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jorquera

12-11-2007, 12:44 PM

Hicks Wants Roma Takeover

The co-owner of Liverpool FC, Tom Hicks, is lining up a takeover of AS Roma, according to reports in Italy.

The Dallas businessman has an estimated wealth of well over $1 billion and earlier this year bought a 50 per cent share in Premiership giants Liverpool.

However Hicks is now eyeing up the Italian Serie A and is trying to convince current President Franco Sensi to sell up. Hicks already made initial enquiries a few months ago however he is now ready to step up the pressure.

The 61-year-old co-founded the investment firm Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst in 1989, and is also the chairman of Hicks Inc, which owns and runs the Southwest Sports Group - the company that owns MLB’s Texas Rangers, NHL’s Dallas Stars, and the Mesquite Championship Rodeo.

If Hicks was to take over Roma, it could spark the beginning of foreign ownership in Serie A. Currently all 20 presidents in the top-flight are Italian, unlike the English Premier League which is now dominated by overseas owners.

Source (http://goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=478076)

Thought this should deserve its own thread even though I highly doubt this will happen. First, Roma is doing very well atm and Sensis love the club. There are debts but things are clearly going in the right direction. This would be the first time when a foriegner would takeover a Italian club and I think Italian FA wouldn't be too happy about it.

As a Roma fan I don't want this takeover. We are going in the right direction and the club is owned by people who love the club. They have invested so much in this club and they don't think of Roma as some investment.

roma_barca

12-11-2007, 05:48 PM

The investment from Hicks will never reach the investment of Sensi and others.

The first : $$$

The second : love

I totally agree with you. If they do so, my love will have a doubt. And this kind of doubt among my love would be awful and terrible. The "intro. song", what would be his meaning ? A souvenir from Rome ? Junk, decoration ?

Many thing would be brought : players, money, cash, sell of shirts, ...
Many thing would be lost : passion, Rome-attitude, all my love...

PLEASE NO

Whateverman

12-11-2007, 06:11 PM

Hicks Wants Roma Takeover
Imo this would be bad news for AS Roma.
Even though i'm not that big on AS Roma... but i'm big on Italia.
What's happening in England is crazy, foreign owners, foreign coaches...

cartbran

12-11-2007, 06:33 PM

It cannot happen. One person, firm, investment group cannot have ownership interest in two clubs simultaneously. It is against UEFA rules. When UEFA enacted the rule, ENIC had interest in Slavia Prague, Spurs and a Greek team (Panthanaikos?). They sued UEFA in the European Court of Justice over the rule and lost and subsequently sold off their interest in the other clubs (in theory, I have no idea what they did in practice).

Hicks would not be able to buy even a small percentage of AS Roma as long as he still owns even a minor interest in Liverpool. I don't know the exact details, particularly for clubs whose shares are traded on the exchange (a declining number of clubs nowadays anyways), but my understanding is that this sort of thing would not be allowable until he sells on Liverpool. Which I assume he is going to do after they build the new stadium.

kaku

12-11-2007, 11:27 PM

Sawyer

12-11-2007, 11:31 PM

Roma is beautiful club.. it should be run by the heart of Rome... Not by money..

sneupane01

13-11-2007, 12:01 AM

the only people who have the right to run the club are the italians of rome who love the club.

malaujai

13-11-2007, 12:40 AM

"Hicks" is such a great name. Makes for the humourous thread title. LOL.

cartbran

13-11-2007, 03:16 AM

Rumour over. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Hicks denies any interest in acquiring Roma (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=481660&cc=5901)

Seany463

14-11-2007, 12:42 AM

roma_barca

14-11-2007, 08:03 AM

Rumour over. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Thank you for the article. However, this is clearly communication. Where is the truth then ?

I think that if we saw all this little circus in the media, it is because of an interest. This is frightening. Now maybe he got kicked, that would explain the article you linked. We got to be careful and at the same time, we don't have much to say about all this business. As we were not concerned (Olimpico is no more full, except for a derby). But this concerns us ( and moreover my Roma_passion :rolleyes: ) after all, no ?

cartbran

14-11-2007, 08:08 AM

Thank you for the article. However, this is clearly communication. Where is the truth then ?

