Zeh German NT Shrine *Spoilers*

[sportsmen]

Referring to: 10 September 2009 - UEFA Women's Euro 2009 - England v Germany - Stadium feed - HTTP (http://www.fbtz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126174)

England v Germany
2-6

No additional files.

[macro]

wanted to make a thread in the "other sports" section about that^^
but i feared the revenge of willow so i sent out a very unchauvinistic
very well done gurls, love you all :)

http://www.duisburgweb.de/sportweb/FCR-bilder/041007%20%20%20wm_quartett1.jpg

[mambo]

Damn, our girls are so cold! England didnt deserved this.

[chaouki]

how can you say that...

someone who played that well simply deserves the win.
btw what's that matter with the english keeper, is she that small that she couldn't reach behringer's long-range shot and prinz header or is she simply an "english keeper" :D

[mambo]

how can you say that...

someone who played that well simply deserves the win.
btw what's that matter with the english keeper, is she that small that she couldn't reach behringer's long-range shot and prinz header or is she simply an "english keeper" :D


Because England was equally strong for most parts of the game and a 6:2 isnt very flattering.
That Behringer goal was amazing!! A 35 meters rocket directly under the crossbar ...are you kidding me :eek::D Didnt looked like a goalkeeping error to me, that shot was simply insane :eek:
By the way, Birgit Prinz scored both of her goals with her right foot, i dont think any Bundesliga-keeper would have been able to safe 1 of those.

edit: I always love Platinis face when german teams score goals. He isnt even trying to hide his disappointment! You can always read a big fat "MERDE!" from his face.

[mambo]

The DFB-squad for Russia: Again no Frings and Cacau instead of Kießling (WTF:confused:)
I dont think i will ever be a Fan of Löw :(


Goalkeepers: Rene Adler (Bayer Leverkusen), Manuel Neuer (FC Schalke 04), Tim Wiese (Werder Bremen)

Defense: Andreas Beck (1899 Hoffenheim), Jerome Boateng (Hamburger SV), Arne Friedrich (Hertha BSC), Philipp Lahm (FC Bayern München), Per Mertesacker (Werder Bremen), Marcel Schäfer (VfL Wolfsburg), Serdar Tasci (VfB Stuttgart), Heiko Westermann (FC Schalke 04)

Midfield: Michael Ballack (FC Chelsea), Christian Gentner (VfL Wolfsburg), Thomas Hitzlsperger (VfB Stuttgart), Sami Khedira (VfB Stuttgart), Marko Marin (Werder Bremen), Mesut Özil (Werder Bremen), Simon Rolfes (Bayer 04 Leverkusen), Bastian Schweinsteiger (FC Bayern München), Piotr Trochowski (Hamburger SV)

Striker: Cacau (VfB Stuttgart), Mario Gomez (FC Bayern München), Miroslav Klose (FC Bayern München), Lukas Podolski (1. FC Köln)

[RyFryy]

Know what the formation will be like? Perhaps two strikers? I would like to see us attack, attack, ATTACK!!

[mambo]

...I would like to see us attack, attack, ATTACK!!

Yeah me too :(

When i recall it correctly we played 451 in our last match against Azerbaijan with a lonely Gomez up front. My guess is thats also the direction for the Russia match because Azerbaijan - without disrespect (:)) - isnt more than a sparring partner.
Personally i dont like the 451 because i think our strikers are our best players, so i would love to see 2 of them up in front regularly .

[sweed]

why the hell isn't Kiessling getting called up?

I think we should stick with the 4-5-1. Considering who he picked, I think it'll be that again.

[macro]

neuer aka kid unreal :>
schaefer a.friedrich merte lahm
rolfes ballack
scheini oezil marin
gomez
equals win :>

[sweed]

switch oezil and schwein and I'm happy

[macro]

nope :D

[Fuschimuschi]

The excitment is going to be very unhealthy.

I will need lots of Ballantines to survive the game.

[RyFryy]

http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/design05/images/2009/1010/germanyreport20091010_350x197.jpg

:)

[jr!]

That's an awesome pic!

[sweed]

WE DID IT :)

not like it was ever in question anyways, but nice to know its official

[mambo]

The new kit
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-31333-galleryV9-xkrk.jpg

[DemocritusJr]

Saw the leaked shots a few weeks ago, but I like it more and more. My only wish is that there was a stronger presence of the Black-Red-Gold.

Any idea when the official launch is?

** Found the answer to my own question. Should be on sale now!

[macro]

my WC crew

helmes/gomes/poldi/klose
marin özil kroos müller
ballack
lahm merte boateng ?
neuer/adler
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[RyFryy]

No Kießling?

[macro]

well i iz drunk :o
ooooffffffff cause mfing kießling, love the guy

[mambo]

Frings is out :( Löw stopped by today to tell him.

[due]

Yeahi :) Old dude is old. Unless someone of the guys who are supposed to play gets injured, I totally agree with Löw's decision. Frings isn't really someone you could place on the bench for the whole tourney and then it's only fair to tell him up front.

I hope this means that we get to see Basti in central midfield :)

[macro]

Well, he had it coming i guess.
Löw still has a bit of a softie image, It's important he shows you can't fuck around with the boss. It's also not a huge loss for the team, we have a shitload of players that can play the "6".

[mambo]

To me hes still the best player that we have on the http://www.fbtz.com/forum/images/editor/menupop.gif6 :o But you are right its probably about the broken relationship. You can tell its not about Frings` performance because its still half a year to go to the World Cup. Otherwise Löw couldnt afford to do it right now.

Well, i know playing with the best team doesnt mean playing with the best 11 players. So lets hope Löw is doing the right thing (not convinced tbh, considering it comes down to see Hitzelsperger or Rolfes instead :0).

However, Frings can only blame hisself for this. Dropping all the crap in the newspapers back when he was benched once ...a player his age and experience should have known better.

Well, he had it coming i guess.
Löw still has a bit of a softie image, It's important he shows you can't fuck around with the boss. It's also not a huge loss for the team, we have a shitload of players that can play the "6".

[mambo]

kicker has the nominated squad

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6203/dfbi.jpg

[due]

Not quite the nominated squad for the WC yet - before anyone gets confused ;) Those are the guys that have been invited and are fit to take a performance test and do some marketing stuff.

Poldi, Westermann are injured and Ballack is missing because of Chelsea not allowing him to go for example.

[macro]

seems like we lost Rolfes, good thing we have Schweinsteiger playing the 6 quiet impressive at Bayern atm. Having him play double six with Ballack sounds tasty to me.

[due]

------------Adler------------
Boateng-Merte-Hummels-Lahm
-----Ballack---Schweini------
--Kroos-----------------Özil-
------Klose------Kießling-----

Or maybe Klose+Poldi? Kießling+Gomez? Not quite sure. The rest looks ok though ;)

[mambo]

I take it all, as long as we dont start playing with 1 striker again :mad:

seems like we lost Rolfes, good thing we have Schweinsteiger playing the 6 quiet impressive at Bayern atm. Having him play double six with Ballack sounds tasty to me.

[Übersuperduper]

------------Adler------------
Boateng-Merte-Hummels-Lahm
-----Ballack---Schweini------
--Kroos-----------------Özil-
------Klose------Kießling-----

Or maybe Klose+Poldi? Kießling+Gomez? Not quite sure. The rest looks ok though ;)

though some of these guys obviously won't be playing in the friendly, this is imho the best 11 for Germany right now:

-----------------Adler----------------
Beck-Mertesacker-Hummels-Lahm
----------------Rolfes-----------------
Ballack----------------------------Özil
----------------Kroos------------------
-------Gomez----------Kießling-------

[mambo]

Check out macros posting. Rolfes had knee surgery.

though some of these guys obviously won't be playing in the friendly, this is imho the best 11 for Germany right now:

-----------------Adler----------------
Beck-Mertesacker-Hummels-Lahm
----------------Rolfes-----------------
Ballack----------------------------Özil
----------------Kroos------------------
-------Gomez----------Kießling-------

[jr!]

would be nice to see Hummels get called up.
I wonder if Bayern are regretting selling him to BVB?

[due]

@Übersuperduper:

Beck, really? Have you seen him play this season? I'd rather see Hinkel again :) But right / left back is a little bit of a problem. Jansen is too offensive-minded to play at the back and we don't have a really good right back apart from Lahm. Maybe Riether?

@ jr!:

Not quite sure but I know one thing ... van Gaal wouldn't have allowed him to be sold ;) Nice buy :p

[macro]

@Übersuperduper:

Beck, really? Have you seen him play this season? I'd rather see Hinkel again :) But right / left back is a little bit of a problem. Jansen is too offensive-minded to play at the back and we don't have a really good right back apart from Lahm. Maybe Riether?


Uhhm hello, ever heard of the mighty Ochs??? :P ;)

[mambo]

I bet were going to see wingback Castro alot in the future. Hes just 22 or so and already played more than 100 Bundesliga matches. Hes has been one of Leverkusens cornerstones in the past seasons.

[sweed]

would be nice to see Hummels get called up.
I wonder if Bayern are regretting selling him to BVB?

probably, but he wouldn't have gotten as much playing time. oh well

[macro]

Meh, Löw didn't sign new contract because of financial differences and Bierhoff wants to have the right to veto the choice of a new NT coach which was denied by Zwanziger. :rolleyes:

[mambo]

The whole thing kind of sucks :(
As far as i have heard and read Bierhoff and the coaching staff suddenly demanded 1 annual salary as extra bonus payment as soon as they sign the new contract. That demand is probably something like a 10 million € package Löw & Co. pulled out of nowhere :eek: Man thats greedy :<

I say let the WC-tournament decide about it. If they win they can have the whole DFB pension fund :p

[Arg10]

Not sure how many of you are aware, but we face you guys next month(March 3) in Munich! Here's to a 2006 revenge.:mad::(:p

Should be a good test for both teams.

[macro]

taking on you argies gonna be a tough one.
hope we can take anything from it.
the only positive thing i can take from the whole Löw thing is that if the team wants to keep their coach they'll throw their all in.

[batig0al]

When is Germany going to play any friendlies to see how Low is thinking about playing in the world cup ?

[macro]

here you go
http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=11368

[RyFryy]

"Rene Adler is set to be Germany's first choice goalkeeper at this summer's World Cup in South Africa, the national side's goalkeeping coach said on Monday.

"We have complete trust in our three goalkeepers...but particularly in Rene," Andreas Koepke told reporters ahead of Germany's friendly match against Argentina on Wednesday.

