France National Team callups ** SPOILERS **

[Inara47]

Originally Posted by talk2smc

i just dont understand how the best French players hardly make it on to the NT which one would logically think is the best players in their respective countries. particularly Mexes. it is solely due to Domenech's personality and aura of self proclaimed genius that he excludes someone who is talented and has no clear equal in the position. if he can cancel out Ibra, Trez himself, Ronaldo, Mutu, Amauri, Di Natale, and others most times they meet why cant he do that when each of those players represents their NT? (with the exception of Amauri who has yet to make a debut, and Trez cuz they wouldnt play each other obviously.)

Well, look at who is blocking Trezeguet: Henry, Anelka, and Benzema. Those three deserve to be on the NT just as much. And at the end of the day, it's a question of tactics. If three of the four strikers you have can fit into the system you prefer, you aren't going to change it around just to accommodate a single one. And don't forget that Trezeguet was called up to several games last year and didn't score. He had his chance, and with the Euros this close, Domenech doesn't have time to experiment. He has to go with what has been working, and that's been Henry, Anelka, and Benzema.

As for Mexes, I suspect part of the reason Domenech doesn't trust him is because of the fact that he's a messy defender - he picks up cards a lot, gets sent off more than any other French defender, and it's what you'd call a smooth and tactically efficient player, which is what Domenech wants his team to be. He wants players that fit together and play well together. It could be that Mexes just doesn't fit into the set up of the rest of the team. Maybe he isn't serious at practice, who knows?

It's not about Domenech hating Italy. Domenech didn't pick Mexes before the WC. He dropped Trezeguet six months after the WC, half a year into Euro qualifiers. Vieira, the captain of his team, players for Inter. As for Frey, Domenech has said time and again that there is a hierarchy, and until Coupet messes up time after time, he won't change that. It wouldn't matter if Frey played for Arsenal. Coupet is #1 and that's the end of that.

Originally Posted by emma_my_girl

Hey, don't get me wrong- I am a big Lyon fan and love the way that Clerc and Toulalan fit in the club; I just don't see a future for either of them in the French national outfit. I can only see that Bakary Sagna is going to evolve as star at right back once Sagnol has used up his legs. As far as Toulalan is concerned, I do like him, but there are other up and comers in the French lineup who will squeeze him out indefinitely- Rio Antonio Mavuba, Samir Nasri and Abou Diaby to be exact. Toulalan is solid, but as far as I am concerned, doesn't really excel in any one skill- something that the aforementioned players all have in common.

First of all, Nasri and Diaby are not DMs. They are more suited to attacking roles, which is where their talents should be utilized. As for Mavuba, he was rightly pushed off the pecking order by Toulalan last year after he moved to Villareal and watched his form plummet, so he's going to have to work really hard to get back into the NT.

Toulalan is an immense player, probably the most underrated player on Lyon's side, the most consistent, and the most reliable. He is just as important as Benzema, so don't be fooled by the fact that he doesn't seem to do anything amazing. The beauty of his role is that he doesn't let anyone else do anything amazing either. He's performed well in the Champions League and for the NT, so all this nonsense of proving himself in another league is irrelevant in this discussion (which is specifically about how a player is for his NT), especially if you're going to accept other L1 players.

I don't know what you mean by his not excelling in any skill when he is so good at doing what he's supposed to do - being a DM. Domenech isn't asking him to be a playmaker, he's asking him to distribute the ball in midfield, protect the back four, effectively use long passes, and break up opposition play.

Domenech is giving everyone a fair chance - Diarra, Toulalan, Mavuba, Flamini, etc. He's choosing the one he feels is best for the job and who works best with the already established players. Of course, Toulalan will have to work to keep his place, but it's unfair to think that he doesn't deserve it when in fact he deserves more recognition that he receives.

As for Sagna and Clerc, right now, Sagna seems like a better player, but Sagnol was a late bloomer, as Clerc is turning out to be. He's been getting better and better, and Domenech obviously sees something in him to keep selecting him repeatedly. So you shouldn't write him off so easily.

[talk2smc]

Originally Posted by Inara47

It's not about Domenech hating Italy.

Yes it most certainly is, Domenech himself would admit that.

