 9.68% to 0.28 euros while Juventus went down to 1.45 euros - a fall of 1.15%.

An estimated 500 Lazio fans protested outside Rome's Parco dei Principi hotel as Federal Appeal Commission president Cesare Ruperto read out the verdicts inside.

More than 300 Fiorentina fans met up outside the Artemio Franchi stadium as a sign of protest but it was a different story in Turin with few Juventus supporters turning up at the club's headquarters in Via Galileo Ferraris.

Juve fans seems to have accepted the fate before the verdict...

ELLADA

14-07-2006, 10:38 PM

Former FIGC president Franco Carraro.. suspended for 4 years.

Yup, that's the same Franco Carraro, IOC member. Shocking.

Lampard

14-07-2006, 10:42 PM

Wow what a action!!!
What about players(stars)???

DriveShot

14-07-2006, 10:49 PM

If anyone, it should of been the Milan fans out protesting.

barcalove

14-07-2006, 10:54 PM

ouch :eek:

lets hope zambrotta chooses barca :D

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=402671&CPID=21&clid=125&lid=8&title=Mutu+keen+to+impress

^^^ hahahah @ mutu... he gets a transfer from one relegated club to another :D that is fucking hilarious... "MUTU KEEN TO IMPRESS... in serie B :D"

ddmarkm

14-07-2006, 10:58 PM

One more thing, you know what would be really cool. If all the Italian players on Juve decided not only to stay with Juve, but also to accept a huge drop in pay so that they can all stay there (without violating the salary cap). A nobel gesture like that would win them many fans, including me. But I doubt it will happen since I don't think most people would want an 80% pay cut, regardless of loyalty.

barcalove

14-07-2006, 11:03 PM

i wonder if the winner of this year's champions league will feel as though they had an easier path with juventus and milan no longer the formidable obstacles they usually are?

starks

14-07-2006, 11:04 PM

I'm not a fan of any Italian clubs but I really feel for the fans of these clubs. Just hang in there through the tough times and I'm sure you'll be OK soon enough ;)

May261999

14-07-2006, 11:11 PM

serie B has a salary cap
That's absolutely brilliant. I wish other leagues would follow suit.

i wonder if the winner of this year's champions league will feel as though they had an easier path with juventus and milan no longer the formidable obstacles they usually are?
Hard to tell, especially if there is a flurry of transfer activity involving Serie A (and former Serie A) players right before the transfer windows close. If any one team gains a couple of players who turn out to be instrumental in a CL victory this coming season, you could very well say the easier path was due more to the players' contribution, and not so much the absence of any given team.

Quick question: how come there weren't any players implicated? If this scandal runs as deep as it seems to, I'd like to believe in the sanctity of players, but everyone's human, and it seems like there'd be at least a couple of players involved too.

tsteling

14-07-2006, 11:50 PM

That's absolutely brilliant. I wish other leagues would follow suit.

And what about relegations in MLS ;)

May261999

14-07-2006, 11:56 PM

And what about relegations in MLS ;)
Might as well. The thing about relegation is that it's a totally alien concept to American sports. The sport best suited to try it from a organizational standpoint is baseball, but that wouldn't work here, since major-league teams have contracts with minor-league teams. Not sure if any such contracts exist between MLS teams and A-league or USL teams.

mosesmalone

14-07-2006, 11:58 PM

Remember that the Serie B salary cap does not have a hard limit, though. If a team goes over cap, they simply forfeit the subsidy that the league gives them (which works out to just a little over €1m each season - basically the equivalent of Baltic Avenue to Juventus).

Juventus should be able to avoid relegation to Serie C despite the 30-point penalty, but with the parity in Serie B, it will be difficult to jump right back up - if not down right impossible. Bologna are a strong team, Napoli will be a contender, Lazio don't have to contend with an overwhelming penalty, and Genoa have the financial strength to buy their way back to Serie A. Messina, Reggina, and Siena are also under investigation, perhaps throwing even more quality into the mix, so by the the time the season kicks off... wow! :)

Unregistered

15-07-2006, 12:18 AM

i wonder if the winner of this year's champions league will feel as though they had an easier path with juventus and milan no longer the formidable obstacles they usually are?

Maybe Arsenal can finally win something! :D ;) :D

May261999

15-07-2006, 12:20 AM

::shaking head::

This is crazy........Juve could go on a 10-game win streak to start the season, and a quarter way in, they'd still be bottom.

But you reap what you sow.

kaiserfranz

15-07-2006, 12:29 AM

This is absolutely ridiculous. It seems to me that Lazio and Fiorentina are being made convenient scapegoats. If anyone knows why I should think otherwise, please enlighten me.

narduch

15-07-2006, 12:41 AM

i wonder if the winner of this year's champions league will feel as though they had an easier path with juventus and milan no longer the formidable obstacles they usually are?

Why should they? It's not the first time Milan or Juve have failed to reach the Champions League. Did it devalue the CL those years as well?

starks

15-07-2006, 12:46 AM

There will be appeals, I guess there is a chance that they could decrease some of the sentences, maybe make it like -15 points off from Juve? Then they could be back in one year.

May261999

15-07-2006, 12:48 AM

This is absolutely ridiculous. It seems to me that Lazio and Fiorentina are being made convenient scapegoats. If anyone knows why I should think otherwise, please enlighten me.
Obviously the tribunal disagrees with you. ;) I wonder if the evidence will be made public record. Not sure what the laws are in Italy regarding that as compared to US laws.

And speaking of US laws, whenever there's any type of suspension or ban, in baseball and the NFL here, players are allowed to appeal them, and they can play on until the appeal is heard. Since I assume the clubs and referees and officials involved will be appealing, how is that going to work as far as Serie A and B scheduling and the teams who end up getting saved from relegation last season (Lecce, Treviso, and Messina).

narduch

15-07-2006, 01:34 AM

Just wanted to add a little more info on the aftermath.

Here is the full list of punishments, included those for club directors and refs:
http://channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul14m.html
The thing that amazes me is that Moggi did not receive a lifetime ban, only 5 years.

Of course, all the clubs have stated that they will appeal the ruling:
http://channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul14n.html
I think the most we'll see happen is the point deductions reduced.

Finally, this is how the top 2 divisions in Italy are shapping up for next year:

Serie A: Ascoli, Atalanta, Cagliari, Catania, Chievo, Empoli, Inter, Lecce, Livorno, Messina, Milan (-15pts), Palermo, Parma, Reggina, Roma, Sampdoria, Siena, Torino, Treviso, Udinese.

Serie B: Albinoleffe, Arezzo, Bari, Bologna, Brescia, Cesena, Crotone, Fiorentina (-12pts), Frosinone, Genoa, Juventus (-30pts), Lazio (-7pts), Mantova, Modena, Napoli, Pescara, Piacenza, Rimini, Spezia, Triestina, Verona, Vicenza.

Its important to note that there are still more clubs in trouble. :eek:
Siena, Reggina and Messina have also been implicated. But the court wanted to handle the cases of the teams involved in Europe first. I'd expect these clubs, if guilty, will face a similar fate that Lazio and Fiorentina did.

May261999

15-07-2006, 03:14 AM

The thing that amazes me is that Moggi did not receive a lifetime ban, only 5 years.

I wonder if there's any chance of a civil action being brought against him.

zaffo

15-07-2006, 04:09 AM

you my friend have not been following this thing for real...

juve was not just appointing refs to help them win, but also appointing refs to make their rival teams lose....they were appointing refs for Milan games, Inter games e.t.c, to ensure that not only juve wins their game, but their rivals lose theirs...

think...if you found out that all those bad calls you receive in games throughout a season were not "human error" or unlucky but was a deliberate plan by your rival team...

you would want a lot of punishment handed on them..

to be honest i think that is a load of BS the last 2 titles Juve have won have pritty much been decided on the last game of the season...why would Juve goto the trouble to fix refs for other games when they arnt winning the league by a bigger margin.

You seem to forget that Juve had a huge stumble and let Milan right back in with a chance to sneak the title from us yet Juve were good enough to just hold on.