"Rene Adler is ahead in the race to be number one at the moment. He has played brilliantly in the internationals he has done so far."

Adler, 25, plays Bayer Leverkusen and has represented his country eight times. The other two goalies in the squad are Manuel Neuer from Schalke and Werder Bremen's Tim Wiese, who is currently injured.

He is expected to start the game against Diego Maradona's side in Munich."

[batig0al]

Germany is so talented with goalkeepers. Best goalkeeping is in Bundesliga.

[due]

We might not have THE best GK today, but we sure don't have to worry about our keepers much ;) Adler, Neuer, Wiese, Lehmann, Butt - I'd trust to do a good job in the NT goal ... and some others with slightly less confidence :)

[Übersuperduper]

Adler and Neuer will be the best goalkeepers in the world in a few years if they continue their progress. I could easily see one or both of them going to England or Spain and being the #1 keeper at a top club in either league.

I'm also happy Kroos and Kiessling were invited, but don't know why Podolski is continued to be trusted when he's had such sub-par performances for his club lately. It reminds me of how Loew mistakingly trusted Metzelder based on his past rather than his current performances, and chose him for Euro08 when another defender on the pitch like Westermann could've done better. I honestly believe Thomas Muller is a better striker than Poldi nowadays and Herr Jogi should forget about past reputation and simply choose the best damn team for the WC. I also feel Kroos needs to be trusted for more than just a substitute role if he hopefully is chosen for the WC. He's shown what he can do at Leverkusen when he's given the chance to shine.

[AlexLFC]

...but don't know why Podolski is continued to be trusted when he's had such sub-par performances for his club lately. It reminds me of how Loew mistakingly trusted Metzelder based on his past rather than his current performances, and chose him for Euro08 when another defender on the pitch like Westermann could've done better. I honestly believe Thomas Muller is a better striker than Poldi nowadays and Herr Jogi should forget about past reputation and simply choose the best damn team for the WC. I also feel Kroos needs to be trusted for more than just a substitute role if he hopefully is chosen for the WC. He's shown what he can do at Leverkusen when he's given the chance to shine.

Podolski has Löws support, because he is a different player when playing for the NT. Remember when Podolski was at Bayern, and never played - he still got to play for the NT and he did very well. It is the trust in the player Podolski that makes him work in the NT, even though it is not going so well at Köln at the moment.

No, I agree with Löw: Podolski is one of the most important players for Germany, even if he is underperforming at his club (which he was before at Bayern as well!).

Can't believe the world cup is only 100 days away :)

[due]

At Köln, you can probably blame his lack of "shine" on "under-qualified" team members plus a very defensive strategy. Poldi works best when he's a) trusted (problem at Bayern) b) playing alongside other good / great players (like in the NT or when Heynckes used him in the last couple of matches at Bayern) c) not always coming from behind the halfway line.

He had his biggest success with Cologne in League 2 when they were tearing up the opposition -> attacking playing style. Since then he's either suffered from lack of trust, bad team or injuries.

And yes, like Klose, he belongs into the NT. Starting 11 probably.

[Übersuperduper]

So Poldi and Klose deserve to be in the starting 11 on the NT based on past reputation and "attacking style" that fit their style of play?? Why do so when those like Thomas Muller, Gomez, and Kiessling have shown consistently strong play throughout the last two years, no matter what style of play or coaches were used? People said the same thing regarding Metzelder, even though he was benched by Real, but was supposedly great for Germany. We all saw how over the course of an entire tournament he failed. Poldi shouldn't be more than a substitute, based on his performances at Bayern and Koln. There shouldn't be excuses made for him in order to play it safe and not take the risk of playing Kiessling or Muller from the start, even though they surely have been better than him over the last year. And Klose is like the Oliver Neuville of this WC, somebody to come in at the end to give the team some extra attacking power.

Let's not forget that in Euro 08, Podolski seemed to disappear at times and wasn't anything close to what he was in WC 06. So let's please stop making excuses for him and saying it's the playing style or coach's fault or his socks caused his feet to itch or the ball was too round, and face the fact that Podolski wasn't even among the top five strikers in the Bundesliga over the last two years. By playing him from the start, we're taking away from giving chances to better, and harder-working players like Muller or Kiessling who deserve to be trusted after their consistent record over the last few years.

[batig0al]

I agree with Übersuperduper, players that are at the top of their game must be in the WC team. There's lot of talent in this team, hopefully Low makes the right decisions.

[due]

So Poldi and Klose deserve to be in the starting 11 on the NT based on past reputation and "attacking style" that fit their style of play??

Nope, not based on reputation, but on performances. Klose definitely has ALWAYS delivered in the NT when it counted. He scored 10 goals at world cups alone. Poldi might be a slightly different story, although he's done very well most of the times as well.

Why do so when those like Thomas Muller, Gomez, and Kiessling have shown consistently strong play throughout the last two years, no matter what style of play or coaches were used?

Eeerrrhhh ... Kiessling has been consistent? He's scored 40 goals in 5 years and 1 in the last ten matches for Leverkusen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but he's far from consistent.

Klose scored 85 goals in 7 years. He's had a bad season so far, but he's been really consistent before. Plus he definitely has the experience bonus of having played against the top level competition - and scored against almost all of them.

Müller ... has a consistant first season.

Gomez hasn't done anything much for the NT so far. His is the future, but right now ... not so sure.

I can definitely see Jogi choosing Klose as a starter. If he fails to deliver, he can still be sub'd.

And Klose is like the Oliver Neuville of this WC, somebody to come in at the end to give the team some extra attacking power.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Klose is not a "joker". He's a grinder. Hard-working, needs to get a feel for the match. I don't think he'd do too well a "super-sub" - not taking away from his fighting spirit, but he always needs some time to get warmed up and get a feel for the match.

So let's please stop making excuses for him and saying it's the playing style or coach's fault or his socks caused his feet to itch or the ball was too round, and face the fact that Podolski wasn't even among the top five strikers in the Bundesliga over the last two years.

True. Really great players shine whatever the state of the team or the strategy or whatever. So Poldi is one of the "not quite great" players. Yet he has a LOT of potential and showed it often when in NT colors. I don't think leaving him at home would do his career or development any good...

By playing him from the start, we're taking away from giving chances to better, and harder-working players like Muller or Kiessling who deserve to be trusted after their consistent record over the last few years.

Weeeell... ;) I really wouldn't mind Jögi giving Müller and Kießling their chances. But there are just a few (3?) matches before the WM. Let's see what Jögi does and what it does ;)

[RyFryy]

For me Podolski is very much like Ballack in how their play for club and country differ. I feel very comfortable with Podolski on the pitch for Germany.

[mambo]

Im so sad to see us playing with 1 striker only again :(
They are our strongest players so i hope Löw buries this formation for good.

[The La]

just don´t take Gomez, He is not even Bayern Class, I still dont see why they paid more for Gomez than Liverpool did for Torrez

[Übersuperduper]

When it comes to strategy and understanding the game, Löw does brilliantly. Everybody knows he was the man behind the man in WC 06, organizing team formation and planning for the next game. But when it comes to taking risks and being bold, Jogi the Lion needs to step it up. This is what Klinsi, despite his lack of understanding of fundamental strategy on the pitch, was excellent at. Give Kroos, Thomas Muller, and Kiessling starts. Believe in Kroos, he's 20 years old the same age as Poldi 4 years ago, so give him 90 fucking minutes and trust him. Support Adler despite his fuck up, since when he's at his best he's on par with Casillas, yet don't assure him of being the #1 until a month before the tournament. Don't pick players based on WC2006 performance. Klose can't perform anymore for 90 minutes the way he could 4 or even 2 years ago. Pick a joker like Odonkor was 4 years ago, maybe somebody like Mats Hummels, Badstuber, Huth, or Sven Bender. Bench Ballack if he sucks, or at least sub him. After all, Frings played 90 minutes 4 years ago but now isn't even good for the bench. Don't be uber-conservative with one striker against Argentina, stick with 4-4-2 and go for the win rather than simply defending against Messi. Look at how positively Stuttgart played against Barca in the CL recently. Kroos isn't a natural winger. Piggy is. Ballack isn't a defensive midfielder. Thomas Muller is a forward, not a central mid. Play to these player's strengths rather than trying to change them to someone they're not. Stop making drama over Bierhoff and your contract, now is not the time dude. Simply say that it's something to talk about after WC10, not now. After all, that's what should decided an extension.

Löw can do it, but he needs to definitely be bolder and take some real risks.

[macro]

Game definitely asked more questions than it answered.
Tasci with Merte? Boateng as right side defender? Poldi/Müller as wingers?
doesn't feel good we haven't got a clear first 11.
a lot of formations a re thinkable atm
Maybe we should totally adjust to every opponent
playing a big(height), physical and defensive team scratch out özil and müller
playing like that
adler
schäfer- A.friedrich-merte- lahm
khedira
schweini - ballack- hunt
gomez - kießling
playing a technical not so gifted team play
özil, marin and so on.

[mambo]

ADLER OUT!
http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/nationalelf/startseite/524530/artikel_WM-Aus-fuer-Adler-OP-am-Montag.html

No World Cup for Rene :(
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/5335/35321814.jpg

[dittsche]

tough luck for adler :(

now let wiese do the job!!

[AlexLFC]

now let wiese do the job!!


HELL NO! One of the most overrated keepers in the league. Though he has good reflexes, his bad positioning in front of goal (for his height!) is really problematic. Nope, Wiese shouldn't even be in the squad.

Weidenfeller as number three, Neuer as number one and maybe Butt as second choice. This would be fair given the performances this year in the Bundesliga.

But Adler would have been the best of all, too sad. But he will come back, he is still young and there are more tournaments to come. A brave decision from him as well, not everyone would have stayed home for the sake of the team and ones own performances...

[dittsche]

I disagree. in my opinion, wiese is pretty much on the same level as neuer. plus he has far more international experience than neuer and he and merte are used to play together which could prove important.

also i do remember neuer making some mistakes in recent weeks that led to goals (eg the hannover game or against gladbach). dont get me wrong, he is great gk with a bright future, but id rather see wiese in goal. we'll see how jogi will decide.

meanwhile, BILD says Butt is going as 3rd keeper.

[mambo]

Well we all like to be a little Jogi Löw :p so here are my 2 cents.