I think that if we saw all this little circus in the media, it is because of an interest. This is frightening. Now maybe he got kicked, that would explain the article you linked. We got to be careful and at the same time, we don't have much to say about all this business. As we were not concerned (Olimpico is no more full, except for a derby). But this concerns us ( and moreover my Roma_passion :rolleyes: ) after all, no ?
You want to know what I think? I think Hicks was interested and he did go over and meet the Roma folks, but he was ignorant of UEFA rules and when we found out that he would have a problem buying Roma with his controlling stake in Liverpool, he decided that it was no deal. Or maybe, he found out a little bit about the financial situation with Italian clubs and decided it was bad business.

kaku

15-11-2007, 02:25 AM

Or maybe, he found out a little bit about the financial situation with Italian clubs and decided it was bad business.
Why italian clubs in general?:confused: I think the financial situation of A.C. Milan must be quite good, especially with the way Berlusconi is running the club.;)(from a financial point of view.As a fan it leaves a lot to be desired.)

Not the best time to invest in italian football though.:(

Anyway, i think everyone, especially Roma fans, is happy with this outcome.;)

roma_barca

15-11-2007, 08:16 AM

You want to know what I think? I think Hicks was interested and he did go over and meet the Roma folks, but he was ignorant of UEFA rules and when we found out that he would have a problem buying Roma with his controlling stake in Liverpool, he decided that it was no deal. Or maybe, he found out a little bit about the financial situation with Italian clubs and decided it was bad business.

I guess you're right. Moreover with the latest accident in Italia linked to the football community. I think this finished to achieve his ideas.

jorquera

16-11-2007, 05:54 PM

Sensi family hit back. Good move by them.

Sensi Warns Hicks: Don’t Touch Our Club

The daughter of Roma President Franco Sensi has warned any interested parties, including Liverpool owner Tom Hicks that they will face ‘trouble’ if they try to take over the club.

There had been strong reports in the English and Italian press earlier in the week that Dallas businessman Hicks, who is the co-owner of Liverpool and has an estimated wealth over $1 billion, was preparing a take-over bid for Roma.

Franco Sensi is now 81-years-old and there have been suggestions that due to his advancing years he may be tempted into selling.

However Rosella Sensi, who is also the administrative delegate of the Giallorossi, has said in no uncertain terms that the club will stay in the family when her father decides to pass on his powers.

“Roma is ours, nobody can touch it,” said Sensi.

“The club will remain with the Sensi family. There will be trouble for anyone who tries to touch it. My father is still alive and continues to play an active role within the club.”

Source (http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=483003)

cartbran

16-11-2007, 07:30 PM

Why italian clubs in general?:confused: I think the financial situation of A.C. Milan must be quite good, especially with the way Berlusconi is running the club.;)(from a financial point of view.As a fan it leaves a lot to be desired.)

Not the best time to invest in italian football though.:(

Anyway, i think everyone, especially Roma fans, is happy with this outcome.;)
Because Italian clubs have had notoriously bad finances for years. When the Italian govt enacted the new accounting rules for football clubs in Italy a few years ago, it almost sent half the clubs into administration.

All of the top clubs in Italy are bankrolled by multi-millionaire/billionaire benefactors: Milan, Inter, Roma, etc. The situation in Italy is such that most of the revenue that clubs receive comes from sponsorships. While you could look at that and say, wow, there is a huge potential there for growth in matchday revenue in Italy, Italian stadiums are disgraceful compared to their counterparts across Europe. You cannot attract families and higher earning fans because the stadiums are in bad shape and they are not going to want to pay top dollar for a ticket in Italy for such spartan accomodation, particularly when they have to be worried about fan violence. And the fans groups are so powerful, that trying to raise ticket prices would cause riots. Plus, most Italians that I know have very little money to spend on entertainment, because the cost of living in Italy is so high that most are just making it through month-to-month and Italians do not have the same attitude towards credit that Americans or Brits do and would never consider buying their season tickets on their credit card if they knew they could not pay it back right away. Add to that the fact that it would be next to impossible to get all the permissions necessary to build a new state of the art stadium in Italy and if you add it all up, Italian football is bad business at the time being.

Italian football basically stands right now where English football did in the late 80's and early 90's. A lot needs to be done to clean it up and make it profitable. And perhaps a bigger problem is just about changing perceptions among ordinary Italians about football, most of whom see it as the past-time of the ignorant, poor and violent. And you know what, they are right. Contrast to Britain, where football is actually more and more becoming the past-time of the corporate box patron.

kaku

16-11-2007, 10:07 PM

San Siro is not in a bad shape.In fact it's in much better condition than most other stadiums in Europe.

Additionally, Milan have sold 43,140 season tickets and they don't even include CL games.Another13.000 CL season tickets have been sold.Two weeks before Milan - Juventus 12,007 tickets for the game have been sold, and we'll definitely have a full house for the occassion.