Also i'm pritty sure Inter have recieved alot of favoured calls to "steal" points from other clubs. Bigger clubs always get the good end of the stick no matter what league your in so really you cant use that as any excuse.

IMO I think there are other things going on apart from what us public have been told and lead to believe.

No Justification For The Crying Game!

In this Goal.com Guest Editorial, Gavino Nieddu takes issue with the sore losers and conspiracy theorists so swift to attribute Juve's consistent success in Serie A to alleged bribery and corruption rather than better footballers and superior footballing tactics ...
Photo

That’s it, I’ve had it. You people (magazines, newspapers, highlight shows, websites) have succeeded in ruining what was once a credible sport. I love Serie A but the lure you have all helped create around the league has reduced it to a joke. I live in Canada; the majority of my friends are hockey, football (North American), basketball, and baseball fans. They laugh at me when they see me get worked up about Italian soccer because we are now seen as whiners and babies. I hate to say it but they are right. No other fan of any other sport cries as much as the Italian soccer fan.

The Yankees dominate, yet no one blames the umpires. The Maple Leafs are in a 40 something year drought, yet it is never assumed to be the referees' fault. Juve take a commanding lead in the scudetto and suddenly blame needs to be placed somewhere...anywhere! You’ve tried the referee talk, the steroid attempt, and now the little clubs are even lending a hand, rather than just accepting that Juventus are Italy’s strongest squad. This has become almost too childish to discredit...almost.

I watch a lot of soccer. I do admit to be a sympathizer with Juventus especially in Europe but my squad is Sardinia’s Cagliari. When I watched Juve-Cagliari last May in the Stadio Delle Alpi I was in the away section wearing a Zola jersey waving a Sardo flag. So you can take your assumptions of whatever biases I may have towards Juve and set them aside. They do not apply.

This year I needed to satisfy my own curiosity. Was Juve really that dominant or was there some truth to the non-stop accusations? So I analyzed, and I wish you guys would too before making these accusations. I wondered if there were differences in disciplinary action between the big clubs. So I counted them. I counted 1 for every yellow and 2 for every red. I saw Inter had 70, Milan had 52, and Juve fell between the two with 61. In my opinion, over 35 games (so far) 9 cards don’t make a

So it wasn’t a “bookings” thing. “Maybe Juve was getting a lot more penalties than the others” I told myself. So I counted. Juve scored a whopping 3 all season, Inter 5, and Milan 7. These differences could alter the standings somewhat. Can we still say that Juve is being favoured though? They have the least; remarkably Milan is again in the best position. So I asked myself “Is it possible that Juve has faced far fewer penalties than the others?” seeing as I had heard this claim in the past. So I counted. Juve have faced 3, Inter and Milan both faced 2. No real significant difference here but it certainly can’t be said that Juve are favoured seeing as their position is once again less favourable than Milan’s or Inter’s.

We all know there is more to this, so let’s at least try to count the times that points have been acquired dubiously. This is difficult to quantify since it is somewhat opinion based, but it comes up too often to be ignored. Remember that Del Piero goal that was offside against Udinese? That was a win for Juve that should have been a tie, I can admit it. That means Juve got an extra 2 points undeservingly that game. I also noticed a tie against Cagliari that has been deemed corrupt because of the “questionable” 5 minutes of injury time needed to draw. Frankly, despite being a Cagliari fan even I understood the 5 minutes. There were penalties (against Juve) and red cards that day that pushed the game farther into injury time, it happens. Let’s count it though, just to humour the Anti-Juventino. So they got an unjust point for a total of 3 extra points. Now to be fair, we have to mention the obvious penalty on Ibra that the referee “didn’t see” at Chievo costing Juve a possible win. That day they took home 1 point and left 2 on the field. In the end their point surplus is a staggering 1 after 35 games.

Not a single refereeing decision all year cost either Inter or Milan points. Go ahead, try to bring up an example and I’m sure FIFA regulations will disagree. I did however, find a few occasions where the opposite occurred. Remember Milan’s dubious 5 minutes of injury time resulting in an Inzaghi goal? It was favouritism for Juve, why not Milan then? Chock up a 2 point surplus for Milan. Inter though is far worse. I saw a number of questionable goals/penalties, and wrongfully called back goals earn them wins against Lecce, Cagliari, and Treviso and a tie against Lazio for a surplus of 7 points. Disagree? Go ahead but good luck proving Juve were more favoured than either of these two clubs.

Not too long ago the doping issue arose. All Juve’s coaches were arrested and embarrassed. The media was all over it. Then an Italian court of law found each of the accused not guilty and Goal.com didn’t find it interesting enough to write about. So that attempt didn’t work. Now we’ve got a new accusation. Italy’s “minnows” are letting themselves be beaten by Juve and playing their hearts off against Milan to “give” the scudetto to Juve. This one is by far my favourite.

“Why did Messina play so hard?”, maybe to avoid relegation, genius. Why did Treviso play so hard against Juve? Why did Cagliari do the same? Why do teams like Roma, Lazio, Chievo and Fiorentina always seem to have the game of their season against Juve? Juve are public enemy number 1 in Italy because they are Italy’s most successful team and every team that faces them brings their A game. Yet somehow it’s these very squads who have given Juve an edge? This one is beyond stupid.

I suggest you think back to the days when Miccoli played for Perugia under Juve ownership. Perugia managed to eliminate Juve from the Coppa Italia and tie them in the Scudetto. Guess who scored? Miccoli did in an attempt to get called up to the big squad. The little guys always try to impress against the big guns and no one is bigger than Juventus.

Nice try “paisan” but you’ll need a more credible story next time. I’m sure we’ll all hear it soon enough. It is too hard for an Italian soccer fan to digest that their team is not the best. I’ll be the guy that leads by example. My team is in the relegation battle. They rarely finish a game with 11 players on the pitch and as a result have the most bookings in Serie A with 105, and have the most booked player in the league (Daniele Conti). If they wind up relegated you won’t hear me crying about officials though, I guarantee it. But then I’m a man.

Gavino Nieddu

Buff_K

15-07-2006, 04:19 AM

How can these clubs ever recover, when all there star players leave ??

well, Fiorentina have just done it havent they.

alexdp2005

15-07-2006, 04:23 AM

I'm just gonna say 5 things.
First two are replies to some questions in this thread.
1. The 5 year ban for Moggi (May God Damn You To Hell), is the max that is allowed. But it has been recommended to the FIGC that it be extended for life.
2. Relegation clauses arent necessary and most of the players in these top clubs might not even have them. Whats the chance of getting relegated in Juve anyway? They havent been relegated in their entire history.

3. All of this fuss is over 2, yes TWO, f-ing games that were supposedly "fixed". Relegation and -30 points just for two matches.:eek:

4. All of the evidence hasn't even been reviewed. The tribunal hasn't even listened to all the phone calls. The verdict is biased and rushed.

5. Inter couldnt win a Scudetto as long as they had competition from Juve and Milan, (last time they won was 1989). The only way there gonna win one is now that the competition has been elimnated. That is if they can even do that. I bet they still wont be able to.

--------------
FORZA ITALIA!!!!
FORZA JUVE!!!!
http://www.juventus.com/fe_images/logo_juve.jpg

Buff_K

15-07-2006, 04:26 AM

Am I not right in saying that the Italian FA had a big problem in the league getting expanded to the 20 teams it currently is (and created a hold up in the kick off to the season)? Well this, you would think, would be a perfect opportunity to reduce the league back down to 16 teams.

Buff_K

15-07-2006, 04:30 AM

From soccernet.

Juve fans seems to have accepted the fate before the verdict...

Ha! No-one turns up to watch Juve games so no-ones going to turn up when nothings going on! lol.

It's the one thing that really does surprise me. Juve the biggest club in italy, yet always seem to be playing to a poxy little crowd.