Wiese is a monster on the line, period. He is flawless since Glasgow and his presence in the box improved alot in the past years. I love how hes flying through the box like a showcatcher and every opponent player becomes a bowling pin.
Coming out of the goal became one of his specialties and i bet this will be pretty important with our defense. Ive seen some hair-raising faults from Neuer in this discipline.

All things considered i reckon Löw is going to choose Wiese as World Cup goalie. If they prefer Neuer im ok with it, the boy has the bigger talent! But i doubt it. This WC comes at least 2 years too early for Neuer. I reckon Wieses experience is going to make the difference.


However, here is the kicker season league-ranking for our goalies:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4715/28485938.jpg

[due]

Neuer is used to playing with Westermann ;) I'm really not that worried about who Jogi plays in goal. Neuer, Wiese, Butt, Weidenfeller ... doesn't matter much, they're all good goalies, neither of them with a huge advantage over the others.

I think that either Neuer and Adler will be No. 1 in the future anyways. Once they pick up some (more) international experience, they can only get better. Wiese is a rock solid goalie with the disadvantage of having had to spend 5-7 years behind Lehmann and Kahn. Neuer and Adler can now begin a new era while Wiese might just be a liiiittle bit to old for that. Still - I wouldn't have a problem with him gk'ing in WC10.

[pkwrigley]

...and Löw takes Klose to South Africa. :mad:

Can someone explain what value he will bring to the team this summer?

[mambo]

Kloses stats this season are shocking :(
Its his history that makes him part of the team and the believe in the things he can do. Not so long ago he was standing above the rest and Beckenbauer called him Klosinho ^^

I like to believe in him, even though he plays the weakest season of his career.
Lets hope its just a motivation thing.


Season Club Games Goals Assists
1999/2000 1. FC K'lautern 2 0 0
2000/2001 1. FC K'lautern 29 9 0
2001/2002 1. FC K'lautern 31 16 2
2002/2003 1. FC K'lautern 32 9 5
2003/2004 1. FC K'lautern 26 10 3
2004/2005 SV Werder Bremen 32 15 9
2005/2006 SV Werder Bremen 26 25 13
2006/2007 SV Werder Bremen 31 13 16
2007/2008 FC Bayern München 27 10 8
2008/2009 FC Bayern München 26 10 7
2009/2010 FC Bayern München 24 3 1
Total: 286 120 64

[pkwrigley]

I know his history, but he's been in decline since jumping ship to Bayern. (Actually I remember a serious loss of form when his whole transfer fiasco began at the end of his last season with SVW)

It's been a while since he's been a dangerous man. I mean if we go back far enough, Klinsmann and Voller were Killers too, but I don't think they'd be any use to the National Eleven anymore either. My point being -- Klose's day is over. Maybe I'm wrong, but this just reeks of the "Get as many Bayern players in there as possible" rule.

Then again, I don't know anything. If Löw doesn't change his mind and takes Klose with, maybe he finds a return to form and scores 7 or 8 times while leading the team to the final. (I'd be just fine with that ;))

I just don't see it happening.

[bleething]

9 years and almost 100 games with the NT is what Klose brings to the team. He probably won't see too much playing time, but you can't deny his massive experience with the NT and also at the big tournaments. If all he does is take pressure of the likes of Kießling, Cacau, Müller and to a degree Gomez, I think his inclusion would be worth it.

I think Podolski is the one that shouldn't be included when looking at the strikers. His season is just as bad as Klose's is, but he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who could shrug that off and use the World Cup to come to life again. Klose, to me, seems mentally much more suited to be an impact striker.

Both should not be considered as starters, I think.

I'm interested in who you think should be dropped from the preliminary team. I think I would drop Podolski, Aogo, Träsch and either Kroos or Trochowski, depending on the fitness of Kroos, who I think has probably played a pretty exhaustive season. And if he's not 100% physically, I think he could crack under the pressure. That said, I would love to see him do well at the WC.

[sweed]

Loew picked 27, who are the 4 that won't make it?

A striker has to go. Pref. one of Klose/Podolski/Gomez. If all 3 left I would happy! :D

[macro]

A damn shame Gomez catched the bayern bug, i strongly suggest wurst ulli refrain from signing german strikers. please ruin other countries offence !!! :mad:
Just a year ago the future upfield seemed so bright now we have ONE in form striker.

0

[macro]

Glad nobody asks for Kuranyi in here, those bild reading morons crying their eyes out cause Kevin stays home (alone(again)) are the same that booed him of the field at Schalke not long ago.

[Übersuperduper]

Have to disagree w/u Mac. Gomez and also Toni were outshined by Thomas Muller and Olic, otherwise they had the opportunity to prove their worth. Gomez has quality, but it seems as if he got comfortable once he came to Bayern and no longer felt he needed to prove himself. He missed some really open goals over the course of the last season.

I'm not a Kuranyi lover, but at the same time I think he's been treated like shit by Klinsi and also by Jogi. Kuranyi surely deserves to go to South Africa more than Clown Poldi. Kuranyi never slapped Ballack, especially during a game. Kuranyi led Schalke to second place this last season and was along with Kiessling, Olic, and Muller one of the standout strikers of the Bundesliga this season. In previous years I wouldn't have started him but only put him on the bench, but even then, Jogi didn't even do that and put him in the stands which is why he got pissed and left the stadium. He made a mistake, but a lifetime ban for that was too much. After all, Effenberg gave the finger to the whole stadium and was allowed to come back. It looked more like Jogi was looking for an excuse to get rid of him. But especially now, after Magath got the best out of him this last season, Kuranyi deserves to be on the pitch more than Klose & the Clown Prince combined. But of course Jogi loves sticking with his favorite players, like he did with Metzelder in Euro 2008.

If Jogi was a little more bold, he'd play Kiessling and Kuranyi up front, with Gomez, Muller and Klose as subs on the bench, and have Kroos as the attacking midfielder right behind K&K, with Ballack behind Kroos. Piggy & Ozil would be wingers, and I'm not sure about the back four besides Lahm and Westermann, with Neuer in goal and Wiese as second(sorry Butt). But Jogi will choose favorites again and diminish Germany's attacking ability like he did with the defense at the Euros.

[chelsea_fan]

fantastic analysis Übersuperduper :D agree with on kiessling | kuranyi partnership, they complement each other. We are humans with emotions we make mistakes.

[bleething]

I would like to see a XI like this for the WC:

----------------Butt--------------------
----------------------------------------
Lahm----Hummels-----Westermann----Jansen
----------------------------------------
------Schweinsteiger---Khedira----------
----------------------------------------
-----Özil--------Kroos--------Marin-----
----------------------------------------
---------------Kießling-----------------

Not sure about the goalie, I'm going for the experience of Butt here, although I think anyone of Neuer, Wiese, Weidenfeller or Adler (if he were fit) would do fine. The only worry about that eleven would probably be that there is no defensive mind set. Jansen and Lahm are extremely attacking full backs and both centre backs are well capable of going forward and do like to do so every now and again.

Ballack could play any of the two DM positions as well as the middle OM position. Müller could play in any of the three OM positions as could Schweinsteiger, of course. So there's room for variations in the attacking third of the pitch.

[Whoah10115]

Honestly, the German team is just not looking good.

[bleething]

I would agree they don't look good for winning the World Cup, but certainly good enough to get out of the group stages. And from there on you just cannot predict what will happen.

But yeah, Brazil, Spain and England, at least on paper, look like the teams most likely to win it.

[AlexLFC]

Honestly, the German team is just not looking good.

Well, I guess we never did really - at least not after the glory days of the nineties were gone... And yet the team always produced good results under Klinsi and Löw.


And then about the Kuranyi thing: he let the team down with his antics back then and got his deserved punishment. Why is everyone crying about that? One must also look at it from Löw's perspective - imagine how HE would be judged by the team mates if he took Kuranyi back, what would the media come up with if he did so? Since the german newspaper Bild made such a big deal of this story, we all know that Löw did the right thing, since everything that goes against Bild's opinion is the correct thing!

Btw, comparing that to Poldi is bs imo, slapping the captain is letting one player down, but not the whole team. And slapping Ballack gives him bonus points anyway :p!

Next we all start crying about Frings not making it into the squad... :rolleyes:

[macro]

I trust Löw when he says squad picks are made on watching the player over years taking every possible data. Shurley Löw can provide you clean stats that show that Kuranyi just doesnt cut it and over that he can't stand him, doesn't fit in the system, isn't good for the moral, take your pick

Üsd your hopes of an early exit of our team might or might not be fulfilled, Löws gone any way and will be replaced by *drum roll* ....Heynckes, who goes by Heynckes Hurensohn at Eintracht supporters btw.
Got that from Theo himself who live just a few miles from my house. ;)

[RyFryy]

Honestly, the German team is just not looking good.
You probably said the same thing in 2002 and 2006.

The German squad has never been full of superstars or anything of the like. They play well together and get the results. They don't do it with flair but they always come to play. This World Cup will be no different.

As for the keeper debate.. Neuer gets my vote!

[Übersuperduper]

I trust Löw when he says squad picks are made on watching the player over years taking every possible data. Shurley Löw can provide you clean stats that show that Kuranyi just doesnt cut it and over that he can't stand him, doesn't fit in the system, isn't good for the moral, take your pick

Üsd your hopes of an early exit of our team might or might not be fulfilled, Löws gone any way and will be replaced by *drum roll* ....Heynckes, who goes by Heynckes Hurensohn at Eintracht supporters btw.
Got that from Theo himself who live just a few miles from my house. ;)

Mac I used to trust Jogi until Euro 08 when he picked Metzelder, and then after the Poldi incident didn't even really punish him. Kuranyi this year was a classic finisher of the ball, not necessarily scoring beautiful goals but getting the job done consistently, over and over again. Poldi this year, despite being granted his wish to go back to Cologne, and even being granted superhero status there, wasn't even able to help his team stay in the top half of the table.

I don't hope Germany has an early exit, I hope they go as far as possible. But I just don't trust Jogi any more. I used to think he's a lion, able to make bold decisions and pick younger, fresher players like Kroos. Klinsi would've done so, but Jogi has been rather conservative in this respect, and almost guaranteed spots for Poldi and Klose despite their drop in performances. Surely, Kiessling and Kuranyi showed they're better this year and deserve their chance now.