But as for all the selection issues, disagree with Henry, Anelka, Benzema. Only two deserve to be there. Check out the other one who doesnt score.

and as for Mexes, most people say that when they havent seen him play a single game. (the whole lot about him being sloppy)

but again i reiterate it doesnt much matter as, no matter how shitty Domenech is, which is alot, he still ends up getting wins a ton. so one can only question him so much i suppose.

[Inara47]

Originally Posted by talk2smc

Yes it most certainly is, Domenech himself would admit that.

Domenech likes to make his disdain known to the press, but he doesn't select players based on that. Or he wouldn't call up any Italian player. It wouldn't shock anyone if he dropped Mexes and replaced Frey with someone like Lloris or Mandanda, so if he based his selections on his likes and dislikes, it makes no sense for him to call up those players either or give Vieira the captaincy. And it's not because he's worried what people will think - we all know that Domenech doesn't care about that. And he also hates Arsene Wenger, but that doesn't stop him from picking a bunch of Arsenal players.

Because for Domenech, individuals aren’t what’s important. It’s all about the team. And that’s not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by talk2smc

But as for all the selection issues, disagree with Henry, Anelka, Benzema. Only two deserve to be there. Check out the other one who doesnt score.

Anelka has been scoring for the NT, and that's what Domenech cares about. Not who the top scorer is in a certain league. But whether they can do so for France. Henry just broke Platini's record. You can't leave him out. And Benzema is France's next young superstar and already looking like he'll eclipse Henry. Which one would you leave out in order to accommodate a player who can only function with a lot of service? Everyone knows we have poor crossers, so we need a player who can get the job done on his own if need be, someone who can set up plays by himself. It's not like Domenech can wave a wand and magically make players like Abidal and Ribery into good crossers who can make sure that Trezeguet gets first class service.

Just say France go to the Euros and lose - what are people going to say? That Domenech lost because he only took Henry, Benzema, Anelka, and Cisse (if he keeps scoring like he has been in recent weeks)? If France won't win the Euros, it won't be because Trezeguet wasn't invited along. It will be because of tactical rigidity, something that would render Trezeguet useless anyway.

Originally Posted by talk2smc

and as for Mexes, most people say that when they havent seen him play a single game. (the whole lot about him being sloppy)

I don't watch Roma on a week to week basis and really don't care whether Mexes is in the team or not. But he does pick up more than his fair share of cards - that is what I meant as sloppy. Not that his play is sloppy. Just ask yourself how often France give away penalties? Anyway, I'm only repeating speculation found in forums. Maybe it's Philou's hair.

Like I said, it's more probably a matter of him not working well with the already established defense (Sagnol, Gallas, Thuram, Coupet, Abidal).

Originally Posted by talk2smc

but again i reiterate it doesnt much matter as, no matter how shitty Domenech is, which is alot, he still ends up getting wins a ton. so one can only question him so much i suppose.

Yeah, at the end of the day, he gets results, so if he can win without Trezeguet, then that's fine. Besides the meaningless game against Ukraine and the friendly with Morocco, France rarely concede more than one goal. And they have lost something like only six games since Domenech took over - and that includes friendlies.

[talk2smc]

I know Domenech's record, i watch the French NT. which is what i keep stressing. The guy's an asshole. yes. but he wins. so France keep him.

it is quite apparent that you dont watch any football in Italy, and self admitedly not Roma. Mexes is not sloppy as you say. Roma have got 44 yellow cards in the campaign so far, and one red. thats the 4th best disciplinary record in the league. and Mexes does not get many at all. he currently has 5 and hasnt even been suspended yet due to accumulation.
if you watched him you would know most of his cards come from dissent as he has a fiery personality, and not from his defensive tackling, which is impeccable.

and i certainly was not referring to Anelka. i was speaking of Henry who has struggled to fine form at Barca and has not scored very often.
Benzema's scoring record speaks for it self.
Henry has 6 goals in 16 appearances in La Liga which is decent i suppose, he did however score 7 in 8 appearances for France. but i remember quite a drought from him so i suspected he wouldnt be chosen.
Anelka had 10 goals in 18 appearances for Bolton, added another with Chelsea in the EPL so far, and scored 4 times in 5 appearances for Frances.

in this light i have to admit that i thought Henry scored too little, again im not advocating for Trez, just thought he found net a bit more than those guys, but it appears i was incorrect on that info, so kudos to you.

and i dont agree with your crossers. i cant vouch for Abidal, but Ribery??? he goes on mazy runs, and gets into the box, and may do that better, but i have seen some pretty decent crosses from him thats for sure. he could cross like joe cole for england so be gald you have a player that can put it in the box. but that being said, only Anelka really is a big threat in the air, Henry and Benzema are going to want to ball at feet anyway.