I know I know, the stadiums crap and outta the way apparantly la de da.....I still find it very strange.

alexdp2005

15-07-2006, 04:37 AM

The majority of people in Torino are Torino FC fans. Juve's fanbase is largely outside of Turin, the biggest fanbase in Italy and a large one throughout Europe. Btw, the Serie A is gonna see a large drop in ticket sales in the following season. How many big teams are left? This is gonna be bad for everyone.. Even the small teams. One of their major revenues is playing against such teams... Serie B teams will be somewhat happy to be playing against them.

chelseafan71

15-07-2006, 05:34 AM

narduch

15-07-2006, 05:49 AM

3. All of this fuss is over 2, yes TWO, f-ing games that were supposedly "fixed". Relegation and -30 points just for two matches.:eek: [/IMG]

That's because they only had wiretaps for two games. I'm sure if they tapped the same phones for a longer period of time, they would have had more evidence. Besides, Genoa was guilty of fixing one game, and look what happened to them.

But that's beside the point. What the wiretaps reveal is that Juve was running an elaborate referee influincing scheme. Basically, Moggi was running the Mafia equivalent of the referee selection process.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's being missed in all of the relegation hype is how will this be avoided in the future. I'm wonder what the FIGC and the Lega are doing to ensure that nothing like this happens again. What's being done to ensure that the conflicts of interest are removed from the game in Italy.

I guess I have some research to do.

alexdp2005

15-07-2006, 05:59 AM

good to see that berlusconi still has juuuust enough juice to keep milan in serieA.
funny to see the juve supporters crying foul when it has been pretty common knowledge for years that the big clubs were choosing their own refs.
moggi is a snake - and you knew what he was like for years - now a new discovery - you aren't too big to be caught and punished - and even the refs that had been friendly to juve for years (and been well rewarded for it) won't have the balls to hand you points the way they used to.
so italian football is squeaky clean and free of corruption? i doubt it - only a few days until a new moggi starts selling influence - who is going to be next to be caught?

the only surprise in this whole affair is that nobody (except berlusconi - partially) bought off the enquiry. I fully expected to see the panel drive away in their brand new maseratis after declaring everyone to be innocent.

fancy that - there's a long-standing policy never to consider players who play outside of italy - and all the national team come from italian clubs - what a fucking coincidence

juve, juve, juve - It's funny because it's not me :D

Moggi, I always hated the guy. Knew he wasnt clean. Btw the refs didnt get money. There's no word of money anywhere.

And btw just for the info, cuz i think i read someone, somewhere mention Berlusconi has more money than the Agnelli family,
The Agnelli family is the richest family in Italy, with a yearly income that is more than Iran's yearly oil income (thats a whole country). They own Juve along with the Ferrari F1 team and FIAT, Ferrari itself, IVECO and a couple of other companies. They also own a lot of land in Italy especially around Torino, where they own entire cities. In short they own half of Italy (not exactly, just as a figure of speech), and they're one of the most influential families in Italy. As a matter of fact, they also had family members in the parliment until a while ago (i think 2-3 years or sth.)

aminoacid

15-07-2006, 06:18 AM

fancy that - there's a long-standing policy never to consider players who play outside of italy - and all the national team come from italian clubs - what a fucking coincidence

Also to kick foreign players out of the league when they perform well in a world cup and knock out the Italian team (Maradona in '90 and some S.Korean player after '02)....but let's not get away from the subject here: juve got screwed and inter still sucks.

juve, juve, juve - It's funny because it's not me :D

i'll definitely be laughing when your chelsea turns in to the real madrid of the past few years.

saurabh

15-07-2006, 06:45 AM

ELLADA

15-07-2006, 07:00 AM

fancy that - there's a long-standing policy never to consider players who play outside of italy - and all the national team come from italian clubs - what a fucking coincidencetsk tsk tsk.. Roberto Di Matteo come to mind?

Christian Vieri did play for Atletico Madrid in 1997/98. Francesco Coco was on loan at Barcelona for the 2001/02 season and played in the last 2 games of the 2002 World Cup.

That is perhaps because players do not want to leave Italy (although I will grant you that maybe it's a case of "what came first, the chicken or the egg").

May261999

15-07-2006, 07:21 AM

[b]to be honest i think that is a load of BS the last 2 titles Juve have won have pritty much been decided on the last game of the season...why would Juve goto the trouble to fix refs for other games when they arnt winning the league by a bigger margin.

Two words: plausible deniability. Plus, Juve won it pretty handily season before last.

fancy that - there's a long-standing policy never to consider players who play outside of italy - and all the national team come from italian clubs - what a fucking coincidence
Late-night-off-the-top-of-my-head thinking here, please forgive me: were Lombardo, Vialli, Zola and Ravanelli still capped when they played in the EPL?

EDIT: Oh yeah, forgot-- Vialli left the national team picture after being snubbed in '94. What about the rest?

WinMoney

15-07-2006, 08:20 AM

Why does a team that supplied 8 players for the World Cup finals - Feel they need to risk everything and cheat to win the league ?

Aurora

15-07-2006, 09:06 AM

I lived in my dreams! And the dreams were distroyed, when I was 24!
Every weekend I was on Delle Alpi, with hope, fear & next with a beautiful feeling of win or with feeling of hard lost!

Italia, Bellissima Italia was disappeard with verdict!!

I felt that I`m in Poland!!

Forza Juve!!! Molto grazie Ragazzi!!

With any hope or agenda.... We`ll still love You È BIANCONERA LA BELLA SIGNORA

Vito Corleone

15-07-2006, 11:13 AM

Most Juve players probably don't have relegation release clauses. President Giovanni Cobolli Gilli is quoted on Sky Sports (http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?HLID=403287&CPID=21&title=Juve+stand+firm+over+sales&lid=&channel=Football_Home&f=rss&clid=128):

Now it's clear, a big part of them will have big problems in staying with us in Serie B with a 30-point deduction, even if I don't want to think that, at the end, the penalty will be so.

Anyway, it's clear that we won't sell off our players, they will leave with adequate prices.

We'll be back :cool:

narduch

15-07-2006, 01:35 PM

Liverpool are directly benefited as they may not have to play the CL qualifiers anymore. On the other hand, maybe the Juve, Milan, players aren't so good after all if they won by cheating. I guess they will all come and turn the Premiership into a big cheating scam!

Liverpool will still be in the 3rd qual. round.

Inter and Roma will be in the Group Stage. Palermo and Chievo will be in the 3rd qual. round.

I don't know where you got this information that Liverpool would move up? Even if all the Italian teams were banned from Europe, the next two countries in line to have teams move up to the Group Stage are Turkey and the Czech Rep, based on the club ranking found here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2005.html

bennmartin

15-07-2006, 02:34 PM

the italian league is corrupt. oh my god what a surprise!

english and spanish teams.........on your mark.......get set...........let the looting begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

matidbr

15-07-2006, 04:08 PM

phat

15-07-2006, 04:26 PM

I think the verdict is fair, you need to pay for your mistakes and that's all. Maybe the penaulty for Moggi is too little but it's not me to judge. Anyway, 30 points doesn't seem much for me, we still can get max 96 points, well, see you in Serie A in 2007.
Forza Juve! :)

Moggi and Giraudo get five year bans and you think its fair? Those fucken bastards should be sent to jail for relagating Juventus. We have been in Serie A for 109 years and these bastard get 5 years.

We the fans are the one paying the most for those 2 fucks.

Fuck Moggi, Giraudo, the FIGC, Serie A, Berlusconi and Milan!

johnno

15-07-2006, 06:41 PM

Moggi and Giraudo get five year bans and you think its fair? Those fucken bastards should be sent to jail for relagating Juventus. We have been in Serie A for 109 years and these bastard get 5 years.

We the fans are the one paying the most for those 2 fucks.

Fuck Moggi, Giraudo, the FIGC, Serie A, Berlusconi and Milan!

fark the serie A? come on, its the thing you guys are going to be dreaming of for the next 2 years.

I think its just the cheating culprits u need to hate.

kaku

15-07-2006, 07:13 PM

On the other hand, maybe the Juve, Milan, players aren't so good after all if they won by cheating. I guess they will all come and turn the Premiership into a big cheating scam!
Yeah you are right.None of you would want kaka, Emerson, Buffon,Vieira, Cannavaro etc.What a bunch of shitty players.As if you have better players in the EPL ffs.It's pretty obvious from this thread that none of you would like any of these players to play for your team.