Add all the revenue from the CL , reaching at least the quarter/semi-finals on a regular basis, the bonus for winning it last season, TV rights etc. and that's, most definitely, not bad at all.

cartbran

16-11-2007, 10:39 PM

San Siro is not in a bad shape.In fact it's in much better condition than most other stadiums in Europe.

Actually, as far a amenities go, it is not a good as many stadiums in England. Even Championship level teams in England play in grounds with better amenities than the San Siro.

But....let's just assume that you are correct and even go beyond that. Let's assume that the San Siro is the best facility in Europe. What's left after that?

First, let me identify some standards of good stadium. (1) If it has a running track around the pitch, it is not a good venue for football. (2) Does it have seats with backs on them? (3) Does it have a nice concourse with options for food, drink and shops for club memorabilia? If the answers to those questions are yes, yes and no, then it is not generally a good stadium.

Now, lets look at some examples from some of the top teams in Italy. Stadio Della Alpi was horrible that Juventus abandoned it and both Juve and Torino play at the remolded Olympic Stadium in Turin. How nice is that Stadium? Well it is functional, it also has a running track around it, so the answer there is no. Going down the Estadio Olimipco, shared by Roma and Lazio. Running track? Yes. Seat backs? No. General state of disrepair? Undoubtedly. The Artemio Franchi where Fiorentina play has a running track and is a fairly bare bones concrete affair. Another stadium I am intricately familiar with is also called the Artemio Franchi and it is where Siena play. That stadium actually has metal bleachers. While it is in a world class location near the center of Siena, the stadium offers nothing else but spartan facilities.

I am not going to argue with you that Milan sell a lot of tickets. That is true. But total match day revenue for Milan, the richest team in Italy, only comprises 16% of total turnover. For Juve it is even less, 10%. Those figures are well below those other top clubs. For comparison: Real Madrid (23%), Manchester United (42%), Barcelona (32%), etc.

http://www.superbrands.com/newsletters/pdfs/56.pdf

Italian clubs make up for it in higher than average sponsorship and TV money, which is likely related to their owner/benefactors being captains of Italian business and industry. The only way for Italian clubs to improve the matchday revenues is to improve the matchday experience and that is through massive investment in the stadium infrastructure in the country. Which has not been done since the 1990 World Cup. The country basically built or rehabilitated a bunch of new stadiums then and then let them rot for nearly 30 years. Additionally, since so few clubs actually own their own stadiums, they don't have control over that and are reliant on the government to fund stadium improvements. It is a bad situation.

Most Italian clubs lose money. Attendance has been falling at Serie A matches (on average), substantially over the past 15 years. Hooliganism is rampant. And the country itself is turning its interest towards other sports, like basketball. Eurobasket is rising in popularity just as football is reaching all-time lows.

kaku

16-11-2007, 11:40 PM

That a lot of stadiums need to be modernised is true, and noone can argue that there isn't a problem with hooliganism in italian football these days but that's due to social problems as Seedorf correctly stated(for starters, italian police shouldn't just hand out guns to officers who don't know how and when to use them).The biggest problems are in the north, the poorest part of the country.

While it could be true that one of the reasons that Italian clubs have higher than average sponsorship is because "their owner/benefactors being captains of Italian business and industry", Milan currently have 18 sponsors, adidas, bwin, audi, sony among others.While Berlusconi is undoubtedly a very influential man in Italy, it's a very positive thing for a company to be associated with Milan.Our fans never caused any problems in recent years, in Europe or domestically, we're quite successful in Europe(the most successful club in Europe in recent years) and have a huge following.

I agree that Euroleague is rising in popularity, but basketball has always been popular in the mediterranean countries(Spain, Italy, Greece mainly).Basketball will always be popular, but i don't think it will ever overcome football.

I don't believe that any of the big clubs in Italy is for sale, anyway.The richest people in the country are the owners of these clubs(Moratti, Berlusconi, Agnieli family) and even the Sensi family has made it quite clear Roma is not for sale either.No russian, american or whatever nationality businessman can go to these people and tell them he wants to buy the club.Only if they want to get out of football, they will ever sale.

And heh, i've reached the conclusion that the daughters, for some reason, of the owners have quite a bit influence on their dads.Berlusconi also mentioned his daughter in an interview(to deny some rumours) and now Sensi's daughter has come out to set things straight.

There are other a lot more lucrative business activities than football anyway.It's a bad investment move, if you are after profits(and i'm talking about any country, not just Italy).But nothing can give you the prestige that being in charge of one of the biggest football clubs in Europe will.

cartbran

16-11-2007, 11:58 PM

The biggest problems are in the north, the poorest part of the country.