[emma_my_girl]

Originally Posted by Inara47

It's not like Domenech can wave a wand and magically make players like Abidal and Ribery into good crossers who can make sure that Trezeguet gets first class service.

Clichy and Sagna are pretty good crossers

[roma_barca]

Ok, before the thread come to a burn, I would add something :

1. Henry deserves the NT, even if the stats don't speak for him. He is in a new squad, new city, has needed some time and now he is giving a lot for Barcelona. So he deserves, without any doubt. It is also undoubtful that Trezegol didn't give his whole capacity to French NT, or that the NT squad isn't architectally organized to integer him.

2. As written up, Philou Mexes didn't receive a lot of yellow nor red the last 2 seasons. Indeed, he began his italian career with difficulties but it is the responsability of the National coach to look at improvments, no ? And If you do look well how he reduces the skills of the Lyon's strikers in CL last year (for the french who, like me, take some references watching the Ligue 1), there is no doubt about his skills and talent. Then if you want to know more about him, and you begin to watch Roma games in Serie A, you will easily discover that this kinda CL performances, he repeats it almost every week. Take the ball in the air, get the knowledge of defensive placment (in the most efficient european league for learning that), is tackling with virtue*****etc. Then it may be a problem of personality, but I think he can be fit in a team, just give him a chance, damn !

How can Givet, Boumsong, Squilacci can be compared to him ? This is pure non-sense.

And what could he have been learning playing near from Thuram after 2006 World Cup ? That - we will never know... But some kind of a transmission has failed, and it is only due to a mis-management. Sad.

[TheLionLyon]

AS the saying goes, "If it ain't broke don't fix it" and the fact is that since the World Cup, the pairing of Thuram and Gallas have 9 wins 1 draw and 0 losses. Domenech has even had success playing Abidal in the center. I am all for Mexes playing, but right now Domenech just has no valid reason to start him.

[Inara47]

Originally Posted by roma_barca

How can Givet, Boumsong, Squilacci can be compared to him ? This is pure non-sense.

You of course have seen Squillaci enough to decide that he's comparable to Givet and Boumsong?

I won't say that Squillaci is as good as Mexes, but he's still a good player and IMO, had a better year last season than Cris at Lyon. This year isn't the best to judge him, with Coupet, Cris, Muller, and Anderson all getting injured, and with Grosso transparent as well. But he's still a good player and just as deserving of his spot on the NT.


Also, if anyone is interested, here is the A team and the A' team:

Les A face à l'Espagne (A): Coupet, Landreau - Sagnol, Clerc, Thuram, Gallas, Escudé, Abidal, Evra - Toulalan, Makelele, L. Diarra, Vieira (cap) - Govou, Anelka, Henry, Benzema, Malouda, Ben Arfa.

Les A' face à la RD Congo (A'): Lloris, Mandanda - Sagna, Boumsong, Squillaci, Mexes, Givet, Clichy - Flamini, A. Diarra, Nasri, Diaby, Rothen - Briand, Cissé, Ménez.


I'm not surprised that Nasri has been put on the A' team. This year hasn't been going well for him, with injuries and poor form.

Originally Posted by Inara47

I always find it so amusing that Italian NT fans take the exclusions of Mexes and Trezeguet so personally. You're almost think they were Les Bleus fans at heart.

Lol. I'm genuinely thanking Domenech for not including Trezeguet.
I really don't want to see him playing against azzurri at EURO2008.
EURO2000 was enough for me.

[talk2smc]

Originally Posted by Whateverman

Lol. I'm genuinely thanking Domenech for not including Trezeguet.
I really don't want to see him playing against azzurri at EURO2008.
EURO2000 was enough for me.

yea Euro 2000 broke my heart especially since i was in Rome at the time.

but good news for Juve for sure as he can focus solely on Juve