And after Leverkusen went from title contender to not even getting a CL spot, I don't really think Heynkes is up for it. I'd rather have a younger guy like Klopp, but I doubt Dortmund supporters would be willing to let him go, and rightly so. ;)

Anyways, I truly hope Ballack lifts the trophy in Johannesburg at the end of the WC. I hope Jogi proves me wrong just like Robben proved me wrong. :p

[dittsche]

Good Lord, Ballack is out for the World Cup!! :(

KICKER (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/nationalelf/startseite/525178/artikel_WM-Aus-fuer-Ballack.html)

What now? Whos there to fill the gap?

[macro]

What now?

trash ghana 10:0 :mad::mad::mad:

[Übersuperduper]

really sad and maddening! :mad:

[due]

What now? Whos there to fill the gap?

Ekici :P No really, I'm not too sad to see Ballack out of the WC. He slows our play down quite a bit. I guess it might be Bender's time or maybe even Kehl if he's fit. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing Bargfrede.

[Whoah10115]

I didn't think Germany was very good in 2002 and they weren't. It took a superhuman performance by Oliver Kahn (rightfully winning the Golden Ball), a watered down tournament, and a gift call against the US. That and Michael Ballack was amazing.


And he was amazing again in 2006. I did expect Germany to be great in 2006 and they were the best team in the tournament, until Klinsmann got conservative and Italy beat you.


Even tho Michael Ballack is the most disappointing player of the last 4years at club level, he is still one of the best players in the world. And anyone who thinks that your best player (by far by far by far) just slows down your game is crazy. I believed Germany were weaker this tournament (and you were) and would classify in 2nd place to Ghana, then would beat England in the 2nd round and go to the semi's, on the back of Ballack. Then this morning I was thinking they'd win the group and would just devour the US. Now I'm pretty confident Germany will be in 2nd and England will take them out in the 2nd round.


Germany need another manager. And they need their best player.

[Übersuperduper]

have to agree with Whoah, and totally disagree with due (lol@Kehl :D )

I don't see this Germany team having anyone besides Piggy and Lahm who could stand out and do something creative. I'm tempted to say Kroos, but I know Low will be Mr.Uber-conservative and never start him, maybe never even play him the whole tournament. Clown Prince Podolski will keep giggling while Argentina score goal after goal and then beg Messi to exchange shirts afterwards. Kiessling and Muller will be on the bench while Kuranyi will be on a beach somewhere laughing at the goals Klose and Poldi keep missing.

Germany will get out of the group, but aren't strong enough against England, Spain, Brazil, Italy, or Argentina when their coach picks his favorite friends as players and Ballack who basically carried Germany to the final of Euro08 while Metzelder partied in the jacuzzi with his WAG, is now not even going to the tournament.

Germany could still win it if Low decided to start Kiessling and Muller, put Kroos in for 90 minutes in Ballack's position, and give Badstuber a chance to pair with Mertesacker in the center. But he'd never do that in a million years, and that's why I'm hoping that after this WC Sammer becomes coach and finally goes with youth and strong defense which made Germany so powerful in the past.

[sweed]

Ballack gone is a blessing in disguise. It's time for him to move on and the NT to move on. I still say we won't win it b/c Loew is annoying and, to me, hasn't a clue how to pick a team.

That being said auf geht's Deutschland! :)

[sweed]

The question now is, who is going to replace him on the squad?

[mambo]

K.P. Boateng is a dirty little punk.

[due]

The question now is, who is going to replace him on the squad?

In the starting 11 - Khedira. I'd like to see Hummels join the 23 in Ballacks place, he can play CB and def Midfield as well.

And after seeing Über disagreeing with me, I'm almost even more happy that Ballack is out (remember Robben? :P ).

My starting 11 would look sth like this ->

Goalie (I really don't care, they're all good)
Träsch - Merte - Badi - Lahm
Schweini - Khedira
Kroos - Müller - Özil
Cacau

[chelsea_fan]

it has to be schwenstieger to take over as leader. he has the poise and experience to lead, it could be a rallying point for the great german nt team .
beat ghana!

[macro]

love how everybody and his mom running in the death trap that is underestimate germany, once again.
big advantage for us. watch us walk into semis, hell yeah!!! :D

[mambo]

v/YMAvAQ3FhgQ

[Übersuperduper]

Due, you're becoming almost English in your Uber-confidence ;)

Every WC the English go in screaming how their team will win it, and then get eliminated in the quarters. Their overconfidence works against them, even when they have the team like they did in 2006 to win the tournament. So far they haven't done it as much as 4 years ago, but I'm hoping they start that up again. :p

Right now on another thread you say Bayern will beat Inter, which eliminated Barca, 3-0 without Ribery. And now you think Germany, without Ballack which would've been eliminated by Argentina in 2006 and also never have made it to the final in Euro08, is stronger now because he's gone.

What happened in the semi in Dortmund against Italy? What happened to all that extreme overconfidence? That's never how Germany or Bayern win. German NT and FC Bayern only win when they're quietly confident, belief is totally strong but not screaming victory beforehand.

To say that Germany is stronger now that Ballack is gone is like saying ManU is stronger now that Cronaldo is gone. Germany can still win it if Low decides to take real risks and stop playing his favorites.

PS: Low will never play Kroos as a starter, and so your formation won't work. He'd rather play Poldi for 90 minutes than Kroos for 1. And Khedira? Seriously?? :D

Let's make it simple dude. Germany will win the WC 5-0 against Spain, Bayern will beat Inter 8-0, and the Bundesliga will be the best league in Europe next year. If you're gonna be overconfident go all the way. :o

[Übersuperduper]

love how everybody and his mom running in the death trap that is underestimate germany, once again.
big advantage for us. watch us walk into semis, hell yeah!!! :D

Mac you'd be right if I saw the NT players have the "old" German mentality of "fuck you, we never give up" that I loved so much. Unfortunately, today's German NT has Podolski giggling, Bierhoff busy making "Danke" posters, Ballack old and injured, and a defense which is untypically weak for German football.

I still think Germany can win it if Jogi decides to be a Lion(Low) and take some ballsy risks like benching the Clown Prince, giving Kroos 90 minutes, starting Muller and Kiessling, and being humble enough to take Kuranyi who was one of the best strikers in the Bundesliga this year. Let Piggy play in the middle like he does for Bayern. Don't judge players on performances from 4 years ago. Play them for who they are right now!

But as he showed in Euro08 with Metzelder, and since then with Poldi and Klose, Jogi isn't strong enough to take these types of risks.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong like I was on Robben, and Jogi proves me wrong just like Von KhGrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal proved me wrong. But I don't see the typical German mentality at the core of this team. Jogi and Oli Beer-hopes need to go and Sammer needs to get the NT back in shape. It's sad that in the last 4 years, the NT of Germany hasn't improved and actually is in worse shape. Losing to an Argentina mismanaged by Diego just showed this.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. But I see this as being like WC98 where the quarters are the extent of German progress. :(

[sweed]

In the starting 11 - Khedira. I'd like to see Hummels join the 23 in Ballacks place, he can play CB and def Midfield as well.

And after seeing Über disagreeing with me, I'm almost even more happy that Ballack is out (remember Robben? :P ).

My starting 11 would look sth like this ->

Goalie (I really don't care, they're all good)
Träsch - Merte - Badi - Lahm
Schweini - Khedira
Kroos - Müller - Özil
Cacau

I'd love to see that. Possibly switching Mueller and Kroos but that looks good. No Poldi on the field = win :) :p

[Whoah10115]

Good luck with Cacau leading your line.



Anyway, even tho Ballack is 33 I think he'll at least play Euro. I think you all could win Euro if you have a real coach.

[jr!]

Sammer is a useless coach, don't count on him giving up his cushy job with the DFB. I don't see Cacau leading the line either.
We'll be fine with Schweini in the middle as long as Low plays him there.

[macro]

actually i'm very excited about the situation, Schweinsteiger, Lahm and Merte leading, bunch of youngsters playing their first tourney and most likely Löw's last...
It's all set for some great stories and drama of rising stars, dramatic twist and turns and a nation that gets behind their team like we do.
Can't wait...

[jr!]

Me too, we have a lot of talented youngsters waiting, remember Germany are European Champions ast the U21, U19 & U17 levels.

[mambo]

Honestly, i am extremely pessimistic. I think we are going to choke! It would be a big suprise to me if we reach the semis. I believe we can only go that far with massive luck in the draws. My bet goes on horrible exit in the quarter-finals.

[due]

As if we have to reach the semis everytime ;) This tourney is a little too early anyway, we were never going to win it. That's why I'd like to see the young guns get as much time under their belt as possible. Prepare for the next Euro and WC, we got some great players coming up :)

If everything goes as I expect it, we'll face Argentina in the quarters. That should be game over - but we're Germany, you never know :)

[macro]

Honestly, i am extremely pessimistic. I think we are going to choke! It would be a big suprise to me if we reach the semis. I believe we can only go that far with massive luck in the draws. My bet goes on horrible exit in the quarter-finals.

I see you getting all fire and flames if we play well in the first game,
saying we'll win the damn zhing.

[Übersuperduper]

I still think Germany will win the group. But against the big names in the second round, under-performing "stars" like Poldi and Klose won't help, while those who could bring a real creative spark like Kroos would be wasted on the bench. If Ballack played he could've at the very least used his strong character to rally the troops like he did in the quarters against Argentina in 2006. I don't see Piggy or Lahm having that strong character. Piggy could bring that out if he's given the captaincy but I doubt that would happen.

Who else could be coach if Jogi fails in this WC? Personally I'm hoping for Sammer but when a Dortmund fan says he's not a good coach then I'm not so sure. Hitzfeld, maybe?? :)

[bleething]

Who else could be coach if Jogi fails in this WC? Personally I'm hoping for Sammer but when a Dortmund fan says he's not a good coach then I'm not so sure. Hitzfeld, maybe?? :)

Hans Meyer, just because it would be so much fun to watch press the conferences.

Ottmar Hitzfeld would be great and I think Jürgen Klopp will manage the German NT at either the 2018 or 2022 WC. He and Magath are probably the best managers Germany has at the moment, but I don't think Magath's coaching style would suit the NT. While Klopp is a superb motivator and by then should have all the necessary experience to lead a NT.

[Übersuperduper]

Hans Meyer, just because it would be so much fun to watch press the conferences.

Ottmar Hitzfeld would be great and I think Jürgen Klopp will manage the German NT at either the 2018 or 2022 WC. He and Magath are probably the best managers Germany has at the moment, but I don't think Magath's coaching style would suit the NT. While Klopp is a superb motivator and by then should have all the necessary experience to lead a NT.

totally agreed..I'd also love Hans Meyer with perhaps Effenberg as his assistant :p
But seriously, Klopp would be awesome. ;)

btw, does anyone know what happened to Odonkor? He was a major part of the 2006 team but now seems to have gone off radar. Is he still an active player?