Hmmm... I don't know about that. AFAIK, the poorest regions of Italy are in the south, like Calabria and Basilicata. Northern Italy, beginning with Umbria or Tuscany and moving north is generally extremely prosperous. The south cannot compare to wealth of Florence/Tuscany, Milan/Lombardy, Venice/Veneto and Piedmont/Turin. There is just no comparison really. The north is in fact so much more wealthy than the south that there is a whole political party, the Lega Nord, that want the north of Italy to secede from the south and form it's own country because they don't like so much of their tax money going to the support the south.

kaku

16-11-2007, 11:59 PM

Hmmm... I don't know about that. AFAIK, the poorest regions of Italy are in the south, like Calabria and Basilicata. Northern Italy, beginning with Umbria or Tuscany and moving north is generally extremely prosperous. The south cannot compare to wealth of Florence/Tuscany, Milan/Lombardy, Venice/Veneto and Piedmont/Turin. There is just no comparison really. The north is in fact so much more wealthy than the south that there is a whole political party, the Lega Nord, that want the north of Italy to secede from the south and form it's own country because they don't like so much of their tax money going to the support the south.
Oooops, yes indeed.It was just a mistake, i meant south.

Whateverman

17-11-2007, 08:50 AM

Now, lets look at some examples from some of the top teams in Italy. Stadio Della Alpi was horrible that Juventus abandoned it and both Juve and Torino play at the remolded Olympic Stadium in Turin. How nice is that Stadium? Well it is functional, it also has a running track around it, so the answer there is no. Going down the Estadio Olimipco, shared by Roma and Lazio. Running track? Yes. Seat backs? No. General state of disrepair? Undoubtedly. The Artemio Franchi where Fiorentina play has a running track and is a fairly bare bones concrete affair.

Stadio Olimpico di Torino doesn't have running tracks, same goes for Viola's Artemio Franchi.

But generally you are right. Losing out to Ukraine/Poland to stage the Euro 2012 didn't help either, it would have helped fund renovating some stadiums.

Juve prepare stadium plans

Juventus President Giovanni Cobolli Gigli has promised that the Bianconeri will announce the plans for their new stadium within the next six weeks.

The Old Lady are currently sharing the Stadio Olimpico - which played host to last year’s Winter Olympics - with city rivals Torino.

“We are working towards a new stadium and a decision will be made in a month or maybe a month and a half,” Cobolli Gigli told the Juventus Channel.

“We will have a new home and it will be a stadium only for the Bianconeri, which will contain action, sporting and non-sporting, seven days a week.”

jorquera

17-11-2007, 10:26 AM

And heh, i've reached the conclusion that the daughters, for some reason, of the owners have quite a bit influence on their dads.Berlusconi also mentioned his daughter in an interview(to deny some rumours) and now Sensi's daughter has come out to set things straight.

Franco Sensi is already 81 years old and his health isn't the best either. Because of that his daughter Rosella is taking care of the club now. Franco is retired from managing the club and Rosella manages the club. So Rosella has more influence on Roma atm because she is pulling the strings and managing finances now. Of course the old man has the last word but Rosella is now managing the everyday business.

That's why Sensi's daughter denied the reports of anyone taking over. Franco Sensi rarely says something in media these days. In press conferences it is always Rosella Sensi who represents the family.

Just to clear things up a bit.

kaku

17-11-2007, 06:15 PM

Franco Sensi is already 81 years old and his health isn't the best either. Because of that his daughter Rosella is taking care of the club now. Franco is retired from managing the club and Rosella manages the club. So Rosella has more influence on Roma atm because she is pulling the strings and managing finances now. Of course the old man has the last word but Rosella is now managing the everyday business.

That's why Sensi's daughter denied the reports of anyone taking over. Franco Sensi rarely says something in media these days. In press conferences it is always Rosella Sensi who represents the family.

Just to clear things up a bit.
Is she his only child?And seems she said Roma will stay with the family, does that mean she will become the first female team owner in Serie A and maybe in the world?:)

cartbran

17-11-2007, 07:29 PM

Stadio Olimpico di Torino doesn't have running tracks, same goes for Viola's Artemio Franchi.