Inf act i agree with you. I believe they should all sign for A.C Milan, That way everyone will be happy.So, get your hands off them:cool:

eurotrash

15-07-2006, 07:22 PM

The "good" news for Milan is that they might still be able to play in the UEFA cup.

However, there are hopes that a UEFA Cup spot could be forthcoming due to Empoli not having the correct license to play in the competition, as they were one of the side's to benefit from the verdict!

"We will appeal once the documents of the verdict will be available, with the certainty that the procedure will be radically modified by appeal," read a club statement. "Empoli do not have a licence to play in the UEFA Cup. The deadline for requesting a licence has expired, hence Milan could play in the 2006-07 competition."

tifoso-inter

16-07-2006, 11:46 AM

I've been saying juve are cheats for years.. everyone used to give me shit for it. Well all I can do is look down on all you juve fans now and laugh. you f-ckin cheats.

deviant

16-07-2006, 12:39 PM

I've been saying juve are cheats for years.. everyone used to give me shit for it. Well all I can do is look down on all you juve fans now and laugh. you f-ckin cheats.
your team is a fuckin cheat too idiot :rolleyes: VALENCIA I missed your dumbass welcome back

Splatypus

16-07-2006, 01:02 PM

The "good" news for Milan is that they might still be able to play in the UEFA cup.

Empoli have said the process is underway to get the UEFA license, don't expect Milan to be in the UEFA Cup

kaku

16-07-2006, 02:41 PM

Empoli have said the process is underway to get the UEFA license, don't expect Milan to be in the UEFA Cup
Who really cares about the UEFA cup.Only for financial reasons i suppose.I believe Milan should concetrate on winning the scudeto. Playing once a week thus having well rested players it is possible even with the 15 pts penalty.

Btw, isn't it a bit too late for Empoli to work on it now?Unless ofcourse UEFA takes into account the special circumstances in Serie A.

Splatypus

16-07-2006, 02:54 PM

Who really cares about the UEFA cup.Only for financial reasons i suppose.I
Bingo!!!

Btw, isn't it a bit too late for Empoli to work on it now?Unless ofcourse UEFA takes into account the special circumstances in Serie A.
Empoili are hoping UEFA will grant it to them based on the circumstances

"We hope our request could be accepted, also due to the consideration of the extraordinary context which emerged after Friday evening's verdicts for the match-fixing scandal.
Sky (http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=403349&CPID=21&clid=695&lid=2&title=Empoli+to+apply+for+Uefa+spot)

alexdp2005

17-07-2006, 02:41 AM

The way in which everything took place makes one think that it almost had more to do with overthrowing a major football powerhouse that had simply become too dominant than fixing a faulty system. The sheer imbalance of the punishments certainly points to that motive. So does the imbalance of the investigation. Why were so many teams not investigated after having their phone calls intercepted revealing their active participation in this corrupt system? Inter’s president was overheard calling the same individuals Moggi called and for the same purposes for example, yet Inter were not further investigated. Roma’s elaborate gift-giving to referees surfaced as well; still no investigation. Milan’s system (which paralleled Moggi’s) was unveiled yet they remained in Serie A. Milan’s indirect sponsorship of Collina through OPEL was also revealed, yet no action was taken.

This was from an article on Goal.com.

This whole thing is nothing but an excuse to take Juve's power away. I wish Juve would leave Italian football, and go play in another country where they'll be appreciated. Screw the FIGC and Serie A.

cityblues

17-07-2006, 02:50 AM

This was from an article on Goal.com.

This whole thing is nothing but an excuse to take Juve's power away. I wish Juve would leave Italian football, and go play in another country where they'll be appreciated. Screw the FIGC and Serie A.

:rolleyes:

a) even if you were innocent on this matter, I'd still laugh at you, or any of the G-14 clubs to be stripped of their power cause you guys have too much power (all 16, or however many in the G-14 there are now), period.

b) you weren't innocent...so quit whining.

phat

17-07-2006, 04:07 AM

b) you weren't innocent...so quit whining.

All the teams involved were doing the same. It seems it was the system that was corrupted and not the teams.

Perfect examples of it's corruption:

Galianni being the GM of Milan and VP of the FIGC at the same time. Why was that allowed???

There are many other teams under investigation. They simply prioritized the top clubs for UEFA's sake.

tifoso-inter

17-07-2006, 10:32 AM

deviant

17-07-2006, 12:53 PM

it's funny how americans or canadians, or, whatever real nationality these people are, seem to know everything that goes on in Italy.

fact: juve are convicted cheats
fact: juve fans should now shut up
its even more funny how I know more about your club than you.

fact: Inter was also caught talking to the ref before the Valencia match of the 04/05 season

fact: your an idiot and the perfect example of a classless, brainless moron that makes your club look bad along with your idiotic manager why dont you take a lesson from Labfm you might learn somthing thats only if the rock you have in your brain lets you comprehend anything thats being said to you.

Labfm1

17-07-2006, 03:21 PM

why dont you take a lesson from Labfm you might learn somthing

YEAH!!

:D

Mark the Goalkeeper

17-07-2006, 08:26 PM

I wish Juve would leave Italian football, and go play in another country where they'll be appreciated. Screw the FIGC and Serie A.

First of all, what are you talking about?
Juventus FC is an Italian club and will always remain that way. It is my hometown team and so please don't go around suggesting Juventus should go to another country, I mean is that even possible?!

I know u are mad about this whole misfortune that's going on with our beloved club, but please, don't let that take over your reasoning.

alexdp2005

17-07-2006, 09:19 PM

Juventus FC is an Italian club and will always remain that way

Correction: Juventus ARE Italian football. Juventus ARE Serie A. Amazing how the prosecutors, with such ease, would condemn the country's most prestigous and most important team. All the while overlooking other teams involvment. Why? Because they want to stop Juventus domination... They just cant see Juve be the best team in Italia.

and btw to the Inter fan above, (im trying very hard not to curse you), I'm not American or Canadian or whatever you think. As a matter of fact I have to wonder where u urself are from... maybe China? or Uzbekistan? or England? or Italy? does it really matter? Such statement are racist and should not be seen in football.

cityblues

17-07-2006, 09:23 PM

Correction: Juventus ARE Italian football. Juventus ARE Serie A.

Not anymore... ;) :rolleyes:

Why? Because they want to stop Juventus domination...

If I were a fan of some midtable Seria A club I'd ream you out right now, but I'm not so I won't.

Anyway, don't do the crime if you can't pay the time...even if EVERY other club did it, but didn't get caught you still deserve the punishment...it's just that everyone else deserves it too...and you cannot prove what you say. Man up, and deal with it.

fcb_sandy05

17-07-2006, 09:26 PM

narduch

17-07-2006, 09:38 PM

Correction: Juventus ARE Italian football. Juventus ARE Serie A.

This is the type of disgusting attitude that allowed Juventus to cheat for so long.

Amazing how the prosecutors, with such ease, would condemn the country's most prestigous and most important team. All the while overlooking other teams involvment. Why? Because they want to stop Juventus domination... They just cant see Juve be the best team in Italia.

Juventus aren't the victims here. They are guilty and they are rightfully being relegated for the illegal referee syndicate that Moggi created. If it wasn't for this system, Juve never would have dominated Serie A like they did.

Ziegler1988

17-07-2006, 10:05 PM

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul17h.html
Lens wants Palermo's place in the Champions League.
Their basis is that seventh, eighth placed teams will be in the champions league.
Nice try, but no chance its gonna happen.
Tottnumb made the same claim :D:
Tottenham Hotspur have made an audacious attempt to gain a Champions League place after Juventus, Fiorentina & Lazio were all relegated.

After being charged with match fixing, four Italian clubs have been ousted from European football as part of their punishment & it is now being understood that Tottenham Hotspur have applied to change countries in a last ditch attempt to gain entry to the Champions League.

Martin Jol said,

'We finished widsh more pointsh than Italian schide, Chievo, scho we descherve a placsh in der Championsch League'

'Even though we had ours food poischioned by Asrchnal fansch lascht season, we schtill only juscht mischt out on a placsh.'