[jr!]

Odonkor was sold to Real Betis, before the 2008 season I think, then had a few knee injuries, and fell out of favour with Betis, but is still in the squad I think.

[fcb_sandy05]

totally agreed..I'd also love Hans Meyer with perhaps Effenberg as his assistant :p
But seriously, Klopp would be awesome. ;)

btw, does anyone know what happened to Odonkor? He was a major part of the 2006 team but now seems to have gone off radar. Is he still an active player?

Trappatoni for Germany? :p

Odonkor is still with Betis who are in the the Segunda Division in Spain. The last time I paid any attention to him was when he helped Betis screw up Barca's title race with Madrid a couple of years back.

[macro]

Oh noes not Trap :p
Kloppo maybe in 20 years, before that Magath will get his turn.
Atm i see Heynckes lining up, imo Hrubesch should get a chance too.

Can't see Sammer on the bench either but when Bierhoffs gone he'll take more power at DFB which should be a good thing.

[bleething]

Can't see Sammer on the bench either but when Bierhoffs gone he'll take more power at DFB which should be a good thing.

To me it looks like Sammer is doing a good job where he is right now. Why take him away from there? Managing, coordinating all the German youth teams except the U21 is a pretty big job in profile and in importance. Unless he wants to move on I cannot see any reason why he shouldn't stay in place.

[Broton]

I get the Kuranyi situation but what's the issue with Frings and Hummels? I thought Frings did a good job last time round...and I do believe he had a good season this year...

-R

[due]

Hummels is supposed to be a "future player", not ready (?) or needed just yet. At least that's what I believe Jogi said.

Frings was ruled out by Jogi back in the winter when he (like most of the team) had an awful spell. I believe the official word on that was that being on the NT is ruled strictly by "what have you done lately". Frings hadn't played on the NT for a bit because he had been injured for the last couple of WC qualifiers and had a bad first half of the season. Another reason was that Jogi couldn't see Frings keeping quiet as third or maybe even fourth option in defMid - which I believe to be true as well.

Hummels definitely (and even more so after Träsch's injury) should be on the squad this year. He's our best (future) centre back, he can play defMid as well.
I'm not too sad to see Frings out of the squad tbh but I understand other people's reasons who want him there - he surely does have experience, had some great matches for the NT and could help lead a young squad. Yet ... I'd rather see Germany try and go for it with a young team than relying on Frings.

[jr!]

I think we'll see Hummels in the Euro2012 qualifying campaign. He's too good to exclude, but maybe Löw wants to see him continue to improve. He was awesome the 2nd half of last season, according to Kicker's stats, the best in Germany, but that was only half a season and he's still very young.

[mambo]

Goalkeeper will be announced tomorrow.
Bild already sais its Neuer, but i dont trust these fuckers a single bit.

[DanneS]

I don't know where to put Deutschland this year. Favourites or "dark horses" or "will be having problems"
Your team looks stronger than your individual players. I don't see any "5 star" players in your team. Only solid 3's and 4's.
You will need players that perform like Klose and Podolski did last WC to do well enough to please the fans.

But I predict a semifinal for your boys. As usual.

[due]

Pretty safe bet with the semis ;) The only problem is that we'll have to face Argentina or England in the quarters if everything goes as planned (http://sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/fussball-wm-2010/auslosung/2009/12/07/wm-rechner/tippen-sie-sich-durch-die-weltmeisterschaft.html). That will be quite a difficult task, Argentina even more so.

Right now, I believe we can make it to the quarters. Can't see us winning againt Argentina right now. Should it be England, we can make it to the semis, using penalties once again :-P

[Elzavo]

How is Müller doing?
I read he fell off his bike trying to race down an alp a couple of days ago.

[due]

He got a couple of stiches on his chin and some scratches on his knee, but nothing serious. He'll be fine.

[macro]

Pretty safe bet with the semis ;) The only problem is that we'll have to face Argentina or England in the quarters if everything goes as planned (http://sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/fussball-wm-2010/auslosung/2009/12/07/wm-rechner/tippen-sie-sich-durch-die-weltmeisterschaft.html). That will be quite a difficult task, Argentina even more so.

Right now, I believe we can make it to the quarters. Can't see us winning againt Argentina right now. Should it be England, we can make it to the semis, using penalties once again :-P

You'll never know what happens, Maradonna might screw up and we'll beat them. It's best shot we have. :o

[mambo]

live: Lahm confirmed; Neuer confirmed

[macro]

Good choice. Lahms a natural captain, my favorite nt player for some time now.

And Neuer<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_tQr7W-zC4&hl=de_DE&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y_tQr7W-zC4&hl=de_DE&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

nuff said

[Übersuperduper]

what about Krooooooooooooooos?!!! :confused:

[due]

He's neither Captain nor Goalie :-p He's fit and will probably get some playing time tonight.

[dittsche]

westermann is the next one to stay at home injured. this is getting ridiculous!

[sweed]

westermann is the next one to stay at home injured. this is getting ridiculous!

this is getting ridiculous

[bleething]

Sounds to me like it's time to give Mats Hummels a call-up. He's just as versatile as Westermann is. In fact, they both can play the exact same positions with centre back their preferred role. Same height, they both love to play the ball and they're very adapt at heading the ball.

[mambo]

Wont happen, they still have 1 player in Austria to send home from the original call up.

Did you guys noticed how badly our credit declined ?
Euro 2008 we were the TOP favorite to win it. On maxxed 22% thought we made it.
Now we got only 4,5% :eek::(

[bleething]

Against all the rumours of Stefan Kießling being the one that has to pack in, Andreas Beck has been left out of the WC squad.

Which makes the following Germany's official WC squad for South Africa:

Jörg Butt (FC Bayern München)
Manuel Neuer (FC Schalke 04)
Tim Wiese (Werder Bremen)

Dennis Aogo (Hamburger SV)
Holger Badstuber (FC Bayern München)
Jerome Boateng (Hamburger SV)
Arne Friedrich (Hertha BSC Berlin)
Marcell Jansen (Hamburger SV)
Philipp Lahm (FC Bayern München)
Per Mertesacker (Werder Bremen)
Serdar Tasci (VfB Stuttgart)

Sami Khedira (VfB Stuttgart)
Toni Kroos (Bayer 04 Leverkusen)
Marko Marin (Werder Bremen)
Mesut Özil (Werder Bremen)
Bastian Schweinsteiger (FC Bayern München)
Piotr Trochowski (Hamburger SV)

Cacau (VfB Stuttgart)
Mario Gomez (FC Bayern München)
Stefan Kießling (Bayer 04 Leverkusen)
Miroslav Klose (FC Bayern München)
Thomas Müller (FC Bayern München)
Lukas Podolski (1. FC Köln)

[pkwrigley]

Klose.

:rolleyes:

[due]

Hunting Ronaldo's WC goal scoring record ... only 5 to go, that should be doable in the group stage ;)

[mambo]

We can be happy if Klose makes 2 or 3 goals. If he scores 3 he would score as much as the whole season :eek: So that seems unlikely.

[Übersuperduper]

surely Müller has shown at Bayern that he deserves to start more than Klose does, so I don't see why Klose should be used other than as the 2006 Oliver Neuville role of a sub when an extra forward or fresh legs up front are needed

on a sidenote, if the rumors are true, really happy that Kießling & Kroos are going :)

[bleething]

There are no rumours, it's official.

http://www.dfb.de/fileadmin/Image_Archive/News/teamfoto2010_23404_p880722.jpg

Schweini looks really happy :rolleyes: and Poldi is sporting that fat "I've done fuck all but Jogi loves me" grin

[mambo]

:D *Cheeeeeeese*


Only Boateng is keeping it Gangsta :p

[macro]

just reading last time we lost a last game before wc at home was in 1938.
getting trashed by England 3:6, the führer was not amused to say the least and we all know how that ended. so in the sake of peace and freedom make it a win tonight boys.
:D

[sweed]

Klose is useless

[due]

Good luck with Cacau leading your line.

I don't wanna gloat but ... can't help it :p Cacau looks more and more like the No. 1 striker. He gets involved, he's got the technique to play 1-2s and he's pretty decent in front of goal. The second half tonight looked promising :) Now let's see how it goes in 10 days.

[Übersuperduper]

I don't mind Cacau being chosen, but it definitely won't feel as good if he's the reason Germany win a tournament. If he was like Podolski with foreign ancestry but grew up in Germany I wouldn't care, just like I was happy when Gerald Asamoah played for Germany. But Cacau came to Germany to play in the Bundesliga, he never really grew up there. So he's still really Brazilian. It's like when a Bulgarian weightlifter was given Abu Dhabi nationality and then won the silver medal for Abu Dhabi at the Olympics some years ago. I think national teams should remain more national and at the very least those players who play for the NT should've been in that country before 18 years old for non-football reasons. Otherwise, in the future every European team will have a Brazilian or Argentinian on their national team, which surely doesn't make sense.

[due]

He came over here to play footie alright, but he started at around 18-19 in the fifth league, only went to Nürnberg in 2001 and played in the second team for a while as well. He's been here for over 10 years now. I'm not going to criticize his decision. There are plenty of players playing for Turkey for example that have never lived there either.

Just imagine almost all of the US sport teams without all the players with African backgrounds. That would surely mix things up in for example basketball :D So ... if a sports player feels more at home in his adopted country than his or his parents "home country", why shouldn't he be able to play for their national team? I like that things have become more lenient towards players choice. As long as they don't get paid to change their nationality...

[Übersuperduper]

He came over here to play footie alright, but he started at around 18-19 in the fifth league, only went to Nürnberg in 2001 and played in the second team for a while as well. He's been here for over 10 years now. I'm not going to criticize his decision. There are plenty of players playing for Turkey for example that have never lived there either.


Well you have a point with him playing in the fifth league, but when a player in his heart wants Brazil to win more than he wants Germany to, because he was born in and grew up in Brazil, then would it really feel good if he scored the winning goal in the WC final to win the WC for Germany? I could understand if he was like Gerald Asamoah who is one of my favorite players of WC2002, and came to Germany as a kid for non-football reasons. But just because Cacau lived in Germany for 10 years doesn't take away from the fact he came over only for football reasons and did so after he lived his whole childhood in Brazil.