But generally you are right. Losing out to Ukraine/Poland to stage the Euro 2012 didn't help either, it would have helped fund renovating some stadiums.
Actually, Stadio Olimipico di Torino did historically have a running track, now it is well disguised. The former running track now forms a sort of moat between the fans the pitch. Not a bad idea really. I don't think it works as a functional track anymore. But I guess that sort of design is necessary in Italy because of missiles and such. So, yeah, no running track now and not a bad design for security purposes really.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/italy/piemonte/torino_comunale2.jpg

And yeah, I was totally wrong about Fiorentina. I have seen the stadium from the outside in person and see matches on TV and for some reason always thought there was a running track on the inside.

Is she his only child?And seems she said Roma will stay with the family, does that mean she will become the first female team owner in Serie A and maybe in the world?:)

Referring to female majority shareholder or female chairman?

Real Sociedad had a female chairman until recently, Maria De La Peña. She just resigned though.

kaku

17-11-2007, 09:53 PM

Referring to female majority shareholder or female chairman?

Real Sociedad had a female chairman until recently, Maria De La Peña. She just resigned though.
Interesting, i didn't know that.

I would have thought both, but since R. Sociedad beat Roma to it(if Sensi's daughter takes over after her dad dies) female majority shareholder then.Unless there's, or has been, a female majority sharsholder too.

roma_barca

18-11-2007, 07:25 PM

illenium

26-11-2007, 01:30 AM

geez isnt this guy rich enough.

sketch

27-11-2007, 12:01 AM

Just wondering, but are any SerieA teams not owned by an Italians? I suppose its possible one day, but I wouldn't expect the traditions to ever allow an outsider to buy a club.

geez isnt this guy rich enough.

Funny coming from an Inter fan, whose owner comes in 2nd for all-time transfer spending.

Whateverman

28-11-2007, 01:35 PM

Just wondering, but are any SerieA teams not owned by an Italians?

All Serie A clubs are owned by italians as far as I know.

I even did a little research, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong:

Juve - Agnelli family; Milan - Berlusconi; Inter - Moratti; Roma - Sensi; Lazio - Lotito; Napoli - De Laurentiis; Fiorentina - Della Valle; Parma - Ghirardi; Udinese - Pozzo; Palermo - Zamparini; Atalanta - Ruggeri; Sampdoria - Garrone; Catania - Pulvirenti; Torino - Cairo; Genoa - Preziosi; Livorno - Spinelli; Reggina - Foti; Empoli - Corsi; Siena - Fabrizi; Cagliari - Cellino.

cartbran

28-11-2007, 05:10 PM

You all said and developped good , especially you cartbran.

But the only thing I can say is that any sport wont reach the popularity of football in Italia. The only times I went in, I saw men holding restaurant watching TV with the bet ticket in the hand, completely forgetting the customers. This scene I saw it too in a "bread & candies" shop.

I never seen this anywhere else :)

That maybe true, but is any euro of what they are doing generating income for the clubs? They are watching a match on TV and probably more interested in the outcome because of their betting slip than because of anything else. It is extremely common to see old pensioners sitting in bars in Italy watching football on TV. But what about the younger generation?

Many are interested in football, but just as equal many detest football. They are not just ambivalent about it, they truly detest it. And that has to do mainly with social class. The kind of people that are interested in football in Italy are basically young, uneducated, drunkards with a propensity towards violence. Most people who play football in Italy are extremely uneducated and ignorant. They are less educated than English footballers, which is saying something, because those lads and their Wags are friggin' idiots.

The middle class in Italy and their children, generally the people who finish high school and go on to college, are generally more interested in other sports. Basketball is typically first on the list, but other sports also have their own level of popularity, like water polo. I know this are sweeping generalizations, but I have not met a single middle class Italian who has been to university and cares a single bit about football. It is not just that they don't care about it, they detest it. Love or hate, it is the Italian style.

roma_barca

28-11-2007, 10:05 PM

Well, my little brother went on Salerno due to an "Erasmus semestrial trip". That time I went there. I'll ask him because he knows more than me on that subject, just he was in University then ;)

The only thing I can say now that goes in your developpment, is that he never could go out the day of the last World Cup Final, as French he could have been hit. I mean he went out at night generally, but that time he didn't feel secure. I'll ask him about your view on Italian supporters and their class ;) - :) Nice anyway to hear something that tries to produce an analysis :)

Whateverman

30-11-2007, 10:32 PM

The kind of people that are interested in football in Italy are basically young, uneducated, drunkards with a propensity towards violence. Most people who play football in Italy are extremely uneducated and ignorant. They are less educated than English footballers, which is saying something, because those lads and their Wags are friggin' idiots.

Nice anyway to hear something that tries to produce an analysis :)

Yeah, that's some serious fuckin' analysis, players are stupid and fans are violent drunks!