'We will now apply to become a Scherie-A schide and with the pointsh we won last season, we would have finished with enough pointsh to claim fifth placsh, and widsh thosch four teamsch misching out on European footschball, we will be in der Championsch League'

Tottenham fans have spoken out against the move, seemingly not wanting to move from North London, but instead seek to have the entire Italian league moved to England. However they insist that all teams must remain outside North London because no other teams are allowed to hail from that area.

Daniel Levy is writing his appeal letter as we speak.

phat

18-07-2006, 01:58 AM

If it wasn't for this system, Juve never would have dominated Serie A like they did.

You know what Narduch, your fucken BS ANTI-JUVE is making my stomach turn. FFS Galianni was the VP of the FIGC, you fucken very well know they are as guilty as anyone.

Moggi has been there for 12 years and won 7 scudettos. Juve have been at the TOP of Serie A for 109 years. With 27 SCUDETTO'S from 1929-2006, that's over 1/3 time they were CHAMPS. This means they won 20 before Lucky Luciano even joined the club. Take away all 7 under is reign and we are still ahead of Milan by 3!

narduch

18-07-2006, 02:05 AM

You know what Narduch, your fucken BS ANTI-JUVE is making my stomach turn. FFS Galianni was the VP of the FIGC, you fucken very well know they are as guilty as anyone.

I'm not anti-Juve. I'm pro-fairness.

I agree, I think its stupid to have had the president of a club running the league. I would like to see all the conflicts of interest removed from Italian soccer. I guess I'm just a dreamer though.

tifoso-inter

18-07-2006, 02:41 PM

http://www.bastardidentro.it/misc/bastardidentro/data/images/img_c9eaebe2db4cbc7832ebbc65aafcf4da1153219784.jpg

Labfm1

18-07-2006, 05:14 PM

http://www.bastardidentro.it/misc/bastardidentro/data/images/img_c9eaebe2db4cbc7832ebbc65aafcf4da1153219784.jpg

very funny.........
i want that as my sig
lol

vemerez

18-07-2006, 05:31 PM

Coming back here and thinking about it a bit more, I believe no Milian and no Juventus in the Champion League will be huge. I don't support either of these teams, but their abscense will be missed.
But I will watch the Serie A to see how it develops now that the old lady is out.
Id like to see a team like Palermo start it up :D

Mark the Goalkeeper

18-07-2006, 11:19 PM

http://www.bastardidentro.it/misc/bastardidentro/data/images/img_c9eaebe2db4cbc7832ebbc65aafcf4da1153219784.jpg
Yes, mock us while you can. We will be back in Serie A before Inter can even get a whiff of that scudetto.

deviant

19-07-2006, 02:48 AM

http://www.remegroup.nl/afs/specials/milanmilan/06.jpg
lol we'll just see who the fuck is laughing this season. :D

tifoso-inter

19-07-2006, 03:38 AM

Obviously inter fans will be laughing? Inter will win the scudetto. juventus will finish mid-table in Serie B.

I think I'll be laughing.

deviant

19-07-2006, 04:18 AM

Obviously inter fans will be laughing? Inter will win the scudetto. juventus will finish mid-table in Serie B.

I think I'll be laughing.
hahahaha thats the funny part you so blindly believe it believe me by mid season your going to suck serie A nut sack Inter cant even pay for a scudetto you act as life Juve were the only ones to beat Inter last season :rolleyes: you think we were the only problem your going to eat pure shame this season this is going to be the biggest test ever. The funniest thing will be if you DONT win it the entire Serie A will be laughing at how pathetic you really are.

Labfm1

19-07-2006, 05:18 AM

hahahaha thats the funny part you so blindly believe it believe me by mid season your going to suck serie A nut sack Inter cant even pay for a scudetto you act as life Juve were the only ones to beat Inter last season :rolleyes: you think we were the only problem your going to eat pure shame this season this is going to be the biggest test ever. The funniest thing will be if you DONT win it the entire Serie A will be laughing at how pathetic you really are.

i like how with all your arrogance and hatred toward inter that you acknowledge that there is a possibility...

i'm done...peace out

:cool:

Jason

19-07-2006, 05:33 AM

Inter has the most to gain, and the most to lose I think is what deviantmexa means, in a much more smack talking way ;) I agree

Juve is and always has been class, anyone thinking they've come to their position purely by means of cheating are delusional

conversaation's getting a bit personal here and there, be great if we could keep that to a minimum, delusional bosting is one thing, flame wars another. Keep in mind that some days there's just not much to talk about and that may be a great opportunity to go do something else besides posting ;)

deviant

19-07-2006, 06:02 AM

i like how with all your arrogance and hatred toward inter that you acknowledge that there is a possibility...

i'm done...peace out

:cool:
there is a difference between arrogance and confidence. ;) well there better be a possibility all you inter milanos cant stop talking about it.

narduch

19-07-2006, 02:24 PM

In an attempt to put some sanity back in this thread, some new developments:

Empoli have been denied a UEFA licence by the FIGC. Milan are trying to claim the vacant UC spot.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul19d.html

There are suggestions that Inter will receive the 2005/2006 Scudetto within the next 10 days. I guess this means the 2004/2005 season will be considered to have no Champion.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul19e.html

More teams are about to come under fire. New phone taps will incriminate 2 more clubs.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul19f.html

Keep in mind that there are still 3 clubs that are facing judgement: Siena, Reggina and Messina. These cases were initially delayed to take care of the teams involved in Euro competitions first.

tifoso-inter

19-07-2006, 04:21 PM

alexdp2005

19-07-2006, 04:28 PM

If it wasn't for this system, Juve never would have dominated Serie A like they did.

Your kidding, right? No, no, seriously, youre kidding right? 29 championships since the beggining of the Serie A, which btw Juve helped create, 29 championships, over 109 years, Italy's most prestigous team, and u say they've done that by cheating? and that over 109 years... Funny, seriously, u should keep it up. Juve dominated Serie A cuz they were all ways the best and always had the best. Do u even know how many of the world's greatest players came from Juve? Platini, Zidane, Henry, Paulo Rossi, Baggio, ... the list is so long i cant even remeber it.

saha2001

19-07-2006, 04:29 PM

Obviously inter fans will be laughing? Inter will win the scudetto. juventus will finish mid-table in Serie B.

I think I'll be laughing.

Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
As if Inter are capable of winning a scudetto on the pitch. Get real dude! Once a looser always a looser :D

narduch

19-07-2006, 04:38 PM

Your kidding, right? No, no, seriously, youre kidding right? 29 championships since the beggining of the Serie A, which btw Juve helped create, 29 championships, over 109 years, Italy's most prestigous team, and u say they've done that by cheating? and that over 109 years... Funny, seriously, u should keep it up. Juve dominated Serie A cuz they were all ways the best and always had the best. Do u even know how many of the world's greatest players came from Juve? Platini, Zidane, Henry, Paulo Rossi, Baggio, ... the list is so long i cant even remeber it.

I'm talking about the Moggi era. Not their entire history.

If you can't accept that your team has been cheating for the last few years, then I truely feel sorry for you.

Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
As if Inter are capable of winning a scudetto on the pitch. Get real dude! Once a looser always a looser :D

Um, and intimidating referees is an example of winning on the pitch as well, right?

cityblues

19-07-2006, 04:44 PM

We need to creat a Seria B song for the Juve numpties on here...they're very annoying, and just not very bright at times :rolleyes: :p

Labfm1

19-07-2006, 04:57 PM

this is my last time trying to speak to you guys sensibly...

it took me a while to realize it, but now i do..

you guys are just blind followers of a team and have no concept or idea of your team's history, nor the history of football....

when saha2001 says shit like this Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
As if Inter are capable of winning a scudetto on the pitch. Get real dude! Once a looser always a looser :D and this is also echoed by a number of other juve fans as well as other supporters, you really make yourself look stupid...

how can Inter be a losing team but be the third best domestic team in Italian football history, with 13 scudetti?
how can Inter be a losing team when they will now be the ONLY team in EUROPE, to have never been relegated?

So Juventus is the best domestic Italian team, with 27 scudetti. Look at your teams history ffs.
(1) There was a period between 1905 and 1926 where Juve won NO SCUDETTO! That is 21 years. Are they losers because of this?
(2) There was a period between 1985 and 1996 where Juve won NO SCUDETTO! That's 11 years. Are they losers because of this?