Just imagine almost all of the US sport teams without all the players with African backgrounds. That would surely mix things up in for example basketball :D So ... if a sports player feels more at home in his adopted country than his or his parents "home country", why shouldn't he be able to play for their national team? I like that things have become more lenient towards players choice. As long as they don't get paid to change their nationality...

Are you serious??? Those black athletes with African backgrounds were born in the US, raised in the US, and don't know anything about Africa. Not only that, but their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and so on until maybe the 1800s were born in the US. The United States is 99% immigrants, basically the US is a country of immigrants. But imagine if we could give Cuahmetoc Blanco who plays for the Chicago Fire US citizenship and let him play for the NT. Would it be right to give him, somebody who was born in, and grew up in Mexico, a place on the national team when he only came to the US to play football? Of course not.
And those players who play for Turkey's NT have a Turkish background. If Cacau was the son of German immigrants to Brazil it wouldn't be a problem, since he has some non-football relationship with the country. That's why I didn't have such a problem with Kuranyi, since his father had a non-footballing connection to Germany. But I would have a problem if Ronaldinho was allowed by Fifa to now play for Spain or Italy. It simply doesn't make sense.

Cacau is taking a spot away from another German player, and also isn't really supporting the cause in his heart. He's only playing for Germany because he wasn't good enough for Brazil's team. It should be an honor to play for the National Mannshaft, not an alternative because you're not good enough for another team.

[mambo]

It should be an honor to play for the National Mannshaft, not an alternative because you're not good enough for another team.

you called ? :D

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6065/shaft.jpg


Im happy with Cacau playing for Germany.
He lives here for soo long... he speaks the language fluent and he got his german citizienship to give his kids an opportunity, before anyone was even thinking of him playing football for Germany. Hes definately not one of those mercs you see in so many teams.

But im sure his prospect will not always be as rosy as it looks right now. At the moment its strongly supported by Klose and Gomez having no rythym and Kießling not being challenged at all. Lets not forget Helmes severe injury and Kuranyi being denied.
Cacau is in the form of his life, but that form will go away again.

[bommelbommel]

He lives here for soo long... he speaks the language fluent and he got his german citizienship to give his kids an opportunity, before anyone was even thinking of him playing football for Germany. Hes definately not one of those mercs you see in so many teams."das ERSTE?"
i'd love to see kieß, but he doesn't even get a chance. and for gomez: everybody knows that he's not meant to get in 80'...

so it has to be helmuth!

[macro]

it's a shame Kießling didn't get more time last couple of games and when he played he was unfortunate.

so it has to be helmuth!

[stakker88]

God I really hope Badstuber doesn't play. He is probably my least favorite player on the German team. I'd rather see Klose start than him.

[due]

I guess that'll depend on whether Lahm play LB or RB ;) There are little alternatives at left back. Aogo is surely somewhat better at going forward, although his crosses against ... Malta(?) were awful. Jansen is not a left back, being too offensive-minded. So my guess would be that if Löw decides to play Lahm on the right side, which Lahm prefers, you're going to see Badi. I wouldn't be too surprised to see that happening because our game, especially if Klose doesn't play, doesn't rely on crossed too much anyway.

[stakker88]

I don't know, I still both think Jansen would be a better option at LB. He's really more of a winger than a defender, I know, but even so I'd rather have him back there defending against Ghana or Serbia.

[Übersuperduper]

Now THAT was a game of football. The movement and passing were amazing, and I actually have real hope now that Germany can go far in this WC. Also really happy that Thomas Muller scored that goal, it'll give him the confidence he needs to keep on scoring. Klose and the Clown Prince are back despite having horrible seasons in the Bundesliga, and Piggy seems to have taken over from Ballack in the attacking role. I only wish Kroos was subbed in sometime, but hopefully he'll get his chance later on. :)

[mambo]

LLLLLove this one :p

If Germany get out of their group I'll be stunned. I usually don't have anything against the German national team, but I hope they are no where near the latter stages of the World Cup. I don't want to see another Euro 2008 or World Cup 2002 where they back door their way into the Final and then take the gloss of their opponents victory because they, themselves were so bad. Where is the talent in Germany. If your best German players are an overrated Lahm, a solid Bastian Schweinsteiger, a joke in Klose? What kind of talent is there in your country?

[pkwrigley]

Gentlemen, I may have been wrong about not wanting Klose to be in the team.

I admit it.

[stakker88]

I'm loving this German team. Ozil (Oezil? however you spell it) is awesome, Muller is a beast, Klose's scoring again, Podoski just makes me feel happy. I really think this is one of the most likable German squads I've seen in a while. I think maybe it's because there's no Ballack. I've always kinda liked him, but without him around you get to see more of the other players.

[dcarson7]

Congratulations.

I have absolutely no grievances towards your team, by far the better team. England were very ordinary in the second half. Even if that goal was given (which it clearly should've been), you still would've beat us in the second.

Best of luck against the Argies, should be an epic match.

Oh, very impressed with Ozil.

[sweed]

I've been impressed with the team. Def. surpassed my expectations :)

[fcb_sandy05]

I've been impressed with the team. Def. surpassed my expectations :)
It's all because of Van Gaal. :p

[mambo]

Indeed ...what is wrong with Friedrich :eek::D
I have never seen him play that good. Did you see that magic moment in the box, when he tricked Rooney brazilian style ? :p Incredible!

I have been bashing Löw for taking Klose with him and leaving Frings at home. I have to apologize :o The England match was a perfect demonstration that having the best 11 players doesnt mean having the best team on the field.

[Sataris]

Indeed ...what is wrong with Friedrich :eek::D
I have never seen him play that good. Did you see that magic moment in the box, when he tricked Rooney brazilian style ? :p Incredible!

He's been very good, I was surprised with how composed and unflappable he is, He's given me a lot of hope in the centre of our defence

Badstuber on the other hand, are there no left backs at all who are fit and can play football?

[chaouki]

aogo still is lb even though he's not used up to now. he played for hamburg every game at lb. i'd rather see him playing there than jansen because this fellow as stated above by smd else is more a winger than a defender.

[macro]

no Marin against England, seems like he droped in the packing order.
Maybe Jansen gets a run out for Poldi if we need a goal against Argentina.

[Übersuperduper]

Does anybody else think that Ballack not being in the squad has taken off the pressure for the whole team and freed them up a bit? Don't get me wrong, I still have love for Ballack and what he did at WC2002, WC2006 and also almost by himself taking the team to the finals of Euro2008, not to mention the double Double for Bayern with Magath. But ever since the Euros his form has gone down and it just seemed like he's not as serious about his game and being fit enough. It seems the team has a bit more energy and less nervousness in their play now.

But the real test will be against Argentina, where four years ago Ballack led Germany past them. I think Germany could win this but they have to be on the top of their game and make almost zero defensive mistakes.

Have to agree with Mambo about Friedrich and also about being wrong on Jogi. I don't know how Podolski and Klose can do so good with the NT and suck in the Bundesliga, but obviously Jogi Lion was right in choosing them and not Kuranyi or some other strikers. However, I wouldn't mind if he just used Podolski OR Klose and not both, and instead had Thomas Müller up front as the second striker and Kroos in midfield with Piggy. Also thank you to Von KhRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaal for convincing Jogi to play Piggy as DM rather than as a winger. And thank you to Klinsi for giving Müller his chance when he was coach of Bayern.

btw, Uli&Kalle, please buy Friedrich from relegated Hertha. He's shown he got skills in defense, Bayern's weakest point last year.

[Pelle316]

I'm glad to see Klose smile again. He had a tough year and a lot of critics concerning his spot in the national team. Thank god, Löw had this trust in his skills. And I'm really excited about the whole 2006 "rewind" situation with argentina in the quarter finals. Should be a great game. Hope to see another victory.

[jr!]

I've been impressed with the team. Def. surpassed my expectations :)

Me too!!

[chaouki]

Does anybody else think that Ballack not being in the squad has taken off the pressure for the whole team and freed them up a bit?
definitly think so. although i never liked ballack he did an outstanding job in keeping the national team on track, but i think he hindered the creativity of the other players. now without him they seem to play more energetic and the chemistry appears to have improved

btw, Uli&Kalle, please buy Friedrich from relegated Hertha. He's shown he got skills in defense, Bayern's weakest point last year.
too late. wolfsburg has picked him up

[macro]

You'll never know what happens, Maradonna might screw up and we'll beat them. It's best shot we have. :o
check
love how everybody and his mom running in the death trap that is underestimate germany, once again.
big advantage for us. watch us walk into semis, hell yeah!!! :D
check
actually i'm very excited about the situation, Schweinsteiger, Lahm and Merte leading, bunch of youngsters playing their first tourney and most likely Löw's last...
It's all set for some great stories and drama of rising stars, dramatic twist and turns and a nation that gets behind their team like we do.
Can't wait...
check
I see you getting all fire and flames if we play well in the first game,
saying we'll win the damn zhing.
say it mambo say it :D

:D :p

[Whoah10115]

Friedrich has been one of the best defenders in the World Cup. Now lets see him not be chosen as an all-star!


And on the Ballack issue...no. The only thing that has happened is that Khedira has been playing and he's been completely useless every single game. Completely.

[fcb_sandy05]

I don't want to jinx anything but a Holland-Germany final is on mutterfickers!!!!

[macro]

bring it on we neuk you guys in de keuken :D

[chaouki]

now let's beat spain, then netherlands and müller wins the award for the most prolific scorer :D

[mambo]

say it mambo say it :D

:D :p


Yeah mate, its totally awesome! :eek: ...and its even getting better from match to match :eek::eek: We are the big attraction of this World Cup so far :eek::eek::eek:

[Übersuperduper]

I hope Jogi Lion and the boys don't get too carried away like some fans are. :p

What I mean is, we have to not forget Herberger's saying of "nach dem spiel ist vor dem spiel." We're not there yet, the focus has to be on Spain which is definitely beatable, and then Jogi the Wizard needs to checkmate Holland/Uruguay in the final if Germany get there.

Overconfidence four years ago against the Italians cost Germany. Let's hope this time, Jogi and the boys don't let it get to their heads and approach this game with the same tenseness that Lahm said they had towards Argentina before the game.

Sorry to be a party pooper :D, it's just that I don't wanna party quite yet, if you know what I mean. ;)

[Übersuperduper]

I don't want to jinx anything but a Holland-Germany final is on mutterfickers!!!!

You can thank Mr.Van Gaal (pronounced Von KhGhRrrrrrrrrraaaaaaal) for this possibility. If he didn't move Piggy to the center and give Thomas priority over Toni, Germany wouldn't have come this far. He also gave Klose a nice 1-year rest to prepare for the WC. :D

[Übersuperduper]

Friedrich has been one of the best defenders in the World Cup. Now lets see him not be chosen as an all-star!


And on the Ballack issue...no. The only thing that has happened is that Khedira has been playing and he's been completely useless every single game. Completely.

Totally agree with you on Friedrich, but disagree on Ballack and Khedira. Ballack slowed down Germany's game, he was simply too slow for the pace that the team has shown in this WC thus far.

And Khedira is basically our Dunga, a player who does nothing but clean up in front of the back four and basically otherwise is anonymous. He's done a pretty good job thus far, even against Messi. He's basically the anti-#10 for Germany, neutralizing the opponent's playmaker.

[Whoah10115]

Totally agree with you on Friedrich, but disagree on Ballack and Khedira. Ballack slowed down Germany's game, he was simply too slow for the pace that the team has shown in this WC thus far.

And Khedira is basically our Dunga, a player who does nothing but clean up in front of the back four and basically otherwise is anonymous. He's done a pretty good job thus far, even against Messi. He's basically the anti-#10 for Germany, neutralizing the opponent's playmaker.



Firstly, please do not do that with Dunga. I hate it when people call him a garbage man or just an enforcer or whatever. More than an enforcer he is the all-time midfield anchor and a playmaker, possessor of one of the best long balls of all-time.


Khedira loves to make forward runs, particularly on quick attacks. He isn't necessarily doing it well, but he's doing it a lot. And throughout every game he does nothing but just run, as if he has no head. Ballack playing from the back would help a lot. He would distribute the game and he's one of the best at making runs into the box.

[Übersuperduper]

Let's just say that I'd rather have Dunga from 1994 than Khedira or Ballack. :)

Ultimately Ballack's game is more old-school German, slow build up, gain momentum, get in the box, score. I'm not so sure he's sharp enough to keep up with the new faster pace, which is partly why Ancelloti moved him into the defensive midfielder position at Chelsea and Jogi Loew wanted to do the same for the German NT before he got injured.

But I think Schweinsteiger is ultimately doing a decent job as midfield playermaker instead of Ballack. What's crazy is that Simon Rolfes was supposed to be playing instead of Khedira but also got injured.

[Quazaar]

I'd still have Ballack in the team over Khedira for sure. That group game against Serbia was just the kind of game Ballack has over and over pulled one out for Germany. If that situation comes up again (say we go down 1-0 to Spain) who else would you want in the box during a free kick. The man is class.

[macro]

I'd still have Ballack in the team over Khedira for sure.

thats not how it works, imo. Schweinsteiger would have replaced Khedira.
Sure Basti would have been the better Khedira.
And Ballack would have been Schweinsteiger, question is would Ballack been better than Schweinsteiger ?
Pretty obvious no.

Not to mention the difference of the team spirit...

[Sataris]

Had a dream we lost the semi-final against spain

Cannavaro scored for spain to make it 5-0 and Khedira was injured on the sideline

Too much weed I think.

[mambo]

Had a dream we lost the semi-final against spain

Cannavaro scored for spain to make it 5-0 and Khedira was injured on the sideline

Too much weed I think.


Since you dreamt of Cannavaro, i think we dont have to worry about any psychic skills of yours :p

[Whoah10115]

thats not how it works, imo. Schweinsteiger would have replaced Khedira.
Sure Basti would have been the better Khedira.
And Ballack would have been Schweinsteiger, question is would Ballack been better than Schweinsteiger ?
Pretty obvious no.

Not to mention the difference of the team spirit...


I don't think there's any way that would happen. Ballack and Schweinsteiger would simply have to work together. Schweinsteiger be in the line-up as a garbage man.

[chaouki]

Schweinsteiger be in the line-up as a garbage man.

what's that supposed to mean?

i wouldn't like a comeback of ballack in the national team, he's not getting younger and most importantly as stated above his presence would destroy the present team chemistry due to his leading-wolf-attitude. i hope once rolfes is fit again he'll get the spot next to schweinsteiger

[sweed]

check

check

check

say it mambo say it :D

:D :p

lol someone wants a pat on the back :p

[macro]

yeah where is my rep, *stands panting on my hindlimbs* *barks*

Ballack left SA. Allegedly because his rehab got to be in Germany.
Oops. :o Ballack watches his furs floating away. :p

[Phil_ogynist]

Come on boys. Lets get to the final for Ballack and Muller.

I predicted us to win and Klose to get golden boot. If I win both, I should just retire from this forum :)

[mambo]

Come on boys. Lets get to the final for Ballack and Muller.

I predicted us to win and Klose to get golden boot. If I win both, I should just retire from this forum :)

Yep, you and souseiseki will be 2 Superpimps if that happens! You guys are the only ones with that combo.

[Phil_ogynist]

I don't think we played well today, but we had a great tournament. Once my anger boner wears off, I'll cry myself to sleep, but we still played well overall and have a lot to look forward to in thefuture.

[Pelle316]

And again we failed to play "our" game against spain. The Euro finals in 2008 were bad... or let's say awful. We did not manage to do anything that year. Today it was a little bit better but still by far the worst game we had this world cup. But credits to spain: They really did their homework and outplayed us today. It's sad because this year we actually played the tournament that would have fit the overall victory. :(

[sweed]

I'm gonna cry :'(

[theburlyman]

How did this happen? :(

[Übersuperduper]

I feel deflated, annoyed, and even a bit angry. Nobody really has a chance to beat Brazil in Brazil in 2014 unless they choose another ultra-defensive coach like Dunga. So really Germany's next chance will be in Europe in 2018. I don't feel as bad as when we lost to Italy 4 years ago in the 119th minute, and in this game Spain deserved to win. But there were a couple points that stood out for me:

1) Why did Lahm have to make that statement about wanting to stay captain after the WC right now? He should've waited until the tournament was over before saying this. It didn't help team harmony for that to be an issue right now.

2) Why did Jogi allow the players to party and drink beer after the Argentina game? Wait till you win the cup, and then party, get drunk as hell, and go dance nude in the streets of Johannesburg. They assumed that all the hard work was done, just like they thought everything was great after the Australia game. Complacency is a big enemy for any team.

3) What happened to the attacking Germany that beat England & Argentina with 4 goals? Why couldn't the team play the whole game like they played after Puyol scored that goal. It was obvious that throughout the tournament teams that played against Spain were ultra-defensive until Spain scored, and then they actually played. Germany abandoned it's offensive philosophy and was scared of Spain. I'm sure that if they played the whole game like they did the last fifteen minutes, the outcome would've been different.

4) Why were Trachowski and Boateng preferred over Kroos and Janssen when the latter have shown they're better whenever they've played so far? At the very least Kroos should've been trusted to replace Muller, not Trachowski. I don't get why Herr Jogi takes Muller's talent seriously but thinks of Kroos as a fringe player, especially after how amazing he was for Leverkusen last year.

5) Why was Gomez subbed instead of Kiessling when Gomez hasn't played one really good game for the NT, while Kiessling created some chances when he came on at the end of the game against Argentina? Kiessling isn't good enough for 90 minutes for the NT yet, but at least he plays 90 minutes for Leverkusen. Gomez had enough chances for the NT and wasn't the sub to save the team at the end.


Overall it's a better-than-expected performance from the team in WC2010, but to be honest, they had the quality to win it and ended up choking against Spain who weren't as good as in 2008. It wasn't just Jogi Lion, but the squad showed nervousness against Spain, while against Argentina they showed belief, anger and dominance. Germany now go to the Euros in two years as the favorite, maybe the best team since 1970 if they continue the attacking philosophy they had before the Spain game. But the next best chance for the WC is in 2018 when it's in Europe, with the young kids in the squad being 28-30 by then.

It's obvious we should stick with Jogi, but if he doesn't win the Euros in two years, it might be time to think of a replacement.

[pkwrigley]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agree completely.

Especially points 4 and 5.

[Quazaar]

3) Germany played almost exactly the same today against Spain as they did against Argentina and England (we had less than 50% possession in both those games IIRC). They sat back and broke on a counter attack when the opponent made a mistake. The difference today was that they didn't score an early goal so Spain didn't have to pour forward and Spain just didnt make as many mistakes technically or tactically as the other teams. When we got the ball we had trouble going forward because Spain was pressing quite well. We had a good spell in the last 15 minutes because Spain stopped pressing and sat back inviting us on the them.

I said it before the game that this team is quite good playing with a lead but is very much lacking when playing from behind or in a tight draw.

4) There was talk that Kroos had a virus the day before the game so its possible that he wasn't fit enough to start and play the whole 90 minutes.

5) Gomez is terrible

[Whoah10115]

Germany now go to the Euros in two years as the favorite, maybe the best team since 1970 if they continue the attacking philosophy they had before the Spain game.



The best team since Brasil in 1970? No way.

[Quazaar]

Yeah .... pretty sure Spain are going to be favourties, its not like most of their players are on the verge of retirement. Lets not let 2 games go to our heads.

[macro]

I feel for Schweinsteiger, such a good tournament and than...
Lets turn the view forward, the future is bright.

[Übersuperduper]

The best team since Brasil in 1970? No way.

LOL, no dude

the best German team since the legendary German 1970-1972 team is what I meant, specifically the team that won Euro72 which is generally accepted as the best German team ever

This team can reach that caliber, although it will be difficult to say the least.

btw, as a Brazilian, do you think it's possible for any other team to win in 2014 besides Brazil?

[chaouki]

well what can you say...spain was better again...but hey we're facing a bright future with those players :)

[Sataris]

well what can you say...spain was better again...but hey we're facing a bright future with those players :)

imagine when these players are 24ish and actually know what theyre doing!

[chaouki]

as i said, bright future ahead :)

[Whoah10115]

LOL, no dude

the best German team since the legendary German 1970-1972 team is what I meant, specifically the team that won Euro72 which is generally accepted as the best German team ever

This team can reach that caliber, although it will be difficult to say the least.

btw, as a Brazilian, do you think it's possible for any other team to win in 2014 besides Brazil?


Oh OK...that's still a lot to ask, though I've loved this generation of German players since 2006. Germany really should have won that tournament. BTW, how much better is the 1970-72 team than the team in 1974? Off the top of my head I don't remember what players were missing or if anyone was out of their prime by then.