Look at AC Milan's history.
(1) There was a period between 1907 and 1950 where they won NO SCUDETTO! That is an astonishing 43 years. Are they losers because of this?
(2) There was a period between 1968 and 1978 without a scudetto. That's 10 years. After that 1 win, there was another 10 years before they won again in 1988.

AC Milan has won 6 scudetti since Inter last won. AC has 17 in all and Inter with 13. That means that prior to 1989, Inter had more scudetti.

What is my point?
If you look at the history of football, you'll realize that even the greatest teams go through long periods where they win nothing. It doesn't mean they are losers but they are going through tough times but because they are a great team, they will somehow again, start back their winning ways.

I am honestly tired of you guys picking at Inter, when they are going through a bad period, even when YOUR TEAM has gone through bad periods before.
Your arguments/statements about Inter have no grounds and is just something petty. Either you guys are extremely arrogant or just following the bandwagon of everybody crashing Inter.

Look at Liverpool....they had an almost 20 year hiatus but now they are running and in the thick of things again..

if this doesn't give you guys some kinda insight, then there is no point for me discuss the quality of teams with ya'll..

I'm outta here..

DriveShot

19-07-2006, 05:11 PM

Nice post, repped for sure.
Im amazed at how these Juve fans are lashing out because they are in Serie B and might end up in Serie C next year.

saha2001

19-07-2006, 05:28 PM

Um, and intimidating referees is an example of winning on the pitch as well, right?

How about having 8 actual Juventinos in the 2006 FIFA WC FINAL? Plus 3 ex Juve players? C'mon for God's sakes! Are you telling me that such players DO NOT deserve a league title???
As for the "historian interista" I was talking about "the losing mentality" of inter owners and players in the last 16 years, and yes INTER are losers despite being 3rd in the table, Do you know why? because inter are "historically" known as the Juventus rivals! so not being able to take a league title of juve's hands "you'r rival" (in 16 consecutive years) is losing.

And it would be apreciated if you stop calling juventus fans "stupid" because non of us is, unless you are looking forward to recive a proper answer for your words.

nobuzz

19-07-2006, 05:41 PM

they (the players) probably do, the team that cheated does not deserve it at all.

The saddest part is with all the talent Juve has they still felt it necessary to cheat.

narduch

19-07-2006, 05:41 PM

How about having 8 actual Juventinos in the 2006 FIFA WC FINAL? Plus 3 ex Juve players? C'mon for God's sakes! Are you telling me that such players DO NOT deserve a league title???

If a team cheats to win, it doesn't matter how 'great' their players are. They still cheated, and they still deserve to be punished.

Seems to me you would like to have the championships decided based on how strong teams are. Let's not even bother playing the games then, lets just hand out the titles to the teams that can amass the greatest amount of talent. That seems like the best way to make you happy.

saha2001

19-07-2006, 06:00 PM

Seems to me you would like to have the championships decided based on how strong teams are. Let's not even bother playing the games then, lets just hand out the titles to the teams that can amass the greatest amount of talent. That seems like the best way to make you happy.

Not at all! But it's not fair to ignore the quality of the players by saying that they are not capable of winning things on the pitch.

With all honesty clubs that cheat shuld be punished! I agree, But in the case of juventus it's unfair for the players who really did well through out the season, remeber that they almost secured the scuddeto since feb 06 after beating Inter 1-2 at the san siro.

Despite everything I'm proud to be juventino, Even in serie C.

narduch

19-07-2006, 06:07 PM

Not at all! But it's not fair to ignore the quality of the players by saying that they are not capable of winning things on the pitch.

With all honesty clubs that cheat shuld be punished! I agree, But in the case of juventus it's unfair for the players who really did well through out the season, remeber that they almost secured the scuddeto since feb 06 after beating Inter 1-2 at the san siro.

Despite everything I'm proud to be juventino, Even in serie C.

I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that Juventus is totally capable of winning the scudetto on merit alone. The problem is, because of the scandal, their achievements of the last few seasons are going to be muddied forever.

Mark the Goalkeeper

19-07-2006, 06:17 PM

A team from Turin has always been in Serie A: Fact

narduch

19-07-2006, 06:20 PM

A team from Turin has always been in Serie A: Fact

Does this mean you're switching allegiances now? :D

Mark the Goalkeeper

20-07-2006, 07:40 PM

Does this mean you're switching allegiances now? :D
No way man, a lot of my cousins support Torino but I'm a true Juventino and always will be. I'm already getting shit from them everyday now that Torino is in Serie A and Juve in Serie B. But i just give them the chin...hehehe. Juve will always be better than Torino. Forza Juve. Juventino per sempre!

barcalove

20-07-2006, 08:44 PM

Like the crooks in the movies, mafia guys included, they spend long periods in happiness, content with their evil ways and prospering unfairly on others, they allll end up unhappy and they either die, get punished or, die...

This is like a movie. Juventus is the bad guy, finally they are being served justice.

Inter is finally going to be able to play on a level playing field. Thanks to God for this.
inter has a great team shaping up for next season.. if they dont win it, it will be kind of funny and kind of sad. the only team that really stands in their way is roma and they are more than capable of beating inter to the scudetto.

phat

21-07-2006, 03:02 PM

So Juventus is the best domestic Italian team, with 27 scudetti. Look at your teams history ffs.
(1) There was a period between 1905 and 1926 where Juve won NO SCUDETTO! That is 21 years. Are they losers because of this?

Funny how you think you know what your talking about. Between 1905 and 1929 there was many different leagues in Italy. Officialy these years are not accounted as Serie A championships.

No way man, a lot of my cousins support Torino but I'm a true Juventino and always will be. I'm already getting shit from them everyday now that Torino is in Serie A and Juve in Serie B. But i just give them the chin...hehehe. Juve will always be better than Torino. Forza Juve. Juventino per sempre!

Sono cento anni che
ve lo prendete nel culo..
toro toro vaffanculo..toro toro vaffanculo

Mark the Goalkeeper

21-07-2006, 08:42 PM

Funny how you think you know what your talking about. Between 1905 and 1929 there was many different leagues in Italy. Officialy these years are not accounted as Serie A championships.

Sono cento anni che
ve lo prendete nel culo..
toro toro vaffanculo..toro toro vaffanculo
Quella è la verità LOL :D

narduch

25-07-2006, 12:19 PM

The appeal verdicts should be handed out today.
http://channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul25a.html
The Gazzetta site said 20:00 (2:00 pm EST).

There's a possibitily that they may only announce the European competition status only today, and the rest of the verdict tomorrow.

narduch

25-07-2006, 03:55 PM

It looks like Juve will now be shelving their Delle Alpi renovations as well.
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul25i.html

They will play in the smaller Olympic stadium next year, but use the Delle Alpi for big games.

kaku

25-07-2006, 08:27 PM

The appeal verdicts are in.Juve in Serie B but had their penalty reduced to 17 points.Lazio, Fiorentina in Serie A and Milan will play in the Champions League!!!

Milan -8 points, Lazio -11 and Fiorentina -19 in the new championship.

Labfm1

25-07-2006, 08:28 PM

milan playing CL??

are u sure???

narduch

25-07-2006, 08:29 PM

This is how Europe will look:

Inter -- CL Group Stage
Roma -- CL Group Stage
Milan -- CL Preliminary
Chievo -- CL Preliminary
---------
Palermo -- UEFA Cup
Livorno -- UEFA Cup
Parma -- UEFA Cup

cndz

25-07-2006, 08:32 PM

so who does last season's title go to?

Labfm1

25-07-2006, 08:33 PM

yep....just read it on skysports and channel4....

i guess it is kinda the right judgement for fiorentina and lazio to be back up...

ready for serie A next season!

ps..just a question and not trolling, but since Juve is officially NOT in serie A, will they be mentioned on the description of this forum (Serie A)?

kaku

25-07-2006, 08:33 PM

milan playing CL??

are u sure???
http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Altro_Calcio/Primo_Piano/2006/07_Luglio/25/lancetto.shtml

narduch

25-07-2006, 08:44 PM

Article in English:
http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jul25n.html

cityblues

25-07-2006, 08:46 PM

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=405653&CPID=21&clid=128&lid=4161&title=JUVE+DEMOTED,+DUO+REPRIEVED

Italy was a joke...for a week wasn't, and once again is...never again will I watch a Seria A match (though I think I've only seen one previously)

Fac1

25-07-2006, 08:48 PM

Definitely should have kept the punishments as is, loosening up on the penalties is not a good idea when the system needs a good purge..

But hey, Milan are big winners in this, so I'm happy as a fan..

DriveShot

25-07-2006, 08:51 PM

I had a feeling they were going to lessen the charges. I have no idea about the evidence against Lazio and Fiorentina but Im glad Milan gets to play some European football, the evidence really looked weak against them.

Labfm1

25-07-2006, 08:53 PM

well i know one thing for sure...

juve fans will be crying foul...

phat

25-07-2006, 09:06 PM

Total bullshit.

Zico

25-07-2006, 09:32 PM

Definitely should have kept the punishments as is, loosening up on the penalties is not a good idea when the system needs a good purge..

I agree with this part of your post only :)

I still think that the initial punishment was appropriate, it set a huge precedent to organizing football games... unfortunately now it looks like it was a slap on the wrist.

Juve will be back in Serie A next season, Lazio & Fiorentina will just have to live with this season, Milan gets to play a longer campaign (qualifying for CL) :eek: Its really sad :mad:

narduch

25-07-2006, 09:41 PM

I think the punishments are actually fair for all the teams, except Fiorentina.

Fiorentina should be in Serie B along with Juventus.

Lazio's only crime was complaining after some bad calls.

The evidence against Milan was tenuous at best.

Vip

25-07-2006, 10:00 PM

It certainly feels a lot better for Milan, but Juve are still fuct with -17 to start. But the reduction does open a door for Juve to fight for a return to Serie A next year.

All these deduction of points will make Serie A really interesting ... Inter and Roma have a great chance of winning the scudetto.

But then, no champion for last season? I think is BS. Inter deserved to have the title.

One thing is sure ... GolTV better get a contract for Serie B, UR-GEN-TLY!!! Myself will be glued to the couch if they do so. :D

.

Supa

25-07-2006, 10:50 PM

Pretty sad to see this reversal, so as Zico said it is mostly just a slap on the wrist. I think this decision hurts the image of Italian football even more.

sweed

25-07-2006, 11:01 PM

italy managed to screw up. congrats on making your league a joke again.

sccr_11

25-07-2006, 11:10 PM

OME, July 25 (Reuters) - The relegation of Juventus to Serie B for their role in a match-fixing scandal was confirmed by an Italian soccer appeal court on Tuesday but Lazio and Fiorentina received a reprieve and will stay in Serie A.

FrancoOriglia/GettyImages
The Federal Appeals Commission President Cesare Ruperto reads the scandal verdicts

AC Milan will also remain in the top flight as decided at a previous hearing but with a smaller number of points deducted - minus eight rather than minus 15.

Crucially, the six-times European champions will now be entered for the third qualifying round of the Champions League after their points penalty on last season's tally was reduced.

Juventus and Fiorentina said they would appeal against the latest decision.

Juve did receive some clemency with the appeals court reducing the penalty points they start next season with from minus 30 to minus 17.

They will also have to play three matches at a neutral venue and have been fined 120,000 euros.

The decision to revoke the last two Italian league titles won by Juventus in 2005 and 2006 was confirmed by the appeals court although no decision has yet been made on who will be declared champions for those two seasons.

With the various points penalties and Juve's relegation, Inter Milan come out on top of last season's standings but it is not yet clear if the title will be awarded to them as it may be left unallocated.

While not the kind of change Juventus had hoped for the reduction does give them a chance to push for promotion back to the top flight Serie A next season.

But the saga may not yet be over as Juventus said they intended to continue to appeal against the decision, raising the prospect that their case could end up in a civil court.

Chairman Giovanni Cobolli Gigli said in a club statement: 'We absolutely cannot accept this sentence. For this reason we have decided to push our case in every possible forum'.

The first step Juve could take is to turn to the Italian Olympic Committee and should they remain dissatisfied they could then appeal to a regional civil court - a potentially protracted process.

Fiorentina also said they did not accept the decision with club owner Diego Della Valle saying: ' We haven't done anything and we will go down every avenue to clear our name'.

The appeal court overturned a tribunal's decision to relegate Fiorentina and Lazio, allowing them to stay in Serie A next season but with a heavy penalty.

Fiorentina will start the new season with minus 19 points and Lazio with minus 11 points. Fiorentina must play three matches at a neutral ground, Lazio two matches and both were also fined 120,000 euros.

Both clubs also had 30 point penalties imposed on their tallies from last season, removing them from any of the European competition slots.

AC Milan's penalty points for next season were reduced from minus 15 to minus eight and the retrospective punishment on last season's points tally was reduced from minus 44 to minus 30.

Italy's two teams automatically entered in the Champions League next season will be Inter Milan and AS Roma. AC Milan and Chievo Verona will play in the qualification round.

Palermo, Livorno and Parma will take part in the UEFA Cup.

No decision has yet been taken on who will be handed Juve's place in the top flight as Italian rules are far from clear on the procedure.

Should the league table be used as the basis for deciding who is reprieved then Sicilian club Messina, who finished third from bottom in Serie A last season, would be saved.

Lecce and Treviso are the clubs to lose out following the appeals verdict.

The pair, who finished last season as the two bottom clubs in Serie A, were reinstated to the top flight - along with 18th-placed Messina - after the original verdict.

But with Fiorentina and Lazio back in Serie A, Lecce and Treviso return to the second tier.

Messina stay up, with Juventus failing in their bid to climb back into the top flight.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=374375&cc=5901

Monne

25-07-2006, 11:29 PM

oh my they made themselves look like clowns now!

Mark the Goalkeeper

25-07-2006, 11:58 PM

We have not yet begun to fight!

phat

26-07-2006, 04:41 AM

This entire ordeal is becoming more and more embarrassing for Italy. The way things seem, maybe he should buy the judge and end this embarrassment:eek: . (I'm being sarcastic)

Juventus to appeal relegation ruling again

ROME, July 25 (Reuters) - Juventus said they would take further legal action after the appeals court in Italy's match-fixing scandal confirmed the club's relegation to the second-tier Serie B division on Tuesday.

The appeals court showed some clemency, reducing their points penalty from 30 to 17 points, but failed to lift the Turin giants back into the top Serie A division.

'We absolutely cannot accept this sentence,' Juventus chairman Giovanni Cobolli Gigli was quoted as saying on the club's website.

'Worst of all, we have been given a penalty which seriously prejudices next season.'

Fiorentina owner Diego Della Valle also raised the possibility that his club would make a further appeal in the civil courts.

Fiorentina were readmitted to Serie A with a 19-point penalty, but were a long way from regaining their place in next season's Champions League.

'It's the first step. We haven't done anything and we will go down every avenue to clear our name,' Della Valle said as he left Rome's Hotel Parco Dei Principi, where the court delivered its verdicts.

'Now we will go to all the opportune courts to remove any shadow of guilt and give back what they have taken from us.'

The news that Lazio had also been reinstated in Serie A - though with an 11-point penalty - was greeted with a huge cheer from a crowd of about 300 fans gathered outside the hotel.

The club's president Claudio Lotito, however, appeared less pleased.

'I'm not satisfied at all. Lazio has not broken any rule,' he told Italian state broadcaster RAI.

'The fact that we will not be taking part in the UEFA Cup (for finishing sixth in Serie A last season) is not in line with the truth'.

The fourth club involved, AC Milan, have not yet commented after having their sentence reduced to allow them to play in next season's Champions League qualification round.

The EPL is next!

UEFA slam flawed English referee system

UEFA claim the English system for appointing referees is 'in breach' of the continental and global statutes for the sport and leaves the Premiership and Football League open to a Serie A-style corruption scandal.