Yes. I think Germany will be a great team but will have a tough time doing it in Brasil. Argentina...they should have a great team and Messi should be in his prime by then (scary he isn't there yet) and I think that all the boos they'll get (a first in World Cup play) will actually drive them. They can't win tho.


The team that I think could really win in 2014 is...Spain. I don't know that Puyol can hold out that long, how close to his prime Xavi will still be. Same for Villa. But Torres should be close to his. Cesc will be in his, Iniesta hopefully, Sergio Ramos, Pique, Iker, David Silva, Xabi. If Xavi drops deeper like Pirlo, add Cesc and put Silva back in the line-up...as long as Puyol is still great (hard to say) and they add a better LB or play some insane 3man line, they could seriously be a better team than they are right now. That and they have to not be as arrogant as they've gotten over the past two years.


I seriously think if Spain lose this Sunday they're gonna be a handful in 2014. Brasil...I wonder about Lucio and Juan and our DM's. If those two are still great (even not as good) or we replace them with somewhat similar quality and we actually have DM's and CM's who are world class...we could have one of our great teams. I believe Dinho can still be up for it so lets see.

[sweed]

We got the next two Euros and the next World Cup on lock :p

[Sataris]

That we do

Last 3 World Cups
02: 2nd
06: 3rd
10: 3rd

14 looks like another loss in the final :o

[flier5]

14 looks like another loss in the final :o

Almost any team in the world would love to have that problem.. Germans, man :p

[Übersuperduper]

Germany has to go to Euro2012 and WC2014 with the total belief that they will win it. No more bullshit "our goal is to get to the final" like in Euro2008 or "we reached our goal of the semifinal" in this WC. Notice how each time the team reached its goal and then lost. There has to be a throwback to the days of Rummenigge saying "Fuck off Chancellor" to Helmut Kohl in the locker room when they lost to Argentina in the final in Mexico City(after Chancellor Kohl told Rummenigge he's a good ambassador for Germany lol), this extreme super belief that they can win it and they will no matter who they're up against, such that a loss can't even be imagined. And this was in a really tight game against Maradona at his prime. :cool:

The only person I have a problem with in this team is Lahm, I just wish he shut the hell up when Ballack visited and didn't create that commotion with the captaincy issue until after the WC was over and the team was back in Germany. It's obvious that the team played better without Ballack and that perhaps Michael created tension in the team with his style of leadership. But if it were up to me, I'd give the captaincy to Schweinsteiger for Lahm's selfishness of promoting himself at the wrong time and wrong place.

Badstuber or Hummels should be able to take over from excellent Friedrich, if not in 2 years, then in Brazil. Janssen is a better left-back imho than Boateng, but Jerome might improve with playing in the Premiere League. I prefer Rolfes over Khedira when he's fit, and I think Neuer should remain #1 in goal. Kroos needs to be trusted for 90 minutes, while Müller should be up front with Kießling in the future. But you never know, there will be young players coming up who we don't know of right now.

But even though the team definitely surpassed my expectations(was expecting a 2-1 type of win against England and then a 1-0 loss against Argentina in the quarters), it wasn't mentally strong enough to be arrogant against Spain and show its true game. Part of the problem was definitely Trochowski not being as good as Müller(amazing considering how only 1 year ago Müller was playing in 3rd division for FCB II). But part of the problem was also Jogi Lion not risking Kroos for 90 minutes(unless like somebody said already he had the flu, but still, it's the WC so you have to go all in), and of course Mr.Lahm deciding to get the worst timing of the year award with his comments on the captaincy. I also don't think it helped to party and drink after the game against Argentina, it smelled of complacency.

So we'll see how things go in two years in Poland&Ukraine(why couldn't Uefa just choose 1??). But hopefully the old German mental strength will combine with the new style of offensive play to create even more amazing results with a winners medal at the end. Hoffentlich!! :)

[macro]

will be interesting to see how Löw will integrate Kroos into the game and how he will manage the Ballack situation. :p

Khedira is a good kid. Give m time and he will shine. :D hopefully

[sweed]

will be interesting to see how Löw will integrate Kroos into the game and how he will manage the Ballack situation. :p

Khedira is a good kid. Give m time and he will shine. :D hopefully

Hopefully bye-bye Ballack. Everyone's seen what we can do without him.

Khedira is good but he hasn't impressed my much. Maybe he needs just that, more playing time. Possibly at Bayern with his NT partner Schweini :p

Kroos I'm concerned about because his position is currently taken by Oezil. Unless he can drop back more and play a more central role that'd be great (for both club and country). Time and LvG will tell how that will all end up.

I say we resign Loew to a two year deal expiring after the Euros and see what happens after that tournament.

[flier5]

So Cacau experiment failed and DNMS is stuck with Kießling :p :D Does Podolski still do the same thing? not sure if he could replace Klose's goals

Other than that, could Metzelder come back in or would Friedrich stick around for E2012? but Boateng could also blast onto the scene at City..

[due]

Well, we have a couple of "obvious" players lining up for Klose succession ->

Mario Gomez, Kevin Kuranyi, Stefan Kießling, Lukas Podolski, Thomas Müller, Patrick Helmes and Cacau. They're all under 30 (and will be in 4 years, apart from Kuranyi and Cacau) and are proven Bundesliga players.

In the long run, the u21 strikers might get interesting as well ->

André Schürrle, Julian Schieber and Richard Sukuta-Pasu.

I can't see an obviuos replacement yet. Gomez might get there, Helmes might return to form ... Müller for me is not a "striker", no. 9 type of player, neither are Poldi and Kießling. Will be interesting to see what Löw comes up with :)

[macro]

Atm i'd say Kießling is the most likely to make the next step and I can see him very well playing a lone striker role.

[Phil_ogynist]

I think Klose might stick around until Euro. Any rumors to indicate otherwise?

[chaouki]

not that i heard of...but i don't think he would play that way under another coach than löw...he needs to get cradled like a baby to feel comfortable and trusted. only then he can play well and score

[Phenom]

Hopefully bye-bye Ballack. Everyone's seen what we can do without him.



exactly the German team certainly doesnt need Ballack

[mambo]

Boo for Frankfurt :mad:
http://i28.tinypic.com/i1ip2g.jpg

edit: Ballack was our only World Class player and a great leader in the past years. Not sure if he makes it to the next Euro, but we will surely see him playing the qualification for us (if not injured).

[Übersuperduper]

simple solution: play Kroos as the winger and move Muller up to replace Klose. However Kiessling might replace Podolski, or we could see younger strikers who are too young right now, like Felix Kroos, shine in four years. But Kiessling has good movement for a big man, definitely better than I expected. Plus let's not forget about Patrick Helmes.

I also have to agree with King Uli, we need to see the DFB and Jogi Lion compromise and mend fences with each other. There's no point in damaging the team because Sammer and Bierhoff can't get along.

[jr!]

surprised nobody posted this. I wish I went to a sports Uni...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/7937578/Englands-World-Cup-humiliation-laid-bare-by-German-PhD-students.html

[chaouki]

thanks for sharing, i always thought it was stupid to play gerrard on the left flank

[macro]

Italy today!
Good chance we beat them again since 1995.
I'm still upset about 2006, i demand a brutal 4:1 drubbing. :)

[batig0al]

Hell yea, we are so much better than them!

[chaouki]

Hell yea, we are so much better than them!

at the moment fortunately everything looks like it

the frankfurter rundschau this morning displayed the line-up as followed

germany:
neuer
lahm-mertesacker-hummels-schmelzer
khedira-schweinsteiger
müller-özil-podolski
klose

after ht götze etc are set to be introduced

italy:
buffon
cassani-ranocchia-bonucci-chiellini
montolivo-motta-de rossi
mauri
cassano-pazzini

the whole backline (except for chiellini) are unknown names for me (sbd who only stumbles over italian clubs in uefa cup/ucl...seems as if the old guys have finally made way for younger players. no more maldini and gattuso :(

may the better one (germany :P) win!!!

[due]

Now that result was mildly disappointing. Didn't get to see much of the match but from what I got it sounded like we should have won it ... again ;)

Starting 11 I'd like to see:

Neuer
Lahm-Hummels-Badstuber-Schmelzer
Schweini-Khedira
Müller-Özil-Götze
Klose/Gomez

Time to give the future CB duo a start :p

[macro]

is Badstuber better than Höwedes?

[due]

Good point. Not sure, I'm probably somewhat biased ;) Might be worth a try. Although Hummels and Badstuber should know each other from Bayern youth teams, might help a little with the conversation and stuff. Höwe is a Sch*lker, remember? :p

[chaouki]

Although Hummels and Badstuber should know each other from Bayern youth teams, might help a little with the conversation and stuff.

worked pretty well today don't you think? podolski was very poor once more, but the rest was pretty fine. götze was very good, kroos had his brilliant moments, schürrle a nice finish. overall a real pleasure to watch...bright times ahead :)

[macro]

Good point. Not sure, I'm probably somewhat biased ;) Might be worth a try. Although Hummels and Badstuber should know each other from Bayern youth teams, might help a little with the conversation and stuff. Höwe is a Sch*lker, remember? :p

after the last two games it's Merte and Hummels for me.

Müller my most favorite player, I always liked him but now he's my top top player.

[chaouki]

after the last two games it's Merte and Hummels for me.

Müller my most favorite player, I always liked him but now he's my top top player.

mertesacker? i thought he was quite poor today but maybe this had to do with träsch playing to his right who seemed to be more than lost...but i'll definitely agree with you on hummels

[due]

Merte looked pretty lost to me as well. Might have a lot to do with Rolfes playing completely shite though ;) Didn't really watch closely enough to give a proper rating for anyone other than that ... oh, and of course Thomas is man of the match, like he should have been on Friday as well.

Badstuber has been looking great for Bayern so far this season. He wasn't all that great on Friday though. Again, could have to do with the def mid not being as tightly knit as it's with Bayern right now, but I guess we'll see Löw try some more combinations before settling for a CB couple.

[jr!]

I read today that Löw has used 7 different backline combinations in 9 games this year or something to that effect, of course, can't find the stat now...

[jr!]

New EURO2012 jerseys unveiled today, look like shit IMHO.

http://www.dfb.de/fileadmin/Image_Archive/News/mueller_26_29940_p880722.jpg

Apparently the away jersey will be green again, don't know how I feel about that...