The Premier League, Football League and Football Association are equal stakeholders in Professional Game Match Officials (PGMO), the body which oversees the appointment of referees, a position which UEFA regards as illegal.

The organisation's director of communications William Gaillard told The Guardian: 'Referees should be appointed completely independently of clubs and leagues.

'Leagues not complying with that are in breach of UEFA and FIFA statutes. The PGMO is a breach of these statutes. In England the response is to say we are more honest (than in Italy) but we do not think this is good enough.

'There should be a systemic answer; people have to answer how and why a repeat of Calciopoli (the Italian scandal) is impossible under their system. We have had no such response from anywhere.'

The Premier League insist PGMO operates at arm's length from them, with PGMO general manager Keith Hackett the man in sole charge of refereeing appointments.

'We have set up an entirely independent structure for refereeing,' said a league spokesman.

'The Football League, Premier League and FA representatives on the PGMO board all have an equal say in how it is run and an equal vote.'

In Italy, Juventus, AC Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina were all found guilty of exerting an influence on refereeing appointments and in the case of all but Milan were demoted to Serie B with varying points deductions.

The outcome of the quartet's appeals against their respective punishments - with Milan originally allowed to stay in Serie A but docked 30 points - is expected today.

May261999

26-07-2006, 04:57 AM

Way to get tough and send a message there by the appeals court.

And now Juve wants to put in a further appeal? Give me a break.

Yusuf

26-07-2006, 05:00 AM

Bullshit, irst they punish them in worst possible way and then go easy on them, change of heart after the appeals. Corrupt clubs should be punished severly and so should the people.

imperialfrost

26-07-2006, 05:55 AM

the verdict is just another joke . italian football is dead for me. i only wonder why uefa hasnt started investigating all the CL games of juventus yet. if they have tried to fix games in seria a...they most likely have tried that in CL too.
i want to see italian teams get banned for europe 5 years so that we dont have to see those morons on tv anymore

eurotrash

26-07-2006, 08:47 AM

Hahahahaha, wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!:D :D :D

Oops, sorry, I almost forgot the mandatory "Italian football is a joke, never gonna watch it again".:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DanneS

26-07-2006, 11:42 AM

Well, I'll be watching some Italian football but the fun of it has almost disappeared because of all this BS.

I hope a rejuvenated Juventus will be back to whip Milans and Inters *sses soon enough and that Luciano Moggi and Antonio Giraudo will rot in hell. :mad:

I'm going to concentrate on La Liga and Premier League this season.

narduch

26-07-2006, 12:22 PM

I think the indignation against the appeal verdict is a little overboard from some on this forum.

Too many people read 'match fixing' and they automatically believe all the clubs have equal levels of guilt, which is not true. Further, this is not 'match fixing' in the classic sense. There was no suitcase full of money exchanging hands. Juve was running a system of fear and indimidation with the referees. I like to call it a referee syndicate.

The bottom line is this, only one team is really getting off easy, and that's Fiorentina. Fiorentina should be in Serie B, because they clearly went to Moggi when their season was in jeopardy.

Juve's punishment should have been harsher, but I can live with it. It is still pretty harsh when you consider the financial implications it means to them.

As for Milan and Lazio, they are both guilty by association here. The biggest crime they committed was calling up the referee designator to bitch and complain after some bad calls against them.

One final point, the actual trial was a sham. The only evidence that was allowed in was transcripts of the wiretaps, that's it. The teams were not allowed to bring in their own evidence. There was no due process. This is why some of the teams are going to continue to appeal. Sure, it won't get them back in Europe, but it will finally give them a fair trial. If you were fighting a murder charge under such conditions, you would be pissed too.

mambo

26-07-2006, 02:08 PM

I thought its 9 clubs involved in the scandal
and now only 1 club is punished ?
What kind of justice is that :confused:

narduch

26-07-2006, 02:25 PM

I thought its 9 clubs involved in the scandal
and now only 1 club is punished ?
What kind of justice is that :confused:

The judgement for the first four teams was handed out first, so that the UEFA qualifiers could be decided by the deadline.

The other teams involved are being tried right now. Reggina is thought to be in the most trouble.

Labfm1

26-07-2006, 02:56 PM

I thought its 9 clubs involved in the scandal
and now only 1 club is punished ?
What kind of justice is that :confused:

being involved with the scandal and DIRECT EVIDENCE are two different things..

juventus (Moggi) has the MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE against them, hence their penalty is the worst

DriveShot

26-07-2006, 04:43 PM

narduch

26-07-2006, 04:53 PM

For all of those that are upset, please remember that Juventus has received the harshest punishment I've ever seen for 'match fixing'. (I could be wrong though, my research still seems to show that this is the worst I could find, if anyone out there can correct me on this, please do so).

Even Marsaille, in 1993 didn't receive a punishment even as close to what Juve just got. The were eventually relegated for 'financial irregularities' and not match fixing. The France Federation didn't even punish the team enough, UEFA had to step in and remove Marseille from the following CL.

Like I said previously, the only real tragedy here is Fiorentina's survival. The wiretaps show they tried to fix a match to avoid relegation.

All these Milan conspiracies are bullshit. People who do not know any background on this issue are simply lumping all of the 4 accused teams together. This is unfair.

Edit: Just to add a bit of news, UEFA is contemplating Milan's CL fate. They will have a special meeting to decided whether or not to allow them into the CL.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aq3mwjJj0luqGKa2nEhDCm8mw7YF?slug=reu-championsmilan&prov=reuters&type=lgns

fcb_sandy05

26-07-2006, 05:00 PM

phat

27-07-2006, 03:18 AM

As for Milan and Lazio, they are both guilty by association here. The biggest crime they committed was calling up the referee designator to bitch and complain after some bad calls against them.

Milan did not have to fix anything, Gallianni took care of everything from his chair on the FIGC. Lazio on the other hand needed everything possible on their side to stay out of B and "stay in business". They and Viola have already gone belly up once...

narduch

27-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Milan have been allowed into the CL draw, for the time being.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=64/newsId=440000.html

On August 2, Uefa will make a final decision on their inclusion. No decision has been made on Milan's replacement if they are banned.

phat

28-07-2006, 06:15 AM

karmaf1

28-07-2006, 06:33 AM

They should be denied.

I have to agree with this, Since they're in Palermo lost their place in the CL wich is sad because they're a very nice tema to watch.

Peppowski

30-07-2006, 05:02 PM

As for Milan and Lazio, they are both guilty by association here. The biggest crime they committed was calling up the referee designator to bitch and complain after some bad calls against them.

oh please...
Milan even had a Manager hired for that "work", a Manager that asked several times"i want THAT referee"..
Lazio's case is more similar to Fiorentinas one, they both were forced to face Moggi's power..
Milan had it's own

narduch

01-08-2006, 12:06 PM

Here's an extensive article in English on the scandal. It was printed before the appeals though.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1833315,00.html

phat

01-08-2006, 09:51 PM

oh please...
Milan even had a Manager hired for that "work", a Manager that asked several times"i want THAT referee"..

Exactly... So much so that the actual investigators were afraid to go anywhere else but the media.

From narduch's link:

Though the allegations proved to be ungrounded, the investigating magistrates' wiretaps turned up what appeared to be evidence of something much bigger: the Moggi system. In the spring of this year, the Turin magistrates approached the nation's football authorities but swiftly realised that the governing bodies themselves were implicated. At that stage, the Prime Minister was still Silvio Berlusconi who, as the president and owner of AC Milan, one of the four big clubs in the line of fire, was not in favour of a public investigation. So, says Bondini, very quickly the magistrates turned to the press. The story, naturally, was front-page news.

talk2smc

08-01-2009, 02:48 PM

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jan8h.html

figured no need to create a new thread.
Moggi sentenced to jail time, as is his son.

eurotrash

08-01-2009, 03:18 PM

LOL, but I'm sure his prison time will be quite comfortable.

phat

08-01-2009, 04:07 PM

This sentence was not directly related to Farsopoli

But today's trial was related to his relationship with the GEA Soccer Management Agency, which influenced the Italian transfer market during the 1990s.

talk2smc

08-01-2009, 07:26 PM

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jan8m.html

love the line about golden goal:rolleyes: